NT female seeks input on AS male's fears

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Thank you for corresponding with me, ToughDiamond. Getting some feedback and context is very helpful to me. I realize I am a visitor here on "the wrong planet," so I never intend to be overwhelming or cause offense. I am learning a lot!

Part II:

It is interesting you use that phrase. Many times over the years, I have described attempting to verbally communicate with my Aspie as "pounding on the glass." He can see me, but he can't hear me. This is why the sex is so important to me too. Bed is the one place I feel like that glass wall dissolves. I've never felt so connected to anyone, on such a visceral, instinctive, human level, as I did with him. He made me feel things I didn't know it was possible to feel.


Yes. I felt the relationship was quite unbalanced. Everything about him struck me as extreme, no middle ground. I didn't understand, but mostly I didn't mind either. However, I hate to say, I understand how other women could say such things. NT couples at that age (20s) spend most of their time together talking or socializing, so that is the expectation. But he isn't much of a talker, and he hates going out. So what's left? All he wants to do is stay in and have sex, which would make most women feel like sex is all she's good for. That he's not interested in her personally, and that he's ashamed of her.

It was different for me because I'd always been a geek. I was used to men being attracted to my brains, so I was quite entertained by the fact that he didn't seem to care. He made me feel like the sexiest woman on earth. It gave me a huge ego, that a stud like him wanted a geek like me. I was insecure that he'd figure that out, and decide he could do better. Recently I confessed those old fears to him. He called me "silly" and a "dork." Wonderful - what a relief.


That makes sense. For a long time, my Aspie weighed which would be worse for the kids: continued fighting, conflict, and turmoil, or splitting up. He's been clear all along that it was all about them; he wouldn't miss her in the slightest. We discussed having an affair, and both decided against it. He wound up having a brief fling with someone else, which his wife found out about, and exploded. Not the best approach, but I believe it was the only way he could think of to put an end to the misery.


Please explain this. Why not? He already has separate relationships with the kids, and with me. I've been clear that I have no particular expectations. But then, you say the conflict between your own needs and your son's often made you feel like you were a lousy parent. I can see how taking on both might make him fear being a lousy parent, AND a lousy partner. (Ha! If only I could show him a movie of my ex.)


I'm not sure what you mean. Can you elaborate/clarify?


Definitely. Very helpful. Thank you!

i may be that he is afraid that if you two take the relationship to a physical level and it fails then he will loose you as a friend... and that shows just how much you mean to him as a friend that he cant bear loosing you... he also obviously has trust issues but i think it may just be he is afraid it wont work out.

taybot97 and libetta, sounds like a lot of fear in general. Fear of how the girl will react, fear it won't work out, fear of losing a friend. Makes sense. He has bouts of depression and/or anxiety. With that level of fear, who wouldn't?

ToughDiamond, I've been thinking about your comment "quantitatively, almost off the scale." Do you mean, you think this guy is extreme, even for AS?

Other than that brief fling, I don't know if he's had sex with anyone since his marriage broke up. He says he's open to casual sex type encounters. But he can't/won't do that with me (good!); and he knows women often falsely agree to casual sex, when in fact they expect more. And homosexuality completely freaks him out. So I doubt he'd risk that kind of hassle right now.

I think his response to the situation has been extreme by general population standards (just a gut reaction)..........but not extreme for an Aspie under the circumstances.
I don't know how good my empathy is here, but stepping into his shoes for a moment, as best I can, his special interest was sex with his partner but she was signalling her disdain for the whole thing. I think you'll find Aspies usually feel hurt if their special interests are invalidated. But I think this is worse........not only is there the Aspie factor, but also to feel sexually invalidated all the time, by a partner, that's extreme pain, I would have thought. I suspect after that, one's brain would associate "relationship" with "pain" pretty tenaciously.

I'm not ignoring your previous posts by the way. Going through some time constraints because of the day job for a day or two, but I'll not drop the ball. I always learn a lot with these in-depth things I get into here...........I'm a slow thinker.

Two things stick out right now that might - or might not - help you understand his situation.

First, routines. With the caveat that every single person on the spectrum is different, I think that our attitude to routines is incomprehensible to NTs, who believe we "like" our routines. Well, yes, we may also like them, but in many cases, they are essential to function. With all the processing issues, it is hard to keep track of what we need to do, and so we build routines. In many cases, they are as easy to "break" as a computer program. If there is not a built in "IF...THEN" statement in that program to cover a certain case, the program will hang. And if you try to restart it, it will hang over the fact the first number of steps have already been done. Etc. So a disruption in routine is a real disruption in function for many of us. This makes things more difficult until a new routine is worked out, and also we are - or at least I am - more anxious during those periods. So no matter how vile his ex is (and she clearly is...) just losing that routine would have effects that have nothing to do with how he feels about her.

