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The Big Maybe

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spongy
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01 Jun 2012, 6:20 pm

MXH wrote:
nick007 wrote:
spongy wrote:
rabbittss wrote:
edgewaters wrote:
rabbittss wrote:
The guys wouldn't be awkward if they hadn't been turned down constantly ... This leads to the bitter, angry attitude


The thing is, it doesn't have to. The reason it does is because people externalize their problems because they're not willing to accept self responsibility for some of the problems, or indulge in defeatism so they don't have to. This is a cycle that can be broken - its all a question of the attitudes people choose to take. Frankly its a choice between attitudes formed by logic or emotion.



What you are suggesting is that in order to do better.. the socially awkward guys should.. well .. just stop being socially awkward. Not really much chance of that happening is there? I guess it resolves you of having to come up with a real solution.. much easier to just blame the victim.

Take your Randian self responsibility and sell it some place else, cause I'm not interested.

Can I be honest with you?.

Yes there are two different approaches to this problem. Each of them has its good sides and each of them has its bad sides, Im going to go over them now.

First approach would be to tell you that the world sucks and its not your fault.
The pro of this approach is that it makes you feel better almost instantly.
The con is that the world is still going to suck no matter how many times we complain about its "suckiness" so this good feeling isnt going to last for long because the same thing will keep happening over and over and over and over... and this is a vicious cycle since the world isnt going to change and you are unlikely to decide to change by yourself.
Trust me I spent my time thinking that the everything sucked and I was a victim and I had some people that symphatized with me, the only thing that made me better approaching people of either gender was working on my approach instead of complaining about how my current approach wasnt successful.
It took me a while to see that things werent going to be sorted by themselves but you are more than free to ignore it and go down your own path.

Then theres the "the only element in common in all this events is you so you may need to try to work on yourself" approach.
Cons: working in yourself isnt an easy task, results arent guaranteed, this sort of thing can be shamed upon by society so you may need to be carefull about how you talk about it with...
Pros: If you manage to make some improvements they are likelier to last than the instant feel good and you will start seeing some good changes on how people act around you.


Can you honestly say that you dont see why people everywhere keep encouraging the second approach over the first one?

Another con with it is that if things don't improve much after working on yourself a while; you could start blaming yourself & feel like you are the problem no matter what you do which causes you to have no self esteem & get depressed.


yep. thats wherei am now. Its not somewhere that escape is likely from.

Well Im a bit overly optimistic because Ive been seen some progress lately but I guess its mostly a matter of having luck approaching the right people and things could change for me at any time



rabbittss
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01 Jun 2012, 6:35 pm

spongy wrote:
Alright then.
Im very sorry for whatever is happening to you. It wont change a thing and it´ll keep happening over and over if you keep the same approach but Im truly sorry that this is happening to you


Thanks. I guess.

Honestly at this point I simply am beginning to self identify more and more with Shakespeare's Richard III and Milton's Lucifer... I'm really having to fight the urge to just compulsively ruin stuff for other people out of spite because nothing in my life ever works the way I want it to. So far I've managed to constrain myself by desperately hoping something good will happen and change my mind, but I've been waiting for about the last 15 years or so and nothing has happened yet..

I should have stayed with the BPD girl. she slept around, was a danger to herself and others, and tried to get me to do drugs and buy her alcohol, but at least I got laid occasionally. But you see that's what happened to me. I gave up what little I had, in order to take a risk on something better, on a person who was smart, funny, had tons of stuff in common with me.. seemed to genuinely like me and who I considered extremely attractive.. And she turned out to be an emotional vampire who tossed me away as casually as a kindergartner would an empty juice box when I needed her emotional support during a difficult time in my life.



edgewaters
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02 Jun 2012, 12:09 am

rabbittss wrote:
I guess if being accepting of your lot in life and giving up works for you... more power to you?


Giving up? You mean not chasing my own tail in frustration, in a neverending cycle of failure? Yeah ... I do give that up. It's pointless.

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I should have stayed with the BPD girl. she slept around, was a danger to herself and others, and tried to get me to do drugs and buy her alcohol, but at least I got laid occasionally. But you see that's what happened to me. I gave up what little I had, in order to take a risk on something better, on a person who was smart, funny, had tons of stuff in common with me.. seemed to genuinely like me and who I considered extremely attractive.. And she turned out to be an emotional vampire who tossed me away as casually as a kindergartner would an empty juice box when I needed her emotional support during a difficult time in my life.


