"Involuntary celibacy"

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Very true, intimacy far more complicated for everyone. The list of factors related to intimacy are endless ranging your personal neurology, to your family background, to how you grew up and to where you grew up. Some of these you can control, some you can't. Government in away does have a hand in it as well but exactly where is unclear.

Dying as a direct result of not eating isn't very common. It's usually comorbids that kill. If you eat very little and fall ill, your body will have a very difficult time regulating normal functions, and whatever the destructive effects of that disease are have an easier time succeeding. Usually, hunger occurs in regions that also suffer from droughts, poor-quality drinking water, malaria and violence between humans. Those can severely affect one's chance of survival, sometimes more so than a lack of nutrients. In the long term, as long as it's not complete intentional starvation, hunger simply deepens the situation.

Actual involuntary celibacy is the result of several factors that also determine much of one's standing in life. Physical conditions can cause someone to be very unattractive and exacerbate their lack of social status, causing them to be even more unattractive. Lack of social skills can make someone unattractive and give them a lack of social status, causing them to be even more unattractive. Involuntary celibacy seems to be the result of cumulative factors that, when above a certain threshold, guarantee a lack of opportunities. In that respect, the causes at the base of involuntary celibacy are similar to hunger.

EDIT: So, in distinguishing between social issues and personal issues, involuntary celibacy is no more or less personal than hunger, and when compared to hunger in a medical sense, it's more of a caused comorbid.

Some have provided very good points but overall there is so much misinformation in this thread.

Involuntary celibacy doesn't always mean there is a lack of interested people you could have sex with, nor does it always mean that you are unable to find partners. It won't be corrected or cured by legalized prostitution, either. There are many involuntary celibates who have had the opportunity to have casual sex, and they turn down the opportunity for various reasons. It's a complex issue, not simply a matter of "not getting laid".

That's true, but the cause of that could very well be, or is usually, the cause of one's inability to find a partner.
Many inherent problems can be corrected by legalizing prostitution. You'd give people a bit of a choice.



Involuntary celibacy is characterised by it being, you know, involuntary.
And the premise of 'involuntary' is 'not by choice'.

There is a gender gap here.

traditionally, and still vary common in modern society, females get to be the pickers and choosers, rejecting the males they do not find attractive or interesting enough for them (unless the females is vary ugly or something is just down right wrong with them).

Where men have to struggle with all the rejections before finding even one that will take interest. in order to get the females to more or less fight to get the males interest for a change the male has to struggle to become some kind of alpha that the females would fight for (looks are not as important to females then that of the mens status).

So with females its more of a voluntary celibacy, where with men its not. this changes mostly in times of war, where mens numbers are greatly decreased to where females can not be as picky.

I don't know. Doesn't this kind of get into the purpose and meaning of sex, then? I don't want to start another gender flame, but I think this is important.

I just had 4 years of a dry spell. As you say, I looked and looked but did not find anyone interesting enough or appealing enough to have sex with. But I probably could have gotten easy, random, casual sex at any point. I probably could also have gotten someone to take a **** on me, and that would be the same feeling as having easy, random, casual sex. Yes, I'm serious. That's how detrimental and emotionally-damaging meaningless sex has been to me. Yet I still desperately wanted and desired meaningful sex, a lot. And I think my lack of it has altered people's social perception of me. {I know, it's like complaining that the caviar at the banquet is old, or something}

Doesn't it matter what sex means to each of us? I certainly felt unworthy going for so long with no one appealing coming my way. And I can only assume it's going to get worse as I age and am selected against, at least for meaningful sex.

We all want meaningful sex, but willing celibacy and involuntary is two different minds sets.

standards of whats of interesting desirable and acceptable change. between being able to be choosy, and starving for affection and not being able to get it.

when you can hardly or rarely ever get it, and your so sick of the rejection, then most anything starts to sound good just to feel human. where the opposite sex does not care, because they already have it better and they are not you, that is, unless your willing to pay for it.

[Edit] why do I have the feeling I just killed another thread?

Unless they're the Croatian government. (This is not a jape at any posters in this thread, it's a jape at the guy from the love-shy forum.)



