Kissing "goodnight" at the end of the first date

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True, it wasn't as datey as an appointment for a one-on-one social evening, but it wasn't a million miles away from that either. You might have ended up "coupling off" together if you'd shown enough interest in her. There was potential there.

Yes, but would you have invited her at all if you hadn't desired better acquaintance with her?


What I mean is, it's not a question of black or white. The answer is usually a shade of grey. Provided the lady is even vaguely open to a new relationship with a guy at all, romance can't be ruled out, even if she initially doesn't feel particularly attracted to you. My first serious girlfriend, who married me, said that after our first encounter she'd decided not to see me again, but a couple of her friends persuaded her to give me another chance. If they'd not been there, I'd have simply concluded that she'd not been interested. Do you see what I'm driving at? The decision she has to make is the only black-or-white thing about it. When a person decides to cross somebody off their list of possible partners, there is usually at least a grain of doubt. If you were to get stuck with that person in a lift, your behaviour could remove that doubt or it could amplify it.


I don't think it's at all common for friendly banter to happen without at least a tiny spark of romantic feeling, if it's a boy and a girl and they're heterosexual. At that point it's often almost nothing, but the warmth she feels for you is never absolute zero. That includes sexual warmth. Obviously if you start annoying each other then that feeling will hide away, but if you resolve it, the feeling will come back. And the effect on a person of knowing that a potential lover seems interested, shouldn't be overlooked. People warm to people who like them. Just don't overdo it - premature confessions of powerful amorous feelings can be more scary than flattering, and in my experience if somebody is too well-assured of another's willingness to be their partner, they don't value it so much, and are tempted to put the person on hold while they see if there's anything better elsewhere - after all, the besotted one will probably still be there as an insurance policy.


I don't mean that just because she talked to you one-on-one for a long time, she was in love with you. If a woman chats with me for a long time like that, and I'm looking for a partner, I'd always feel slightly curious about what it might be like if we had a relationship. To me, there is no such thing as an ineligible woman, just that some women are less eligible than others, sometimes very close to zero eligibility, but never beyond redemption unless I've had that relationship with them and its turned out bad. Nobody knows what somebody's like in bed until they've been to bed with them. Nobody knows how good a partner a person might be until they are their partner. So we try to forecast, but we know it's only an estimate. Sure, in practice people approximate and assign low eligibility to zero eligibility, but new information can be presented......as with being found guilty in a court case, one can appeal with new evidence and new arguments. You can even do that from jail.


Yes you can make it obvious that your invitation is ultimately sexual, and then if she turns up, there's a close to 100% chance that she's equally interested in that, but I suspect most relationships come about more gradually, beginning as friendly banter and run-of-the-mill social interest, and growing deeper over time as you share more together. I've never done the "Hi sugar" thing. I just make platonic friends with them and take it from there. It's not that I'm hiding my sexual ideas any more than anybody else does (no sexual partner of mine ever bothered to tell me that they fancied me, they just sat there and waited for me to risk making a total fool of myself......Lord! The stress they could have saved me if they'd just been open and honest about their hidden sexual desires for me....but they don't work that way. It seems to be bioiogically hard-wired. But it should have been obvious to me. If they like sex, and they like me (they wouldn't spend much social time with me if they didn't), then I don't see any reason why they would set it in stone that I wasn't sexually acceptable. Mostly I think it's the competition that tips the balance.......if they like another guy more, they'll subtract the other guy's rating from mine and see me as less than zero, but that's a relative zero, not an absolute zero. If that hunky rival makes a jerk of himself just once, my rating will go back into the black, and if he did something rotten that she knows I don't do, I could become Mr. Popular.. Everybody hates Dave Miliband now, but every time Cameron annoys the public, they will love Miliband a little more.

You showed her that you liked her by inviting her to the ceilidh. Would you say that the root cause of "losing" her that night was that you didn't show much interest, or that she didn't show much interest and therefore made you think you weren't wanted, thus dampening your (potential) ardour and your interest in her?