Well, that's pretty rough. I can see why you might be in a bad place if this happened recently.

EDIT

I think you only need to make one tiny, minor change in how you think and communicate. It's really easy. If you're talking about this stuff, don't say/think "I go through all this crap with women, so they really frustrate me." Small change here and its actually more precise: "I go through all this crap with relationships, so they really frustrate me"

Women can relate to that and you're not putting them down that way, and you might be surprised to find they have a lot of the same experiences and problems. You'll resonate more strongly with them. I mean, its a such a small change in what you're already doing, and what can it hurt to have more positive relations with more women, at such a small cost? Cost of basically just one word?



Last edited by edgewaters on 02 Jun 2012, 1:52 am, edited 2 times in total.

CrinklyCrustacean
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02 Jun 2012, 1:12 am

spongy wrote:
Then theres the "the only element in common in all this events is you so you may need to try to work on yourself" approach.

Corellation does not imply causation.



edgewaters
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02 Jun 2012, 1:17 am

CrinklyCrustacean wrote:
spongy wrote:
Then theres the "the only element in common in all this events is you so you may need to try to work on yourself" approach.

Corellation does not imply causation.


It's not just correlation though. There may be many correlations, but the way you find a causation, is to find the one factor that is common to each and every situation. "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth." - Sherlock Holmes



spongy
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02 Jun 2012, 1:20 am

CrinklyCrustacean wrote:
spongy wrote:
Then theres the "the only element in common in all this events is you so you may need to try to work on yourself" approach.

Corellation does not imply causation.

It doesnt happen in all cases but its one of the two main approaches when dealing with this sort of things right now because while it isnt the cause for your problems if you are able to do some improvement your problems may become easier to deal with/disappear.



blueroses
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02 Jun 2012, 8:40 am

I don't know, I've had mixed luck with meeting people on WP.

It's ranged from a great experience where we wound up dating for a few months and, although it didn't work out in the end, I still have good memories from it I wouldn't trade for anything .... to a hard experience where I was rejected after one weekend together and then had to watch that member complain on the L&D Forum about how he was sworn off meeting people online because his last experience was so bad. You don't realize how awful you really are until you have to read ish like that about yourself on a WP forum, lol.

So, for me at least, when it's good, it's great and when it's bad, it's particularly hurtful. I guess it just depends upon how big of a risk-taker someone is.



rabbittss
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02 Jun 2012, 10:53 am

edgewaters wrote:
rabbittss wrote:
I guess if being accepting of your lot in life and giving up works for you... more power to you?


Giving up? You mean not chasing my own tail in frustration, in a neverending cycle of failure? Yeah ... I do give that up. It's pointless.

Quote:
I should have stayed with the BPD girl. she slept around, was a danger to herself and others, and tried to get me to do drugs and buy her alcohol, but at least I got laid occasionally. But you see that's what happened to me. I gave up what little I had, in order to take a risk on something better, on a person who was smart, funny, had tons of stuff in common with me.. seemed to genuinely like me and who I considered extremely attractive.. And she turned out to be an emotional vampire who tossed me away as casually as a kindergartner would an empty juice box when I needed her emotional support during a difficult time in my life.


Well, that's pretty rough. I can see why you might be in a bad place if this happened recently.

EDIT

I think you only need to make one tiny, minor change in how you think and communicate. It's really easy. If you're talking about this stuff, don't say/think "I go through all this crap with women, so they really frustrate me." Small change here and its actually more precise: "I go through all this crap with relationships, so they really frustrate me"

Women can relate to that and you're not putting them down that way, and you might be surprised to find they have a lot of the same experiences and problems. You'll resonate more strongly with them. I mean, its a such a small change in what you're already doing, and what can it hurt to have more positive relations with more women, at such a small cost? Cost of basically just one word?


In real life, I tend to use the word "People", as in, " I go through all this crap with people, so they really frustrate me". If I get the chance to talk to any more girls, dunno when that will be as I have no idea where they tend to hang out that I can get to.. I'll try that though.