Men suffer more emotional pain from failed romance

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Laddo
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12 Jul 2014, 2:21 pm

Whaaaaaaaat... are you serious? Damn it Boo, how do you do it?


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vickygleitz
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12 Jul 2014, 4:52 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
vickygleitz wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
vickygleitz wrote:
I think being a man sounds so difficult.


Vicky, I always wondered about you, are you a man in disguise trolling women here? :lol:


Are you serious? I have never trolled anyone. And I am a woman who has always loved being a woman. And I love my "sisters" as well. But I know that my life has been easier, and I feel that I have been afforded many more opportunities and privelages because of it. Being Autistic and female has been so hard at times, but I have [usually] muddled through it pretty well. If I were a man, I don't see how I possibly would have made it. If anyone wants specifics, I would be glad to give some.


Ok Sir,... oops, I mean Madame, go ahead with the specifics.


I am female. I am not a troll. And yes, my feelings are deeply hurt.



Laddo
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12 Jul 2014, 6:42 pm

Vicky, it is quite unusual for someone to claim women have it easier than men when generally they don't. That's why people suspected trolling.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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12 Jul 2014, 6:49 pm

Trolls can be cute tho, remember the toys?



vickygleitz
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12 Jul 2014, 7:04 pm

I have made a few long posts which I seem to "lose" whenever I try to post them, so I will make my response in several snippets [plus I need to stop in a few minutes to make dinner]

I'm not sure where to begin,because to me,this is all beyond obvious.

Still, a woman without money can marry a man who is wealthy. Other than a few "gold digger" comments, it is fairly well accepted. The reverse is not true.

Still, if a woman gets pregnant,it is totally her decision whether or not to abort the fetus,even if the man already considers it his baby.



The_Face_of_Boo
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12 Jul 2014, 7:19 pm

I totslly agree with the marriage part, and it didn't change much in our generation.
Homelesseness is more common among single men than women for that very reason.

And stats show that most millionnaire women want more millionnaire men (ooo they are afraid to die from hunger lol).


but this is so off topic.



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12 Jul 2014, 7:50 pm

My husband just saw the title of this thread and told me a joke. A little boy shows his parts to a little girl and says " Look what I got. You don't have one of these." Little girl lifts up her dress and says "Look what I got. My mom says with one of these, I can get all of those I want."

And it's the truth. A woman who wants a new guy in her life, just needs to go anywhere and basically just pick one out, while men have to worry about almost certain rejection.

Men are more likely to take their own lives because of a broken heart.



tarantella64
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12 Jul 2014, 7:52 pm

It is hard for guys. Largely because guys make it hard for other guys to exist as themselves.

I was talking about this stuff with the women's-center director the other day. It seems to me that one of the major results of the feminist movement that began in the 1960s is that there is now a tremendous multiplicity of ways in which it's fine to be a woman. There is no woman uniform. When I leave the house, no one's scandalized if I'm not wearing makeup and my legs aren't shaved. No social deaths occur if a bra strap shows. Pudgy girls are allowed to wear whatever the hell they want. Shave your head, knock yourself out. A woman can be a mother, or not; married, or not; straight, or not; sexual, or not; career-driven, or not; and we don't generally ostracize each other for these variations anymore outside "traditional" and largely religious-fundamentalist communities.

The same is not true for men. Whose fault is that? Well, that's a little complicated, I think. Obviously, if it's going to change -- if men are going to stop attacking and policing each other's masculinity, beating the s**t out of each other for not conforming -- men have to be the ones to make that change, and it has to be for some positive reason, rather than a "don't do that". But it's true that men have been caught flatfooted...okay, it's 50 years' worth of flatfootedness, now, but even so, women did have a positive reason to break out of a bad situation, and men haven't had a reason to do anything but react. And it does suck to be in the position of having to react. My friend explained it like this: to be a man is not to be a woman. (There's something to it. If you listen to boys' and men's insults for other boys and men, it's to do with being like girls and women.) But over the last few decades women shrugged and said "not playing" and just went wherever they pleased on the gender spectrum. Which left men with a problem, if "masculine" was going to mean "not feminine". So y'all have a choice between inventing something new (while freaking out about abandoning a rage-defended tiny little "THIS IS MALE" space), which would be cooperative and, by THIS IS MALE standards, pussylike, or...just carrying on beating the s**t out of each other, I suppose.