Second, the "glass wall" and communication. This is an area I take a huge interest in, since I'm hyperlexic and a writer. And despite those things, there are areas where I run into a "glass wall" where I can't communicate. My wife also tells me there are times my "eyes are blank" and she can tell I just don't get something. I hear her saying the words, intellectually I may know what they mean, but they make no sense to me. Since I'm a writer, this whole area is of huge interest to me. I'm able to get around some barriers either by reading a great deal - to understand - or by writing, to communicate. But there are those areas that still remain impenetrable territory to me. Since it would take a much longer post than I have time for now, I won't go into all the why and wherefores that I've figured out - but if you think it might be helpful, I'll gladly go over them later. (I've often thought, once I figured out the reason, that the specifics of why I am so terrible at music might be informative in a wider sense for understanding at least some of our communication issues, for example.)

Also, if he is willing, I can suggest two things that might - over time, and not a short time - help him with communication issues. Reading fiction (to gain understanding), and learning to write fiction (if he can learn, to communicate better). Which fiction would help him would depend on his personality, but not all fiction is terribly helpful. It would need to make him think, to push his boundaries. It would need to explore areas of life he's ready to explore, but doesn't fully understand. And, generally, the crap in any genre is useless. Hack writers just don't bring enough to the table.

To me it seems that most men with AS fear rejection which is pointless if they reject you don't let it get you down it happens to everyone.

Wanderer, this is FANTASTIC. My Aspie is an "extreme systematizing" hyperlexic too. Our profession requires lots of writing and verbal analysis.

I get that the routines are necessary to function - it isn't just mere "liking." But, although your description is excellent, my understanding is only on an intellectual level. So I do my best to just respect that he needs those routines. Honestly, I wonder how on earth he is re-establishing routines right now - and how he thought he could also work in "sexy time" with me. I feel kind of disrupted and unsettled myself, for various reasons, so I'm not upset that we're back in a silent phase.

The glass wall. I've seen the blank look in his eyes too, when I've said something that just doesn't compute. So I try to follow his speech carefully, and mirror the language he uses. But I'm still way down at the bottom of the learning curve, since he doesn't give me many opportunities to practice. So please do go into all the why and wherefores, when you have time.

I appreciate your suggestion about reading/writing fiction - but I don't believe that is a viable option. As I mentioned, he is context-impaired. I.e., huge vocabulary and verbally precise, but very weak on reading comprehension; inferring information from context; identifying patterns; seeing parallels between situation A and situation B; "connecting the dots;" keeping track of who knows what, when; etc. So he hates fiction and never reads it, because I don't think it computes. I'm a writer too, and once wrote a book for him. He loves it, keeps it close - yet, he's never read it. So I'm quite sure the issue is not willingness, but ability.

It may be a bit premature to think about the long-term right now, but then again, maybe not. So I would welcome any more suggestions you might have!

That women (well people, but this is about AS males and nt females) will be close minded and not think before they talk

Did the ex say he can't be with anyone else after her?
It could be that he took it very literally hence he could be "putting you to one side" to suit her. Since you mentioned that he has only really had a fling.
I feel sorry for the kids being brought up by a drug taker. That is if this still rings true.
Perhaps you should write down in very basic terms how this affects you and how you feel. I think it's possible it will work out for you both.

No, never. Before she threw him out, he told me if it wasn't for the kids, leaving her for me would be "a no-brainer" and he wouldn't have given it a second thought. He was miserable and wanted out, yet did the best he could to keep it all together. Then he went and had that fling. He described it as "an escape," but, as usual, she was physically intimidated by him, and he's never spoken to her again. So he has been putting me to one side all along, at least sexually, but I think that is to suit him and his needs. He's said to me all along that his heart says one thing, while his head says another. He is still "struggling," which is evident, so I've done my best to respect that. (That's why I'm here bothering you guys, instead of him!)


She's "just" an alcoholic now. But yes, I feel sorry for them too. She'd been through rehab and was clean when they met, and he told me he "admired her strength for overcoming her addiction." Naive. I think anyone who gets addicted to heroin and crack to begin with is very weak and self-destructive. Even if they get clean, that impulse often comes out in other behaviors. She's been horrible to him - she misinterprets his AS behaviors as intentional abuse. He doesn't say nice things about her anymore.


The input here at WP has been very helpful to that end. Thank you - I think so too.

Could you suggest good and bad genres?
This seems like it might be helpful to me.

I know you're not asking me, but I'd recommend military sci-fi, such as David Weber's Honor Harrington series (On Basilisk Station is book 1). A Star Wars-type saga about the British "space navy." Complex plots-within-plots, excellent character development, plus lots of British naval history. Taught me a lot about leadership. Wanderer, are you familiar with it?

