Why is "forever" always supposed to be the goal?

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appletheclown
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06 Feb 2014, 9:35 pm

KWifler wrote:

Then again, there are the people who only have one-night preferences who meet someone who only has forever preferences, and they both clearly want each other and get along well enough, but the one thing is that their relationship preference doesn't match. If the forever person gives in to the one-night person, the forever person has just been betrayed, but if the one-night person gives in, there is the very high probability of cheating and divorce.

Of course it's not that black and white. There are several possible connections between brain chemistry and genetics to relationship duration preference as well. Then there are the people who were brainwashed into wanting a forever relationship who aren't emotionally stable enough to keep a one-week or one-month relationship who may forever be in denial about their biological preferences. There are also many one-night people who feel their hearts ripped out with every one-night relationship they have, they may biologically have the forever preference, but they're brainwashed into only having one-night relationships.

Then there are the people who have had a lot of really bad encounters, and it doesn't matter what type they had or if it's their biological preference, they won't be fulfilling their relationship dreams. They poison the pot for everyone else, but it's good to have cautionary tales so that people will be more careful with such things.

I'm not actually traditional at all, my reason for wanting a forever relationship is because I plan on living until all support for life in the universe runs out. Maybe that's immature or unrealistic, but that's how I am. I also crush and love really really hard, so I'm not going to take any chances, I'm going to test and analyze a potential partner for months, maybe years, before getting physically or emotionally attached.

Also, there's the problem with marriage being seen as a prize. Sure, love is great, and finding someone you are compatible with is great, but humans are wired with the reward seeking behavior, and that is different from behavior after the reward is reached. There is a long standing and well supported theory out there that this behavior is what causes short term marriages. People pay attention to their "prize" and do all sorts of crazy things they wouldn't do if they weren't seeking a prize, then they get married and think the test is over. It isn't. The situation is actually the same as before the marriage. Both are the same person, but now you get to see what they're like when they don't see each other as a prize. Once you have that trophy, you put it on your wall and ignore it mostly, maybe shine it up from time to time and put it back up on the shelf.

Your view on marriage is like a hypnotic pile of garbage. Your making fun of people who have successful marriages without even bringing it up. Teach me how!

Any person who tells someone like you the reason they want to get married is because of the adventure afterwards probably wants to s**t on your doorstep. You are so pessimistic. People who prefer marriage over sexual escapades have trancended them, so yes it is because you are immature.

When you have a pretty wife in your house you take her hunting, to Japanese samurai exhibitions, help her pick out awesome blinds for your windows, pick the color of your nursery, make sure the sink doesn't leak anymore, shut the damn dog up so your wife and child can sleep by playing with it. Take her to boxing matches and let her be the loud one, go on second honeymoons and dump kids at gmas and gpas, learn a new language, adopt a lituanian kid, watch black lagoon with your wife 10 years into your marriage, cook her stuff sometimes, get her a motorcycle, sell that and get her a van, invest in stock and lose it on spoiling the kids, teach your kids bad words. Dat s**t is beast, how can anyone be repelled by such badassery?

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Casstranquility
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07 Feb 2014, 1:58 am

Onewithwings wrote:

What is wrong with being with someone while you both want to be together and eventually parting ways when it's over? I mean, breakups are generally no fun, but a lot of people seem to believe that the only reason to be together at all is if you know or at least think that you will one day want to be with that person for the rest of your life...

I don't see anything wrong with that philosophy for those who agree to it, I'm sure it can be a healthy one. No one knows what is going to happen down the road, let's just go with this and see where it leads. One day it might be over, if people saw that in the beginning, there might not be quite as much frustration and pain. Both parties should know what they are getting into. I'm not sure I can commit to forever myself, I don't know how long forever is. Is that supposed to be beyond death? I don't know what happens after death, so how can I agree to that?

On the other hand: Till death do us part is a goal that people make because they believe in long lasting partnerships. Supportive, trusting, loving, I'm with you, I'm behind you, don't worry about doing this thing called life on your own, cause you're not alone. I believe in strong relationships, those that are built over the years. Flexible but not breakable. It is on such a foundation that one can build the rest of one's life. If my boyfriend and I agreed to be with each other until it didn't work anymore, would we bother to work on anything? Would we feel safe in the relationship? He thinks I'll leave him. I think he'll leave me. We're not going to feel secure, who would we lean on? Tell all our secrets? Is there another reason for such a relationship? I read once that a woman separated from her boyfriend after she became healthier because their relationship had been based upon her illness. He was right for her through that trial but couldn't move with her into her new life. I see how that could be reasonable. But, I personally want to believe that if a person is right for me now, and my boyfriend is, that we will grow with each other and continue to be the right person for each other. There are plenty of other people in the world for friends, but does one have to be ready to let go of someone just because they don't seem to fit anymore? Wouldn't that be giving up?
I don't know, just things to think about.

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Onewithwings
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07 Feb 2014, 5:25 am

I don't think I would use the word "brainwashed" but maybe "conditioned" through cultural expectations and experiences in previous relationships. "forever" and "til death do us part" are the cultural Holy Grail, but might not be a personal goal of a certain individual. OTOH, I am sure some people get discouraged by relationships not working out and basically quit trying because they feel defective or undeserving in some way.

I have actually found that when I enter a relationship with acceptance of the fact that it is time to be spent with someone I care about, and not worry too much about the future, I am more willing to be open and honest and work on things, because I am not operating in fear of doing something "wrong", we just experience life together. This can work in marriages and long-term relationships too, but just for me personally I like to operate without the pressure of "holding it all together"... it does require extra communication, and I'm learning that as I go along.