All this stuff about "society demands"...I think those of you saying these things aren't paying very careful attention. Women take up with broke, ugly, not particularly talented or funny dudes every day of the week. Criminals, for god's sake. '02 Corolla drivers, non-job-havers. Guys who can't get it up. I don't think it's women telling you you have to be a rich musclebound dude with a swank car in order to get a date.



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12 Jul 2014, 7:56 pm

I thought we were discussing that I might be a male troll because of my defense of men

Autistics,both males and females, have a 96% chance of being sexually asaulted, but by so many threads here,you would never know that males are as likely to suffer this abuse. Plus, there is more sympathy for a woman who this happens to and much more support.

Battered men and women, same thing.



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12 Jul 2014, 8:11 pm

vickygleitz wrote:
Autistics,both males and females, have a 96% chance of being sexually asaulted, but by so many threads here,you would never know that males are as likely to suffer this abuse


Can you cite this statistic? It seems ridiculously high


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vickygleitz
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12 Jul 2014, 8:32 pm

tarantella64 wrote:
It is hard for guys. Largely because guys make it hard for other guys to exist as themselves.

I was talking about this stuff with the women's-center director the other day. It seems to me that one of the major results of the feminist movement that began in the 1960s is that there is now a tremendous multiplicity of ways in which it's fine to be a woman. There is no woman uniform. When I leave the house, no one's scandalized if I'm not wearing makeup and my legs aren't shaved. No social deaths occur if a bra strap shows. Pudgy girls are allowed to wear whatever the hell they want. Shave your head, knock yourself out. A woman can be a mother, or not; married, or not; straight, or not; sexual, or not; career-driven, or not; and we don't generally ostracize
each other for these variations anymore outside "traditional" and largely religious-fundamentalist communities.

The same is not true for men. Whose fault is that? Well, that's a little complicated, I think. Obviously, if it's going to change -- if men are going to stop attacking and policing each other's masculinity, beating the sh** out of each other for not conforming -- men have to be the ones to make that change, and it has to be for some positive reason, rather than a "don't do that". But it's true that men have been caught flatfooted...okay, it's 50 years' worth of flatfootedness, now, but even so, women did have a positive reason to break out of a bad situation, and men haven't had a reason to do anything but react. And it does suck to be in the position of having to react. My friend explained it like this: to be a man is not to be a woman. (There's something to it. If you listen to boys' and men's insults for other boys and men, it's to do with being like girls and women.) But over the last few decades women shrugged and said "not playing" and just went wherever they pleased on the gender spectrum. Which left men with a problem, if "masculine" was going to mean "not feminine". So y'all have a choice between inventing something new (while freaking out about abandoning a rage-defended tiny little "THIS IS MALE" space), which would be cooperative and, by THIS IS MALE standards, pussylike, or...just carrying on beating the sh** out of each other, I suppose.

All this stuff about "society demands"...I think those of you saying these things aren't paying very careful attention. Women take up with broke, ugly, not particularly talented or funny dudes every day of the week. Criminals, for god's sake. '02 Corolla drivers, non-job-havers. Guys who can't get it up. I don't think it's women telling you you have to be a rich musclebound dude with a swank car in order to get a date.


and I agree with much of what you say. the only thing I have a problem with, is that I think it is unfair to put most of the blame for this situation on men.

And I think it is super unfair to be accused of being a male troll by people I sortof thought were my friends, merely because I sympathize with what so many males are going through right now.

I hate ANYONE to hurt. But men are the ones more often left alone in their pain. This was NOT the case when I was much younger, and, I am sure I would have been accused as being a man hater back then.



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12 Jul 2014, 8:38 pm

Oh, and as far as what tarantella said, I agree that men themselves also need to make some changes to make this transitional period less difficult, just as Autistics need to take action to make positive changes for the Autistic community.

I am neither a man nor a troll.



tarantella64
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12 Jul 2014, 8:48 pm

vickygleitz wrote:
I thought we were discussing that I might be a male troll because of my defense of men

Autistics,both males and females, have a 96% chance of being sexually asaulted, but by so many threads here,you would never know that males are as likely to suffer this abuse. Plus, there is more sympathy for a woman who this happens to and much more support.