That's very funny.
I'm actually 40 pages into Ashes of Victory from that series.
It's the book I keep handy at my girlfriend's apartment to read during "reading in bed before sleep" time and other times.
Now that it's more important to me, though, I'll look for audio books.

Hmmm......I'm sure I've drifted away from a lot of women who were interested but didn't know I was. Though looking back, in my first serious relationship I was perfectly clear how I felt about my partner constantly picking career options that reduced our time together. After that I flipped completely the other way, feeling deeply guilty about having been so possessive, if that's what it was. The idea of it being out in the open that I wanted to be with somebody who didn't need me so much, even now I'd feel humiliated about that. Even these days, I couldn't even muster up a "how could you?" when a partner told me that her feelings for me had suddenly collapsed. I couldn't pretend to be happy about it, but I think I'd have sooner died than to let it out in any emotive way, the fact that she'd hurt me. So I could say "sure I'm hurt," but only through a stiff upper lip......I'd have to be able to look as if I were taking it in my stride, saying in effect "I don't care about you either." To do anything else would feel like grovelling, so I play it cool. Of course there's the obvious logical point that if a partner starts planning to do a lot of stuff that will obviously exclude me, then she's made her decision, she doesn't want to share her life with me, so what's the point flogging a dead horse? I don't know if my attitude owes anything to autism or if it's just the normal emotional baggage I can expect from my experiences.


Why was he unhappy about you leaving the country? Were you away for a long time?


I guess most NTs feel threatened by interrogation....me, I just wish folks would interrogate me at all. To me, it means they're on the level, in some sense of the phrase. Sometimes I think the whole world has an ethic to pretend they have unconditional trust. I wouldn't even feel offended if a partner hired a private detective to see if I was having affairs. At least she'd be able to put her mind at rest. Though I agree it can be very tiring if it's happening a lot. Mostly, it's all in the tone. I'd like Columbo to interrogate me, he's nice but he's no fool. If the interrogator got bolshie, that would likely stress me out, and I'd feel inappropriately guilty and lose the ability to convince them of my innocence, but as long as it was fairly relaxed and respectful, bring it on.


Makes sense. He knows it's too soon for him, but the sexual tension doesn't give a damn. Could you be the guardian of sexuality for a while? I mean if he knows you won't let it get sexual, his reason for anxiety would have been removed. It could well be impossible I guess. Just that if you could stabilise things like that for a while and use the time to find out what else you're going to share when you do get together, to build other stuff with each other, catch up with the bonds you had before, update them, meet the kids (good chaperones sometimes). It's a shame if he doesn't like going out. I can be a real stick-at-home, and fear being in new social situations, but if it's small, nice, quiet, short, predictable, safe and kind, it's much easier. And new social situations become familiar with time.


I don't see how that pertains to the main life goal being not letting things get worse, but I was definitely slow to start using those words, and as I've indicated, I'm still skeptical of "don't go," though I can see how in the right context it might save the day. Thing is, I wouldn't dream of walking away without it being necessary, and I'd always try to explain why. And if the reason makes sense, why should they want me to not go? Is this about admitting needs? I suppose I would say "please don't go" if I knew I'd been playing down my dependency needs. But I'd sooner talk all that out before there was any leaving in sight, so it wouldn't be necessary to feel like I was begging.


Oh yes, if we survive at all, we can learn buckets from our relationships, good or bad. Especially communication. And I think we do have a penchant for clarity, because we know how it feels to need somebody to spell things out to us. So that's a plus.


Ironic, eh? Naturally that's happened to me many times. And I usually have trouble raising the matter again later - almost as if I need them to raise it first, so a lot gets lost. If you feel you can, I'd say try to revisit any topics you feel you've developed. That randomness bothers me. Trying to see why he does that, reminds me of lots of times when I've felt afraid of setting a precedent by seeing somebody regularly....it's just so hard for me to back off if I do that....but I thought that was because I've got a thing about abandonment which comes from my insecure childhood.


I never saw it quite like that before. Thanks. It's so easy for Aspies to just dismiss the whole NT thing as dishonest, but if only more of it were explained that clearly, I think it would be a lot easier on everybody. We tend to hate what we don't understand.


We're notorious for not being invitational, I think. Boy do I hear that about reverting to Aspie self. When I was undiagnosed, I sensed I was somehow a social loser, but while forming new relationships I'd feel so supercharged that I'd imagine I'd finally grown out of my ineptitude, only to revert to the mumbly nerd once things had been wrong for long enough. I think I screen people out if they upset me enough, can't look at them any more, they lose that trusting attention, I can't engage with them any more. I've always been a frequent-contact type though. My last partner clearly wanted us to live in each other's pockets, and was very clingy.....I was worried about it, and must have felt some strain because I was quietly wondering if I'd better continue with the day job so I could keep some space from her without pushing her away or seeming to abandon her, but I loved it when she texted me at work, and always hurried home to see her at lunchtime. In 10 weeks we spent maybe 10 hours apart except for the job. But my previous partner had barely been there for me for 16 years, which is why I eventually ended it, so it was probably a reaction to all that deprivation. The new lady was extremely hard work to say the least, but she was there for me.


