smart women equal nice guys

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Totally agree.

But the thing is, a lot of intelligent women are quite temperamental and critical. A lot of them WILL have a divergent opinion, are unconventional, or might say things that don't appeal to the majority of people. A lot of men unjustfully 'bash' the intelligent woman, because her attitudes/opinions are different from his or because she is very idealistic.

What I mean to say is that a lot of men say they like intelligent women, but I don't think this is quite true. Intelligent in their eyes = a woman that agrees with everything they say/think.

Last edited by Cafeaulait on 07 Jul 2013, 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Yes, the fallacy lies with the said women who live in denial. If they have nothing whatsoever (looks, personality, fun to be with etc.) to offer besides their full-time job, a bachelor's degree in English litterature and an IQ of 105, then they're a bad catch--and men should be allowed to reject them.

Should be "allowed"? Again, you haven't established that women live in denial about this phenomenon.

"Then please explain why Sarah Palin, Margaret Thatcher, Gro Harlem Brundtland, Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner, Meg Whitman and Virginia Rometty are/were married women with children."

What about them? First, how do you know these marriages didn't stay together as matters of political convenience? Not all marriages are sustained on love.

I could similarly offer Madonna and, again, Maureen Dowd. Madonna actually had what is known as a "boy toy". How long did that last? And Maureen Dowd can't even manage that, and it's not because she's particularly unattractive.

Second, I'm not sure why you're looking for absolutes when the social sciences work on a spectrum, or continuum.

Third, if these powerful women were divorced or had never been married, their prospects would be statistically diminished, which is the whole point of this conversation.

"Most of these women married their college boyfriend and passed their genes on to their kids."

I'm not sure of your point on this one.

The fact that most men are not hypergamous does not mean that men are intimidated by alpha women. Generally speaking, there are many pretty boy golddiggers--and there are men who are turned on by cougars as well.

Please explain how you know this.

I think you make a good point. Along with intelligence, there has to be compatibility. For example, women can be type A and intelligent, or more reticent and intelligent. And different men will be attracted to each type. For a successful relationship to develop, there must be some ground for mutual attraction.

Intelligence includes: Cleverness divides.

I'm sorry, but thought I'd add that quote from Eckhart Tolle in there. An intelligent person can't be just intelligent upstairs, they have to be emotionally intelligent as well. That might have something to do with the intelligent women being temperamental and critical. I was often described as being the same way. I have found if I was critical with people over their decision making, I would likely scare them away.
Many people often forget the emotional part of things "how did this make me feel?" is an important question that most people I know never ask.

Smart =/= arrogant.

this whole smart,powerful women bring an interesting thing.
Men have no issues with shy,unpopular,social anxiety women.
but men have issues with smart,powerful women.

or maybe smart women just have bad attitude.

Actually, I have to disagree with Tolle, at least for not making a critical distinction. When intelligence is referred to with no modifiers, it refers to general intelligence, of "g". G is defined as the ability to entertain and manipulate abstractions. G is what IQ measures.

Having said this, if we listen to some of the inane statement on politics and other matters coming from some of our most gifted athletes and artists, it become obvious that it is possible to be gifted in one way, but not necessarily in all ways.

Here is one last bit on what I've been trying to convey said by an academic who studies these kinds of things:

"The results of your speed-dating studies, particularly with regard to intelligence and physical appearance, seem to reinforce gender stereotypes. Why do you think this is?

"Well, they are stereotypes for a reason. However, it’s not as simple as, “I avoid all women who are ambitious or intelligent.” It’s about, “Intelligence and ambition is OK until it supersedes my own.” It’s also worth mentioning that these are average effects — there are surely men who do not have this property. I like to think I’m one of them: my significant other is definitely a lot smarter than I am. When her grandmother heard about me, she said, “I told your mother this, and now I’m going to tell you: never let a man think you’re smarter than he is. Men don’t like that.” Everyone laughed and thought this was so anachronistic, but it shows up in our data. Grandma’s views on dating aren’t so dated after all!"

