Loneliness

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"Yeah, I took Art in Grade 11 and I absolutely loved it, but my art teacher...well, I won't say that she didn't encourage me and let me draw what I wanted, but she did have a bit of bias that I found slightly irritating. For instance, one time she said that you should never paint or draw from memory, and I spent the rest of the class trying to figure out how I could find a unicorn. In the end I just gave up and painted from memory/imagination anyway."

Yeah, the art kids at my school mentioned that as well. Art assignments usually take ages I hear, and after all that hard work they were essentially told by the art teachers "you have to change this and this this this this and that" when turning it in. Some were brought to tears because of all the stress. And the art kids I hang out with have said their grades have all dropped regardless of effort.

"Well, I need to finish High School and then possibly university before I can go anywhere. Although, I think there's a school in New Zealand that has a creative writing programme somewhere...except that moving there would also mean saying goodbye to most of my immediate family and my dad, so...The annoying thing is that I know exactly what I want but I'm not sure how to get there. Maybe I just need to relax a little and try not to be a perfectionist all the time"

New Zealand's still a reasonably sized nation, so yeah there would be.

What do you mean when you say you're a 'perfectionist'?

It just sounds more like you have goals/dreams and that's normal I would think. Do you just think that you're thinking too far in the future, too far ahead if you know what I mean? A bit too focused on it to the point that you focus less on the present? Because that can be me. I try to live in the 'now' and the present but it happens to me. I'm ambitious and goal-oriented, but I do think about how I will get to my goals. Just this obsession, this seemingly desperate longing for the future and all the positive things it would bring.

At the same time I think some teens think over-optimistically and overly-positive about graduating high school and the future: 'Yay! We're all going to graduate, then get jobs and have fun as young adults then meet someone then settle down! Yay!'. This is basically the attitude I've observed in the majority of other grade 12's at my school, and I tolerate it, but disagree with developing that mindset myself. I like to think I'm also a realist; that the adult world can be tough and it's not something to see through rose-tinted glasses. We're all aware of that, but at the same time judging by the way young 18-25 year olds are now, seems like they do still think life is one big party sometimes. I understand enjoying your 20s, but I think the bigger picture is to think ahead as well. Agh, now I'm sounding like a perfectionist, aren't I, because I am. lol.

That's what I would say, really. When it comes to goals, nothing wrong with ambition, perfectionism and being goal-oriented, just got to make sure people don't believe everything will be 'perfect' in a sense, it's about hard work, determination/effort but also accepting failure/struggle when it comes (and, in real life, I am confident that it will).

I'm quite childish, so I'm switch between idealism and depression a lot.
I have a strong work ethic [I'm way ahead of everyone in my online class, for instance], so I'm fine in that respect. I honestly don't need much to be happy, so managing money hopefully won't be a big problem [except when it comes to buying books!]
As far as perfectionism goes, I often think that some things have to be just like this or that, and if it doesn't work out like that I get upset. I am often waaaay too hard on myself because I think that if I don't push myself to the limits, I'll just get lazy and won't do anything. I've been like that for most of my life.
Well, at least I can easily get a job at a library as a backup job. I've found that turning work into games seems to work for me [pretending that my school assignments are final bosses, listening to music while doing the dishes, stacking books in a particular way to make them more manageable when helping at the library, ectc.]

I'm quite childish, so I'm switch between idealism and depression a lot."

How so? When you say idealism do you mean blind optimism such as seeing the world through 'rose-tinted glasses', or just a more realistic sense of positive-thinking/idealism?

Because yeah that's what I get. Optimistic hopefulness or pessimistic hopelessness. Haha. And what I meant is when I'm being optimistic hopefulness I try to avoid being too idealistic ('rose-tinted glasses'/blindly over-positive). Over negative is counter-productive as well, if I think to negative I feel like I'll fall into a 'trap' - that it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy and my life will be difficult because of it.

So, in short: Slightly positive or slightly negative, not sure if I ever achieve a balance or not though I think it's rare for me.

"As far as perfectionism goes, I often think that some things have to be just like this or that, and if it doesn't work out like that I get upset. I am often waaaay too hard on myself because I think that if I don't push myself to the limits, I'll just get lazy and won't do anything. I've been like that for most of my life."