Or maybe he did notice but wasn't able to express it? I've heard that sometimes the reason why Aspies seem uncaring is that the feelings we get are so strong that we can't handle it, so we turn our backs to protect ourselves. There's some brain-imaging research on Aspies that's purported to back that up. One guy I knew wouldn't contact his mum. On questioning, he said he was afraid she might have died, and he couldn't cope with the risk of phoning and being told that, though she wasn't known to be ill, just old. I've not called people, just because I'm ashamed of having left them alone for so long. I've banished every ex-partner from my life because éx-partners get new partners and it mortifies me to give or receive sexual jealousy.

I don't know how long this post will grow, so I may have to cut it off and come back later to add more in a further post. I'll begin with a basic overview of communication issues. First, though, the disclaimer. I am an individual. Although my thoughts may provide insight, there is no certainty anyone else has precisely the same issues. (You probably already know that, but it's best to spell these things out in case others are reading and learning.)

In spite of being hyperlexic and able to communicate very well in general, there are specific situations where I am literally unable to communicate. Some here use the imagery of a glass wall, which does seem apt to me, but I've always felt it was an issue of my thoughts getting 'knotted up', preventing me from expressing myself in those cases. This was sometimes so bad that, before I understood how my mind worked, I would wonder if I was insane, since I couldn't even communicate under certain conditions.

Those conditions can be broken down into a few basic categories. First, and most severe, are situations where I have had ongoing difficulties communicating in general with a particular person. As an example, there was a family member who was losing their hearing. Okay, I was fine with that. I simply talked louder. But it eventually reached a point where everything I said was met with either "I can't hear you" or "Don't yell at me!". After several years of that, I simply lost the ability to reply to the person; communication had become too complicated and had broken down. Second, there are certain topics which I learned, often as a child, that would result in too much fuss. The inevitable response was to have a harder and harder time discussing these topics. Third, very specific issues where I have learned over time a particular person can't understand a particular point. If it is important enough, rather than giving up, I'll try until I lose all ability to discuss it with them. Fourth, any topic which seemed too awkward in a particular situation would - and still does - prove either awkward or impossible to raise. I've found myself literally willing someone else to be all but telepathic, just because I couldn't say what I needed to. (If you need more details or any of these points aren't clear, feel free to let me know.)

On the subject of calling anyone, in particular, I am very reluctant to do so. This is worse for me because, if I'm writing, any disruption of my thoughts is very severe. So I'm terribly aware of the telephone as a potential irritant, thus I am never sure what the person on the other end might be doing, or if it is safe to call them at that moment. As a result, I can almost never bring myself to pick up the phone and call anyone other than a business (where, presumably, they pay people to be interrupted in whatever they were doing to answer). (This paragraph edited to add:) I see I wasn't totally clear here. Again, it is an issue of my thoughts getting 'knotted up'. I think of calling, I wonder if it is safe to call then, so I hesitate, and since I can't be sure, I wait. But of course it is never possible to be sure. (Reassurances that it is okay don't work very well. The hesitation is still there. Unless there is a definite arrangement that I'll call a specific person at a specific time, it probably won't happen. And, of course, there are the executive function issues, which I'm sure he has, even if he does well in general. Take e-mail, which I am much better at than calling. I still have to think of it, when I'm not distracted, and no matter how much I might want to contact a particular person, if there are other, more vital things I've got to worry about, they may consume all my processing power. Or I'll get distracted when I discover a new message as I plan on composing one to someone. Although I do not consciously calculate this, and have no real control over it, I learned to let all the slack go in the direction where it is safe. If I trust you, and really like you, then I'm actually less likely to get around to contacting you, because I know you'll only get so upset at me when I fail. So those matters that carry real and dire consequences get taken care of first. This is not a deliberate thing, as many NTs seem to think, that I'm choosing to set them aside 'just because I can', but the only way I've learned to cope. And it is instinctive, something I'd have to struggle to avoid even in a single instance. Learning to avoid it in general would be so destructive that I could never do it.

The other two points that come to mind relating to communication are my struggles with music, which although probably not directly relevant, may give some insight into how our minds work, and my experience with fiction. Both of those may better be handled as separate posts when I get the chance, as each of those will be long and difficult to explain in itself. So I'll try to get those posted as soon as I can, before a 'rabbit trail' lures me off on some new scent.

This makes perfect sense to me.