I can see where hunger, and incel, have similarities and differences. It seems in different ways that you have to be "good" enough or "strong" enough working within the resources in your society and their limitations to be able to either avoid incel, or avoid hunger.

Yet incel is bound to be more common than hunger but isn't nearly as serious to the person affected. That's where there's no comparison between the two and hunger rightfully gets more attention as an issue in society.

Having said that though, I wonder what governments COULD do to address incel in a halfway rational way since they seem to be getting mentioned by different posters? That's assuming any governments were even interested.

Governments wont care unless the Incel had to do with females, because they are the reproductive part of society. where men are mostly disposables used in war, and it only takes one stud to service many females, and its less competition if the males in government lets the other males suffer.

Face it, men are not nearly as valued as females, in most any society, and the ones in control do not care because they most of the time already have what they need because females are attracted to social status and men in power..

Not to mention females are getting to damned picky anyways and so the male populations need thinned out, the less males there are the more happy males and females there will be.

Last edited by AspergianMutantt on 20 Jul 2012, 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

Biologically, this is absolutely true.

As much as that stacks things against people like me, to return to the subject of prostitution, another point against it is I do not see why I should have to pay for something that most others have been able to get for nothing.

I think its sad, when a man hungers for just a little affection just to feel human, and females take advantage of that to better their own ends. demeaning the males own ego in the process when its already as low as it is for them to want to pay for it.

its like I said earlier, females don't have to hunger like we men do because they most always can get, its just not always what they want, when men can hardly even get that.

Men and women are built different, they do not hunger as we do, for them its more of a monthly thing, where men are built to consistently hunger, the ache that never ends. and that ache makes us feel oh so emotionally lonely even though its biological. the depression can be devastating.

Secondly, some people are so ret*d they are not able to find anyone or ever be able to get into a relationship, and I feel for them, if I had such a son or friend I would at least try and find a woman who would let him experience what its like to be touched and loved on, instead of a full life of never having or knowing, yet always hungering. so I feel there is a place in society for prostitution. although if I had my way it wouldn't be prostitution, it would be more like social and emotional counseling and support when the emptiness of our lives starts to get to much to bare, that way its more personal and humane.

But you know what? it may not be fair, but thats just the way it is.

I know that feeling, man. I think to be an INCEL too. Now i own an forum on loneliness:love loneliness,friendship loneliness and same INCEL. Need to grown much we are at very start yet but i plan to use it for all solitudes type. You can see the link on my profile here on WrongPlanet

LoL, Thread killer time! I done it again!
Damn I am good at that!

It is quite serious. Where hunger limits the time you have to find a partner and reproduce, which biologically is your ultimate goal, being involuntarily celibate limits that chance to zero. Basically, if there was a meaning of life, it would be to reproduce, and being unable to reproduce would basically mean your time on this planet should either be spent in service of those who can, or you should be sacrificed by the time there aren't enough resources to provide for the entire population. Expendable.

Speaking rather extremely, being involuntarily celibate means being as close to human waste as one can get.

ok, your post intrigues me. how is this different from "voluntary celibacy" or simply "being picky"?

Based on my personal situation I must agree 100%, HDM. There's nothing like incel, and the lack of opportunity to even interact with females, for killing male self esteem. I feel expendable in the world precisely because of being permanently incel. I know so well that the most chronically incel males would be the ones killed off first if society experienced such grave scarcity that it couldn't function. They'd be absolutely done for. Thankfully society is not at that point for us.

I have a greater challenge to surmount than just incel - that of love-shyness. Dire reactions do sometimes happen to incel and love-shy people. I was curious to find out how often they happen to people on the love-shy forum and ran polls asking "Have you ever experienced violence as a consequence of being incel" and "Have you ever been accused of being a paedophile" which is another dire reaction that can happen.

In spite of the very real misery experienced by these people it turns out that the proportion of people - even incel/love-shy people - who have ever experienced violence or ever been accused of being a paedophile because of it is so tiny that I realised the social problem of incel isn't all that great. Instead, dire reactions and dangers like that are a very isolated circumstance indeed for the incel and love-shy.

Maybe it would take a total basket case situation, indeed the sort where we have mass hunger, to change that in the first place.