I'm like that with projects for hobbies/interest, always too much of a self-critic and then causes me to never get anything done or even share my work at all (over self-critiquing without anyone having even seen your stuff yet's the worst), but less so with other areas of my life. School I will admit I am just lazy, doing the bare-minimum to pass. My social life I'm always ambitious and perfectionist and can't cool-down. Always wanting to meet people, get to know people. This isn't bad but it does affect me negatively when I don't get the successes I desire. I've been lonely all year since moving to a new city/school and just wanted friends outside of school in real-life but never had that. I still keep in contact with existing frends online and meet up sometimes, and have good friends at school but I'm not satisfied. They just aren't the kind of friends to hang out with people outside of school. Like I think there's nothing wrong with ambition and perfectionism but I did get a real wake-up call - this acquaintance of mine who has dealt with hearing my complaints about lacking a social life and feeling 'bored' with life said something along the lines of "Man, you just gotta stop obsessing over your priorities and just let things happen naturally". And I have gotten it from others too I need to relax in social life.

What areas would you say you're perfectionist in then? School right, being ahead of everyone else and all?

*Sigh*, also I need to stop being so verbose. If you couldn't already tell, I am very verbose and expressive in my thoughts. Trying to control it though. In this case, I wasnt sure how I could make all this shorter.

Well, maybe idealism isn't quite the right word for me. 'Optimist' seems better. Balance is actually a lot more important than people think it is, isn't it? That phrase 'go with the flow' sounds lame but it's actually true, weirdly enough. I, too, am rather lazy when it comes to school: basically, I just do the work and philosophize or do research the rest of the time. I think the greatest area in which I am a perfectionist is my writing. Tolkien once made an allegory about an artist who becomes so obsessed with painting a tree one leaf by leaf that he never finishes it.
Nah, that's okay. I'm extremely verbose too, and it takes me a long time to work out how I feel.
We share a lot in common, don't we? Isn't it amazing that two people so far apart are so similar?

I can completely relate to that.
The only person I would consider a real friend of mine lives far too much away from me. We only communicate over the internet or mobile phones. My other friends who I really cared for just stopped talking to me. Since that day I was alone in school. My family don't seem to understand that I don't want to be friends with everyone. I'm extremely picky, you know? Since it's hard for me to make friends I'm rather in my own thoughts.

Yeah, staticworld, I am an extremely picky person from food to books to even the way my bed is made. School is a nightmare in that respect; all psychedelic and flashy fluorescent lights and noise and business and strict schedules and none of it agrees with me. At least most of the staff at my school are nice, even if some of them don't understand me.

I don't know if any Aspies enjoyed middle/high school. the best times I had were either with friends outside of the school or my own creative pursuits. but the people at the school itself sucked. It was funny my last year of highschool, after being blacklisted from every club slick and group i was voted by the year book as "most unique" they wanted my permission to publish that with no context, so I told them to f**k themselves, I knew those people doing the year book since middle school anyway, they had alienated me too.

I actually enjoyed high school, but thing is at the end of each year I would look back at it in shame. It's like I could nrver realize how much of an X negative thing I was until the end of each year. Here in Australia summer is December to February and every summer vacation I would look back at the previous year, feel guilt/regret, and then by the start of the next school year I would always feel like 'a new person' and feel more confident, happier, social, 'better' than the prevous year.

8th/9th grade I was content but now look back realizing I was lonely, and social outcast who had difficulty making any friends. Only hung out with the special ed kids every lunch break. 10th grade I was far more social and expanding my social life, hanging out with more people, but I was desperate as f*ck for a girlfriend to the point I wasted a lot of time that could have been spent just being friends with girls and treating them like people. 11th grade I was very happy, goofy person, REALLY put myself out there in terms of social life, actually considered slightly funny/entertaining in English class, etc. but I now realize I was still a major social outcast, very inappropriate/poor social skills, had selfish and narcissistic 'friends' who used me for their own gains - I was too blindly loyal for my own good.

This year, my final in high school, has actually been good to me/the best. I'm not some poor social skills loser anymore, but actually well-liked/mildly popular, the 'class clown' type in English class, plenty of good friends and acquaintances of both sexes, and just in general more confident and social.