Battered men and women, same thing.


Actually not the same thing. Not to minimize what happens to men, but when women are assaulted by men, they're far more likely to wind up in the hospital or dead than the other way around. And the deaths due to DV are overwhelmingly murders of women, not men. >90%. Again, not to minimize psychological trauma, but you can recover from psychological trauma, or at least mitigate it; you don' t recover from blindness, paralysis, acid attacks, death.



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12 Jul 2014, 8:59 pm

vickygleitz wrote:
tarantella64 wrote:
It is hard for guys. Largely because guys make it hard for other guys to exist as themselves.

I was talking about this stuff with the women's-center director the other day. It seems to me that one of the major results of the feminist movement that began in the 1960s is that there is now a tremendous multiplicity of ways in which it's fine to be a woman. There is no woman uniform. When I leave the house, no one's scandalized if I'm not wearing makeup and my legs aren't shaved. No social deaths occur if a bra strap shows. Pudgy girls are allowed to wear whatever the hell they want. Shave your head, knock yourself out. A woman can be a mother, or not; married, or not; straight, or not; sexual, or not; career-driven, or not; and we don't generally ostracize
each other for these variations anymore outside "traditional" and largely religious-fundamentalist communities.

The same is not true for men. Whose fault is that? Well, that's a little complicated, I think. Obviously, if it's going to change -- if men are going to stop attacking and policing each other's masculinity, beating the sh** out of each other for not conforming -- men have to be the ones to make that change, and it has to be for some positive reason, rather than a "don't do that". But it's true that men have been caught flatfooted...okay, it's 50 years' worth of flatfootedness, now, but even so, women did have a positive reason to break out of a bad situation, and men haven't had a reason to do anything but react. And it does suck to be in the position of having to react. My friend explained it like this: to be a man is not to be a woman. (There's something to it. If you listen to boys' and men's insults for other boys and men, it's to do with being like girls and women.) But over the last few decades women shrugged and said "not playing" and just went wherever they pleased on the gender spectrum. Which left men with a problem, if "masculine" was going to mean "not feminine". So y'all have a choice between inventing something new (while freaking out about abandoning a rage-defended tiny little "THIS IS MALE" space), which would be cooperative and, by THIS IS MALE standards, pussylike, or...just carrying on beating the sh** out of each other, I suppose.

All this stuff about "society demands"...I think those of you saying these things aren't paying very careful attention. Women take up with broke, ugly, not particularly talented or funny dudes every day of the week. Criminals, for god's sake. '02 Corolla drivers, non-job-havers. Guys who can't get it up. I don't think it's women telling you you have to be a rich musclebound dude with a swank car in order to get a date.


and I agree with much of what you say. the only thing I have a problem with, is that I think it is unfair to put most of the blame for this situation on men.


Well...if it's men being horrible to other men who aren't stereotypically Manly Men (tm), all the way to beatings and murder, bullying them, etc., then how is this anyone's fault but the men's? It's not as though women are telling them, "Hey, please go attack that effeminate-looking dude."

I know I've told this story before, but the thing that really shook me, when it comes to this stuff, was a story in NYT about this little boy who'd informed his parents that he was a girl. He'd always wanted to dress like a girl, he hung with the girls, and the school issue wasn't that he showed up wearing pretty dresses, but that he wanted to use the girls' bathroom. Eventually the school people shrugged, started calling the child "she", and said okay to the bathroom request. The comments section on this story totally exploded in rage and viciousness directed at a six-year-old child and the parents. Unbelievably vicious, horrible, threatening comments. All from men, grown men. Women? If they bothered to comment, were either supportive, applauding all parties for how they handled it, or worried about how things would go when the child reached adolescence and still wanted to use the girls' room.

I saw this go on in my daughter's playgroup, when she was tiny. Beautiful little boy, same story. His mom rolled with it, he came in with the dresses, the girls accepted him as a girl, the moms were fine with it, off they went. No ostracization or bullying there. But also no men invested in making sure all penis-bearing humans behaved in narrow and particular ways.

