Women changing men.

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I change myself when I see a flaw I want changed. I like my belly so I jiggle it. I hate my poor health so I exercise. As for sane men some of us exist but I'm on the clingy and can't let go side >.>

That's not sane.

mouthyb, your list of the things men do is depressing - but also an interesting perspective from the "other side". It's honestly hard for me to believe that this sort of thing would be common, but what do I know? I'm not doubting your experience here, it's just hard for me to understand why it works. It's like the paradox of email spam: everyone hates it and I've never heard of anyone who ever bought anything based on a spam email and yet some people must do it, because if spamming didn't work at all then the spammers would have stopped doing it by now. Similarly, while it's hard for me to see how acting so condescending towards someone would get them to like you (or hell, even have sex with you), I can only conclude that it must work some of the time.

Your explanation of why you would go for "bad boys" was particularly interesting. That would never have occurred to me.

Yes. They're wondering if there are actually any sane women out there at all.

Of course, "sane" is subjective, so this is kind of like the vast majority of drivers thinking their driving skills are above average. Nobody is insane by their own standards of sanity.

This is one of the reasons I particularly would prefer an Aspie girlfriend.

To be honest, the bare minimum for a relationship is 100% faith and trust in your partner - anything less than that and it can't be considered anything worth being in. If there's a partner who would attempt to 'change' their mate without considering the mate's happiness, then it's not worth being in the relationship.

Without this trust, the relationship can and will fail, without exception.

Personally, I find aspies a lot easier to trust than NTs - they certainly don't hide anything behind 'indecipherable body language' or anything like that. If you can be absolutely truthful, then there relationship can do well. That isn't to say there aren't other things, but this is the most important.

FMX: If you think that's depressing, that's the PG rated list of stupid s**t men have done on dates or while they're drunk around me. My most recent favorite is a male friend catching me at a semi-professional meet-up in a bar and spending the evening dragging me off the bar stool into his lap, pawing my tits and demanding to know what shampoo I use so we can finally sleep together (he wanted to wash his sheets in it).... I punched him. A lot. I tried just asking him not to, then fussing at him, then pushing him away from me, but he was drunk and it did not work. Even after I punched him, he was still giggling and pawing my tits. I punch HARD, but he was drunk and ex-military, and I didn't want to punch him anywhere sensitive (like the face) because he was my friend.

At the time, I was trying to talk to a representative for a college organization I wanted to work with. That was the end of our friendship, because his behavior was disrespectful.

I am aware that this sort of behavior is at least partially a matter of conditioning: I'm told men are informed that they must take control of all things, including the little woman. I know that women get conditioned to be flattered by a man who "takes control of things." Unfortunately, this often means that the man knows all and listens to nothing, which is just about the worst way to start a relationship ever.

The man doesn't get to be a person because he has to be superman (know all, see all, be in control of all) and the woman might as well not be there for all the input she gets. How exhausting!

Why not actually be people with one another, people who have faults, make mistakes, and have their own ideas and habits? It's not like I can hide my obsessive nature, the problems I have with eye contact, awkwardness and the fact that public spaces make me really uncomfortable.

I do not respond well to superman and his invisible date. I think many of us here are probably not that way, so dating tips for stereotypes are a poor fit. It's so much better to listen to the person: they'll feel like you think they're important.

As far as expressing attraction, it doesn't have to be all "grrrrrrr I must have you naow". It could be verbal, or even as light as a goodnight kiss with some oomph to it. Hell, I'd take a hug, a verbal statement and a significant glance after a good date (but I'd prefer a kiss), as long as there's some feedback that the other person thinks I'm attractive. They don't have to be totally smooth, either. Experience is nice, but the willingness to try and ability to take direction is endearing.

It may surprise some people to know that ladies also like to get laid--I've dated people specifically for the sex, just the sex, and nothing but the sex. It happens. My preference would be the package deal (respect, willingness to listen, honesty, and a clear intent for sex at some point), but sometimes you just want the sex.

I should also say that a friend brought to my attention that I am sort of permanently stuck in assuming that everyone will default to behaving rationally and in trying to behave rationally myself, so I may not be a good source of advice on what other people do--I automatically assume people have important reasons for their behavior that are knowable, consistent, and able to be analyzed.

It's a sort of.... handicap..... when dealing with people. So take me with a grain of salt.

I have learned early on to expect people to be self serving, manipulative and (c)overtly abusive. So when they are not, it's a pleasant surprise but I have to admit I am always sort of just waiting for it to show up. It always does, either because I expect it or because people are that way - the jury is still out on that one.



Agreed up to a point but many people know they are not exactly sane or that they have cognitive or mental health issues which will make it difficult to cope and interact with others. A lot of people are just batshit crazy under the facade which they have learned to present to the world - just look at the numbers of bipolar and BPD dxs these days. And let's not even start on Narcissistic personality disorder. And then there is ASD. Do you consider yourself sane? (sorry if this is an inappropriate question, feel free to ignore it)

Yes, this is me, too. Even though I KNOW this is a handicap for me, I can't seem to stop doing it. I assume everyone's motives are pure, and that they say exactly what they mean. I am the U.S. Justice System in the flesh - innocent until proven guilty. LOL

I'm glad this was brought up - I'm going to start trying to be initially more suspicious of other people's motives. I think I need them to earn trust first, and slowly. Instead of what I do now, which is trust first, then get betrayed ...

Probably! Mind I didn't say I was that wife.

By "sane" I didn't think you meant "has no diagnoses under DSM", as such. In the context, I thought it meant "not manipulative/abusive/batshit crazy". And yes, I consider myself sane (by any definition).

Sometimes I meet middle aged couples where the wife is a snarky know it all. I think to myself, she must have been stunningly beautiful when she was young. How else would he have fallen for such a horrible person?

I've heard guys tell me this before, I've heard other women say it before as well. And I may be interpreting the same messsage from Mouthyb, so correct me if i am wrong in my interpretation.

1. Even if you don't tell the girl your intention right away, if you can show by action that you are interested and attracted to her, she is more likely to say yes to a date when you find the courage to just ask

2. Talk to them and listen to them as they need you to. Its fundamental in being empathetic.

3. (this is just my own opinion and some interpretation). People will play games and assume that others know what the game is. Clearly, men do this based on what I have read. I have met women who play games as well. But why do people play games? We will never find a clear answer to this, but it usually makes me feel confused and miserable when I'm engaged in such a game (doesn't matter who initiated it.)

It's my anxiety and yeah it's sane sorry you don't think so. It's a problem not a stalker issue. I let go perfectly fine so long as I keep my anxiety in check and see the world for the bigger picture.

Given your rather stringent definition of sane, I'd wonder if there are actually any sane people out there.

Me too.

Well I'm definitely not sane. Insanity is like blondness: Ya have more fun.