But yes friends or creative interests always more fun/entertaining. I was never a hard-worker but always the straight C guy and still am.

"My family don't seem to understand that I don't want to be friends with everyone. I'm extremely picky, you know? Since it's hard for me to make friends I'm rather in my own thoughts."

I'm usually a very tolerant and accepting guy on a non-friend level, e.g. I can accept people my age who do drugs, love to get drunk, all that stuff, so long as they keep that stuff away from me, but at the same time very high standards with friendships. It's hard to explain. It's like I can talk to the weed smoking 16 year old guy who loves getting drunk with his dodgy friends, just don't expect me to get to know him better. I started my high standards after years of being friends with any selfish person who liked to thrive off my loyalty.

Would you say though it's difficult to make friends in general, because of your pickiness, or both? For me it's always been both. I'm social at school and desire meeting people and friendships so much, but once i actually socialize I can't stand most people (not in a judgmental way, just personality incompatibilies or not fitting my standards). Desire friendship so much, but only with a select few. Hm.

"That phrase 'go with the flow' sounds lame but it's actually true, weirdly enough."

Ironically enough, that's how I come across to most people. A calm, relaxed guy. The stereotypical ultra-relaxed high school senior who's just 'drifting' through life. I am a really calm, relaxed and laid-back person so this is true but I also alternate to the complete opposite - perfectionism, ambition, but also negative emotions like stress, anxiety, paranoia, etc.

"Nah, that's okay. I'm extremely verbose too, and it takes me a long time to work out how I feel."

At least you can think about what you're going to say before you do it, and then summarize. I just jump straight into it and start typing, letting whatever ideas instantly flow from mind to paper. It has made me regret sending messages in the past to people because I don't think about sending something before I do it. Funny enough in actual real-life I always think things through, perfectionist and all that. But with me and verbosity, I can even change my thoughts, emotions, etc. while actually mid-typing, which ends up making me type these ideas as well, and can all just become a long, cluttered mess of thoughts/ideas. And funny enough, I'm actually doing it right now as I type this. So often I look back at my writing and think "Oh, wow, that was LONG." O_O

I've heard verbosity is usually considered by people to be arrogant, self-centered, etc. 'likes hearing the sound of their own voice'. I disagree, and like to think I'm just a bit more 'spontaneous' online. I actually don't mind if most people skim my writing to only extract the relevant bits, and I even recommend it if you don't want to read all this writing.

It's like, those confident extroverts in real-life who can be 'random' and 'impulsive' - certainly there's an online equivalent, is there not?

"We share a lot in common, don't we? Isn't it amazing that two people so far apart are so similar?"

Why so? I'm honestly not surprised, it seems like the only other people anyone can find that are similar to them are a very long distance away. Well, that actually depends, but you get what I mean. N.T's always seem to find it easier.

I certainly enjoyed playing games with my crush, but other than that, no. Before that I always went on my own and didn't care a bit about the other kids.

Well, Outrider, I find all of your posts so far insightful and interesting to read. Thank you.
I, too, spend a great chunk of my Grade 9 year either sitting at the special needs table in the cafeteria or actually in the second special needs room, so I kind of became used to my solitude. I'm still used to my solitude, actually.
I'm often naive and too trusting as well, but ironically enough even though I'm creative and love how different I am and 'march to the beat of my own drum', so to speak, sometimes I'm extremely docile.
They say that Grade 11 is the hardest year, but I disagree. All four years were and are equally hard for me.
I think that the whole world in general needs to slow down a little and not be in such as rush as if they're all running a race to be the best and get 'there' ahead of everyone else. It's difficult for me to make friends both in general and because I'm always so picky.
It seems to me that NTs do find it easier, but for all I know they could be struggling inside just as much as anyone else.
[A side topic:] So what's it like in Australia?

"Well, Outrider, I find all of your posts so far insightful and interesting to read. Thank you."

No, I'd rather say thank you, I usually don't get that a lot. Plus, while I enjoy deep conversation and, to and extent, it comes naturally to me, I also have to put some effort into it to arrange my thoughts however right now I haven't even been trying that hard.

"so I kind of became used to my solitude. I'm still used to my solitude, actually." I was isolated and enjoyed my solitude in earlier years but now deeply desire a real-life social life. Last year I had the two best of friends and spent so much time with them - a taste of a real social life makes me crave for it back.