And, if you are interested, here is the entire article:

http://www7.gsb.columbia.edu/alumni/new ... earch-Mate

Kurgan, I don't agree with you, but I do greatly appreciate the civility and aplomb you have shown in this discussion. I wish you well....

If your partner is more intelligent than you... well, that means that you're the dumber in the couple.

In regards to the quote, women are trained to feed the ego of the man? Is that what the quote means? That's what I got out of it.
I'll read the article later. Thank you

In case anyone still cares about the op:
I think it has a good point.

Most people would rather blame others than look at where they may be going wrong so saying that women dont date nice guys/men dont date women with career is easier than saying I have a problem I need to work on before finding a longterm partner.




Wether that problem a nice guy/career woman has is unreasonably high expectations is somewhat likely but belongs to another thread imo

To me those two groups are the same. Like you saying it should be ok for a women to argue, but not a man.

If you don't think so you are a hypocrite.

Smart and powerful are not necessarily associated with each other.

This is because what men look in a relationship.

For a man, a relationship is like 'the warrior's rest'. It's not about men not liking women with divergent opinions, critical and unconventional. It's just men don't like challenges in relationships. And this is not about genders: if a man is gay, the same applies. For a man, a relationship is a time to rest and recharge batteries, not for challenges.

Women usually face relationships as a challenge to build something meaningful. Men face them as this place you can rest after doing something meaningful. It's a very different view that has consequences. Women usually see men as lazy in relationships... and that's true, because for men relationships is this place where you can finally be lazy. Men like challenges, but outside the relationship.

This is not a lack of respect to women. Indeed, for a man, feeling that he can relax and 'be lazy' besides you is a sign of trust. The problem is that we're different, and many women have a completely opposite way of feeling and don't like this very much.

So a intelligent, critical, challenging woman is great.... as a work colleague.

billiscool, the first line is true but the second line is BS, some men might feel those girls are out of their league (and I can understand them), other few men are too macho and would feel their manhood is threatened by them but those aren't usually the type that smart women want anyway.

I knew a lot of smart girls are married now, and they aren't less successful than those women you describe.

Last week I've met an old schoolmate in a funeral, she was a brainiac with non-stoppable 20/20 (equivalent to A++) grades in all subject, she was the first at the whole school. She's now married with 2 kids and she's working as a teacher in reputable school, her husband works in Saudi Arabia.

Also I've met some couple years ago a former schoolmate (I had a crush on this one), she was a A+++ brainiac too, she is a surgeon now and she was engaged to a young senior doctor, I've heard she moved to the US working there with her husband.

Heh, my mother has an IQ of around 160, the highest IQ in the family, and she was the top#1 math student beating all males (she was the only female with 2 other colleagues in the whole math university), she had been working as math teacher, mathematician and school coordinator for decades.

Keep in my mind that our culture is probably more macho than yours and it was way more macho back then.

So those are 3 concrete examples who are extremely smart academically and successful career-wise; I know dozens more who are fairly smart too, have careers and married.


So blah, you guessed it right in the last line, women who say "I am too smart for men to date me" or something like that are usually have a self-grandeur belief, stuck up attitude and *usually* think they deserve only millionaires (I know few like this), it has nothing to do with their smartness or success.

Or they are too hideous and overweight; but this type of women you described usually invest and take care too much of their bodies/looks (because they are too desperate for a millionaire!). But in real life millionaires often only marry millionaires...or young top models.

I'd say that while smart is a very desirable quality, being a stereotypical "nice guy" is not. Boo made a pretty good assessment; perhaps there is a difference between truly smart women and those who feel the need to tell everyone how smart they are, and the latter *could* be compared to guys who feel the need to tell everybody how nice they are.

I think it depends on the man and how smart he is, or if that matters to him. Likewise, if he is content to be less successful. A bad attitude is unpleasant coming from anyone; especially if it comes out of arrogance (even if the arrogance is justified.) I've noticed a relatively equal number of smart men and women being unpleasant, though.

The corporate world does seem to value the behaviour of men and it's possible that woman who are successful there are good at this behaviour (competitiveness, confrontation.) Often people don't want a personal relationship with the same type of person they would enjoy a business relationship with.