Maybe there was too much distraction for you to get near each other. I wonder what would have happened if you'd asked her on a one-on-one date? I agree you were probably right not to kiss her......too forward at that stage. Though if you approach in a certain way (slowly, no grabbing), then it would have been interesting to see if she backed away........you could then have saved face by pretending it never happened (which it wouldn't have of course). Why not ask her on a "proper" date, and find out whether she's worthy of you?

Relationships are reciprocal; it doesn't matter how much interest I show, if she doesn't show any then nothing will happen. Also I don't see how it can be a date if friends are around.


If I had not been badly crushing on her, yes I would have invited her in order to develop our friendship.


Yes, but unless she mentions it, there is no way to tell whether she is already open to a relationship or not. Also, even if she is, there's still the question of whether she's interested in going out with YOU, which is not the same thing.


Yeah, but you can't do anything unless you are certain the romantic interest is there.


I didn't lose her. Losing her implies I did something wrong to put her off me, I missed an opportunity to ask her out, or that someone managed to 'steal' her from me. I don't think that's the case. The reasons we didn't "couple off" were firstly because there wasn't really an opportunity (no slow dances or time to talk once the dancing started) secondly because she didn't show any interest, and thirdly because I wasn't so keen about a couple of her personality traits.


Not really. It wasn't a question of bad technique but rather a lack of opportunity, no interest on her part, and waning feelings on my part. As for asking her on a proper date 4 years down the line, as I said, even her close friends, including our mutual friend C, have trouble getting hold of her.

I think what's happening is we are approaching the subject from two different angles. For you, you start out with the assumption that she has some romantic interest in you by virtue of you being a boy and her being a girl and both of you being straight. You then build on that assumption during the course of your first conversation with the girl. For me, I start out with no assumptions, other than this person is nice until proven otherwise and would possibly make a good friend. Actually, that's not true. If I fancy her, then I assume she's already taken.**** In any case, we start conversing and I proceed along the "let's be friends" line. If she fancies me, the onus is on her to indicate this fact. I won't be making any moves unless she gives me good reason to do so. From my perspective if she isn't interested then I may as well ask out a brick wall. I'm not really sure what you're advocating. Are you saying I should ask out every girl I meet, or I should date every girl who asks me despite not being interested? That's a serious question, by the way, even though I think those scenarios are silly and would result in unnecessary pain on both sides. Obviously if there was mutual attraction and I recognised her signals that she'd like me to ask her out, then of course I would. I'm just not really sure what the merits are of assuming the possibility is there if she doesn't indicate it is so.

*** Yes, I know this is an unhealthy attitude, and there has to be a better approach. It also happens to be true in my experience that most girls, regardless of whether I want to date them or not, are taken, and I'm not prepared to break up any relationships. That's just immoral IMO. Also, this assumption makes it easier for me to talk with people I'm attracted to as I tend to turn into the classic shy teenager in their presence.

Last edited by CrinklyCrustacean on 05 May 2012, 10:22 am, edited 7 times in total.

most of my dates happened with someone who was already expressing interest in me, so we were not going into it cold. i think it might be different when a couple is meeting for the first time or something (like for online dating). in the case of my experiences, we had already established that there was chemistry and it was just a matter of finding the right moment to act on it.

hahaha i missed this. i like how you repeated THE HYPERLEXIAN APPROACH in block capitals.

***

i also agree with something ToughDiamond was getting at with this statement:


i also see kissing as a gateway sexual act.

Depending on the type of kiss.

At this point, I'd get a chubby from ANY kind of kiss....

I bet you wouldn't from me.

i have rarely had any other type of kiss with a mate. i save my platonic kisses for old ladies and children.

You passionately kiss your platonic friends? Wow, you'd be popular.

i don't kiss my platonic friends. that would feel weird to me. it's probably a cultural thing, as people don't do it here.

i think she meant "mate" as in something other than platonic friend ;)

I'm aware yeah.

Well.......

i need a Canadian-to-English translator.

'Mate' in the UK, Ireland, Australia and New Zealand commonly means platonic friend, pal, and so on.

i didn't even think of that, thanks