"I'm often naive and too trusting as well, but ironically enough even though I'm creative and love how different I am and 'march to the beat of my own drum', so to speak, sometimes I'm extremely docile."

Yeah that's what I mean when I say I'm confident. I flaunt any eccentricities or differences at school in my 'confident character' like I was mentioning earlier. I'm the 'class clown' type in English but with creative and original humor for instance.

"It's difficult for me to make friends both in general and because I'm always so picky."

I'd say it's a good thing. Better than being friends with selfish backstabbers. Looking back I used to think the only reason I was friends with such awful people was because as an aspie I was too naive to realize it, but I just have to admit to myself that was partly the reason, but also I was just desperate for friends and didn't want to end up alone.

I at least looked semi-social, because the people i hung out with were semi-popular; I might have just been the awkward unlikable weirdo clinging around them loyally and looking out-of-place but at least I was there.

"It seems to me that NTs do find it easier, but for all I know they could be struggling inside just as much as anyone else."

Hopefully, though they seem to be a minority. It almost seems effortless for them and this holds true for majority of NT friends I have. A good friend of mine, she admits she is introverted (the kind that never hangs out with anyone, doesn't reach out to people), she has Social Anxiety, ADD and short-term memory making conversation slightly more difficult, and she says she's 'awkward' but people just seem to naturally 'magnitize' to her. We were discussing making friends and how for some it is so effortless and I was basically complaining about how it's unfair and all that, she did say maybe they do struggle but you just don't see it, but then I countered by making it clear she is an example herself of effortless popularity/high amount of friendships, and she agrees.

"So what's it like in Australia?"

I don't really know what to say. It's nice here in Australia and I like living here, but a lot of things about it I can't stand. Just has to do with the culture. What people from other countries don't always know is it's actually surprisingly racist here, specifically from white Australians - there's a lot of discrimination against certain immigrants (specifically East and West Asia e.g. Chinese and Indian but others as well) and also still some racism against the Indigenous Australians unfortunately. I'm 1/4 Aboriginal Australian but haven't experienced any of the racism myself first-hand, probably because I look too 'racially ambiguous'. We have our own type of 'rednecks' over here known as 'bogans' but I'd honestly say they're worse - I'd prefer the American 'rednecks' any-day. As Democratic-Socialist, the government I do not like here, it has the infamous two-party system like the U.S. (a flawed and outdated one) with a third smaller party. The parties are LNP (Liberal National Party), Labor and 'The Greens'. I disagree with the entire system but the Greens are the only I support, they are the smallest but the best - they have socially progressive views, care for the environment, good economics, etc. Anyway, our former Prime Minister (the worst in history) Tony Abbott has left the country in an economic mess, etc. and his recent pre-mature replacement Malcom Turnbull, also of LNP, is just as bad (but the media are disguising him as the 'more progressivist' and odd-man out of the LNP - I am skeptical and so are many others). It's a stereotype we live in 'deserts' or the outback and all, like 95% of AU live in coastal areas. Also, the stereotype about dangerous animals? We have dangerous animals, they're just all located in-land (aka the parts of the country you probably wouldn't see as a tourist anyway). And...yeah...

I guess loneliness is more acute now that I am living in a foreign country, my only real social life is people at work, which means I am lonely when I am not at work, plus there is a language barrier to contend with.

Have you looked into any activites outside of work. WHo knows, might even be programs specifically for people from outside the country, - meetup groups, things like that.

I'd rather not have a busy social life. just a few friends are fine for me. I'd rather be the invisible girl instead of anywhere in a social status.
I'm also extremely cautious when it comes to meeting new people, so while I don't view them in negative ways, exactly, I'm always on the lookout for betrayal. I have trust issues. It's kind of a big deal.
People seem to like me a lot, even though I'm so quiet, and it baffles me to this day. I guess I'm magnetic!
Wow, I never knew all of that about Australia. It seems like every country has some sort of political issue, doesn't it? When I vote, I'm going to vote for the Canadian Green Party!
Oh, and I found this: http://aspergers-support-group.meetup.com/

"I'd rather not have a busy social life. just a few friends are fine for me. I'd rather be the invisible girl instead of anywhere in a social status."