When I think about how my daughter would react now to a transgender girl in her class, I'm guessing she'd have no particular reaction beyond shrugging acceptance and maybe -- just maybe -- some wondering about her own gender identity, but not likely much. I'm guessing though that she'd also accept the boys' savaging of the TG girl, believing it wasn't right but that the TG girl should've known that this would happen, because this is how boys are. That part can change.



vickygleitz
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12 Jul 2014, 8:59 pm

Laddo wrote:
vickygleitz wrote:
Autistics,both males and females, have a 96% chance of being sexually asaulted, but by so many threads here,you would never know that males are as likely to suffer this abuse


Can you cite this statistic? It seems ridiculously high


Please just google it as I am way computer challenged. Of those 96% who have been sexually abused, 40% have gone through it ten times or more. THAT is one reason I get upset that there are so many posts that women are being abused by sexists on the forum than just staight Autistics are being sexually abused.

After you google 96% of autistics sexually abused, you might consider googling autistics 28 times more likely to attempt suicide. And the rate of unemployment, that is all over the internet. And that is one more reason I come to the defense of anyone being attacked here, male or female.

And if I spend a night PMing with someone who is looking for a reason NOT to take their life, and the next day there are com
parisons between said person and a recent mass murderer,I'm going to come out swinging. Not like a man. Like a mother bear.
That is a nurturing mother thing. Not a male troll thing.

I am not having a good day. Thank you all for making it worse.



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12 Jul 2014, 9:01 pm

tarantella64 wrote:
It is hard for guys. Largely because guys make it hard for other guys to exist as themselves.

I was talking about this stuff with the women's-center director the other day. It seems to me that one of the major results of the feminist movement that began in the 1960s is that there is now a tremendous multiplicity of ways in which it's fine to be a woman. There is no woman uniform. When I leave the house, no one's scandalized if I'm not wearing makeup and my legs aren't shaved. No social deaths occur if a bra strap shows. Pudgy girls are allowed to wear whatever the hell they want. Shave your head, knock yourself out. A woman can be a mother, or not; married, or not; straight, or not; sexual, or not; career-driven, or not; and we don't generally ostracize each other for these variations anymore outside "traditional" and largely religious-fundamentalist communities.

The same is not true for men. Whose fault is that? Well, that's a little complicated, I think. Obviously, if it's going to change -- if men are going to stop attacking and policing each other's masculinity, beating the sh** out of each other for not conforming -- men have to be the ones to make that change, and it has to be for some positive reason, rather than a "don't do that". But it's true that men have been caught flatfooted...okay, it's 50 years' worth of flatfootedness, now, but even so, women did have a positive reason to break out of a bad situation, and men haven't had a reason to do anything but react. And it does suck to be in the position of having to react. My friend explained it like this: to be a man is not to be a woman. (There's something to it. If you listen to boys' and men's insults for other boys and men, it's to do with being like girls and women.) But over the last few decades women shrugged and said "not playing" and just went wherever they pleased on the gender spectrum. Which left men with a problem, if "masculine" was going to mean "not feminine". So y'all have a choice between inventing something new (while freaking out about abandoning a rage-defended tiny little "THIS IS MALE" space), which would be cooperative and, by THIS IS MALE standards, pussylike, or...just carrying on beating the sh** out of each other, I suppose.

All this stuff about "society demands"...I think those of you saying these things aren't paying very careful attention. Women take up with broke, ugly, not particularly talented or funny dudes every day of the week. Criminals, for god's sake. '02 Corolla drivers, non-job-havers. Guys who can't get it up. I don't think it's women telling you you have to be a rich musclebound dude with a swank car in order to get a date.


I just don't see it--the men trying to enforce traditional masculinity, It seems like men are open to be less masculine these days than they have been in the past. Of course, I have never been masculine and never really liked hanging out with guys or understood guys. The only guys I know who are hyper-masculine are guys that are poor or working class. Academic types or rich types don't seem to care as much about traditional masculinity. Rural areas are also more prone to strict gender roles than are urban areas.

Men aren't a monolith, just like women aren't a monolith. There is no group known as men. We don't have a club that we belong to with monthly meet-ups to discuss what it means to be masculine. There are only humans who happen to be born male.