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The_Face_of_Boo
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07 Feb 2014, 5:54 am

For a long term or marriage: If it lasts forever then it lasts forever, if not then it doesn't.

As simple as that.

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07 Feb 2014, 9:46 am

I don't think anyone is saying that "forever" is "supposed" to be the goal, but I can see a simple logical reason why it is:

1) When entering a relationship people want it to be good (whatever that means to them).
2) If something is good people want to keep it.

So "a goal of 'forever'" seems to me like simply another way of saying "a goal of a good relationship". Even if you don't think about it, it's an implicit goal, because why would anyone want something that is, by their own definition, not good? Am I missing something in the question? It seems too simple.

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Onewithwings
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07 Feb 2014, 9:55 am

No, it is simple, I didn't mean anything profound by it. This was more a question of curiosity.

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buffinator
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07 Feb 2014, 10:32 am

Onewithwings wrote:

No, it is simple, I didn't mean anything profound by it. This was more a question of curiosity.

because once you achieve a goal you are done and left saying "so what now." If your goal is 2 years you can achieve it and then you are just in this limbo state. What if after 2 years you still like them, but they have been planning around this arbitrary 2 year limit?

You can't not be profound about the "forever" ideal, because the entire point is that it is a myth. The reason why forever is the goal is because 2 years is comprehensible and achievable but forever requires magic. Young girls are taught that love is literally magic and so this plays into the pathology. Snow white's magic kiss, the magic slipper, beauty and the beast, these films do not create the myth, they merely cater to it. I would say the myth is religiously based but it actually seems to be fairly fundamental and region-less.

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leafplant
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07 Feb 2014, 11:09 am

^ this
Actually the reason is economic. Marriages have always been about money and holdings and power and only very recently in human history have they become about love. But the fundamental of joining property and assets is really still the basis of the marriage unit and the consequent joint management of those assets.

Love. It is a heart beat.

anna-banana
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07 Feb 2014, 12:59 pm

FMX wrote:

word!

I'm against adding the dimension of time to a relationship *at all*. the goal of loving in the present moment is enough.

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yellowtamarin
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07 Feb 2014, 6:27 pm

FMX wrote:

Except that...

"Nothing gold can stay"

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08 Feb 2014, 7:51 am

Apparently some study says that people who get married experience an increase in their happiness level - but only for the first 2 years: http://lifehacker.com/this-infographic- ... 1518305669 So according to that, to achieve maximum happiness we should get married ASAP, then after 2 years get married to someone else, and so on... Oh, and definitely avoid having kids!

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nick007
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08 Feb 2014, 11:15 am

FMX wrote:

Oh, and definitely avoid having kids!

There's a saying I heard that goes something like- "Men who get married are happier because they have a woman to take care of them but women who get married are more stressed from having to take care of the men".
That saying is kind of true with my parents. but I never heard the saying from them.

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Onewithwings
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08 Feb 2014, 6:08 pm

I'm not saying I put an arbitrary limit on my relationships. I don't say "Oh, I'm only going to date this person for 6 months" or anything like that.

I suppose my point could use rewording.

I am curious why the only relationships considered "successful" relationships are those that last til death do us part. Say you are together for years and happy, but for whatever personal reasons, decide to go your separate ways. Is that relationship a "failure" simply because it ended? I just think it seems like such a negative way to view relationships. Someone might be perfect for you at a certain point in your life, but people grow apart, have different goals, and may want to lead separate lives at some point. It seems a little depressing to me to even try to date if I consider my past "failure" rate to be 100%.

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yellowtamarin
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08 Feb 2014, 6:16 pm

People have failed marriages, because they have made that commitment to make it last forever and have failed in that. But if you don't make that commitment, I don't think a relationship that ends has to be a failure at all.

I would say that I have unsuccessfully maintained one of my relationships for as long as it could have lasted, that to me is a failure. We didn't part ways because we grew apart / wanted different things / anything like that. We should have tried harder. But my other relationships ended because they should have ended, and those are not failures, just experiences, IMO.

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08 Feb 2014, 6:21 pm

Onewithwings wrote:

Because people put a great stock on things that endure. They are not very bright however and forget to examine whether endurance is an appropriate measure of success for everything.

You should consider success whatever personally makes it worth while for you. I cannot even imagine being with one person for 20 years (or even ten), let alone till death do us part (unless we get married when we are both in our 80s) and I have always known this so for me there was never a realistic prospect of wanting to be with someone forever and ever although, as you say, Disney and various Abrahamic religions want us to adopt that as our overall goal in life.

But anyway, as I have already pointed out, the social expectation is mostly based on the economic issues, and is not really concerned with love, in fact, within longevity of the marriage, the duty is expected to trump love as it is widely recognised that people will get tired of eachother and want to get off with someone else. http://www.livescience.com/37777-histor ... riage.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage

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08 Feb 2014, 8:15 pm

leafplant wrote:

Onewithwings wrote:

Baulderdash!! ! Why do you think break ups even feel bad at all?!? Tallyho, I'm into casual sex now cause I'll never have a good marriage anyways, now to find a lady who wants me...yah right. Like it will be because I need money, nor am I a sugar daddy. Most people love each other because they want money. <=If that was the case I'd might as well be a Communist. Here have my money person who thinks my money is shinier than his.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZjgWWjXDIQ[/youtube]

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