I do only want 2-3 close friends to hang out with all the time, it's just I choose to meet so many people and be socially proactive to actually meet these kind of people, to be honest. I use to have this with my 2 friends last year, but no more. Like I said I do have friends/acquaintances at school, in classes, at lunch breaks, etc. but i'm not satisfied with it. I have no one to hang out with on the weekend, or go to events too, or invite to my birthday, etc. I desire those kind of friendships, but still do value my solitude - ambiverted. Right now I have: Best friend, use to live in same place, now both in different cities, still meet up sometimes and keep in contact online all the time. Two good friends from last year, use to live same place, still in contact online, am planning to meet them soon enough and also just because I want to visit my old city eventually because it's such a nice place. At school I am a part of this medium-sized, mostly female group made up of the 'nerdy' 'geeky' and 'artistic' type people in my grade - music, writing, art, dance, acting, etc.

You only like a few friends, but do you still hang out with some kind of group? And, would you say you're the quietest in the group? I am, but only because I choose to be quiet, not shy. Simply put, in groups my attitude is: "I just want to sit here, relax, do my own thing and chill-out around these nice people, and if I want to talk to you individually one-on-one or join a group discussion, then I will do so. If I do not, it doesn't mean I'm shy, stuck-up, or anything of those things - merely disinterested."

"I'm also extremely cautious when it comes to meeting new people, so while I don't view them in negative ways, exactly, I'm always on the lookout for betrayal. I have trust issues. It's kind of a big deal."

For me it's more social conformity than anything else. I'm not good at the whole 'Hi, my name is' type stuff. Yeah I can introduce myself, a firm handshake, etc. but after that I prefer to choose to sit down, integrate myself, and act like I do in any other group I've known for a long time - "I just want to sit here, relax, do my own thing...etc."

This can either get me a positive or negative outcome. Positive because it comes across as confident, being able to settle myself in so quickly and come across as calm/relaxed. But negative because some seem to expect a conversation afterwards.

Thing is I prefer to get to know people by hearing about their interests, and then expanding on it, instead of the other way around - talking to them to find out their interests.

So, in a typical 'new group' situation, this is me: Hi, my name is X. What's yours? That's cool, X. If you need me I'll just be sitting down here. then I go sit down. 5-10 minutes later I am observing their interactions with their other friends to pick up general mannerisms, and listening to the conversations. Then, if I am interested, I will approach, individually or by joining group. "I heard you and the group talking about music, you seem to know a lot about it. Do you like to make your own music?".

See, i don't even know if my method is conformist or non-conformist, because for some it seems to work while for others it doesn't. Some prefer "Hi, I'm X. What's your name?" and then striking up a conversation to get to know them, some prefer you hang out for a little and then join in when you're ready, take your time, etc.

"People seem to like me a lot, even though I'm so quiet, and it baffles me to this day. I guess I'm magnetic!"

I would say that myself if I wasn't always putting maximum effort into absolutely everything, from how I walk to how I talk, always a 'character', always 'on-mode'. Like I said way back, you have to get to know me better to know the 'man behind the character' - the more 'relaxed' side of myself and less trying hard. Few I know can relate to me, everyone just is themselves if slightly more polite in public and it's so effortless for them.

There is this belief we all act different in public then at home, trying to come across as a 'better' version of ourselves, but I don't buy it - most people really are just themselves out in public, I think. Or if they are a 'better' version of themselves, nobody takes it as far as I do. I exaggerate everything about me x10, not just x1.5.

"Wow, I never knew all of that about Australia. It seems like every country has some sort of political issue, doesn't it? When I vote, I'm going to vote for the Canadian Green Party!"

So, you're Canadian then. What's Canada like that? I've always thought it's a great country, one of my 'places to visit' in the world. Have you ever heard the stereotype of how Canada is this 'great, amazing, wonderful' place? Would you say it's really that great, or I'm just idolizing it?

Um, well, Outsider, in response to your question about Canada, it's...messed up, but not as badly messed up as other places. The politicians seem to fight each other all the time, and poverty is all over the place, and poutine is disgusting, but there's good things too, like wildlife parks and museums and bookstores and stuff like that.