"You killed the mood by asking."

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Only the neurotypical version of it.



I suppose that happens.



If you think verbal consent is the neurodiverse way of getting into and being in a relationships you are very mistaken. Nothing can be further from the truth. A neurodiverse woman would typically signal interest with a specific eye contact pattern and/or with stims. NTs will not pick up on those, but NDs might (even should). It's simply no fun to negotiate everything verbally, and I don't even like to talk a lot, especially not to a woman I have a crush on.

To. Comp_Geek_573

Sorry to hear your difficulties...As much as you're struggling she would have been struggled with your reaction to her wishes. If I were her I would be more than appreciated if you tell me everything about your touch issues due to AS. I guess she would be as well. She would have never guessed all those difficulties you've had. She may have misunderstood that you'd ignored her needs. When she saw it your way, she would realize it was something beyond you could handle..and she would try to fit in to you.

(And please ..all posts here are only trying to help you..not offend you..you know that.)

^What Drawyer said.
Also, not all NTs are bad.

You're supposed to read their body language....

^Yes, but loads of Aspies have problems with that, myself included. I can't even stand to look a person in the eye. Or am I misinterpreting what you're saying?

Comp geek,
You either have to cope with the majority of humans or- if you can't, then you would have to play the lottery by dating girls with your same views (who would need verbal confirmation on any romance/sexual move). Good luck.

You mentioned earlier you're a firm supporter of feminism (and nothing wrong in that), I think you are more likely to find someone with this view among the activist feminist circles? This is a place to start.

Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 04 Nov 2015, 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

It would be ugly and her reaction might be disgust or she might slap him or something like that, but a one single unwanted kiss (which is falsely interpreted as wanted by the kisser) within a date is neither a sexual assault nor a rape, it is simply the result of misunderstanding.

Yes, a one unwanted kiss might happen due to misunderstanding from the guy, but it cannot be in the case of sexual assault and definitely not in rape.

The kissing thing becomes a sexual assault if the kisser for example is forcefully insisting to continue kissing her while she's trying to push him away, escaping his lips or resisting him...etc . In this case, it is not happening due to mere misunderstanding from his side, but it's due to the guy's bad intentions, sick sense of entitlement and lack of morals = a mind of a sexual assaulter.

A rape, or even a sexual assault, doesn't happen by coincidence, it doesn't simply because the male misunderstood something, it happens because this male happens to have the mindset that makes him a potential rapist/assaulter all the time in the first place; otherwise it wouldn't happen.

Mr Boo,
Who is supposed to be Grammar geek...?
I can't help but ask..

Oops, Comp geek....

I dunno where I got this Grammar part from.

Hehe...oopsy

What's offensive to me is the blatant, active disregard for consent. The PUNISHMENT for seeking consent. The attitude that asking is creepier than just going for it - all the way up to KISSING. Seriously, under these rules, virtually every woman on the spectrum is going to be kissed, felt and groped because she gave "signals" that are mostly wishful thinking on the part of men who feel entitled to women's bodies.

Also, the ableism. The assumptions that I can read body language like a NT. THE VERY ABLEISM THAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE ABSENT FROM WRONG PLANET. Perhaps I'm better at reading body language than I think, but THAT IS ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE TO JUST ASSUME I CAN READ IT LIKE A NEUROTYPICAL.

And finally, the assertion that nobody likes talking about matters of touch verbally, even among the "neurodiverse." This literally erases HOW I AM PERSONALLY on the matter (and that I thought would have been obvious from my original post, but just goes to show how not everything's as "obvious" as most people think...) I LOVE the idea of working out intricate rules with a nice woman on what we can and can't do to each other by default - once we have working "safe harbor" rules for certain forms of touch and/or certain signals that signify consent to X and Y, we can actually go for it without fear! "Lawyer play" as some in the BDSM community call it. TOTALLY worth the "bureaucracy" for some much-needed CLARITY.

Mind if I tell you I have a sister who is NT, but prefers that guys ask first? When I brought this up with her she told me this.

And as for "getting off easy" for one unwanted kiss - I'm not buying it for a nanosecond. If a man did this to me, he will quickly regret it when I train my anger and hyperfocus on getting a restraining order against him, AT LEAST. In fact, my only reason not to go even further is so he is not raped in prison (far worse than one unwanted kiss) or branded as a sex offender for the rest of his life. Because MEN ESPECIALLY ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO TOUCH ME BY DEFAULT, NO MATTER WHAT I "SIGNAL." My body, my rules.

OP clearly needs to tell her his touch issues and AS in this point where she asked him "to make a move actively" since he's had hard time coping with her wishes. If she really loves him she would embrace whatever she has to deal with.

Consider yourself reported for a personal attack.

This post blithely assumes that I am a rapist looking for an excuse, simply because I CANNOT READ BODY LANGUAGE LIKE MOST PEOPLE. It is deeply, darkly hurtful. It smashes against all the many, many, many, many, many times I missed "obvious" signals and social cues and SUDDENLY LOST AN APPARENTLY AWESOME FRIEND (OR FIFTEEN.) And now that RAPE is on the table...

All the missed "obvious" cues leave me no choice but to assume that any and all touch is rape without explicit verbal consent.

Calm down, please, guys! Yet again I'm the peace-girl! CompGeek, I'm sure that AR doesn't think of you like that. It's important to remember that what might be obvious to someone might be completely missed by someone else, so try not to generalize. Peace, please!

Sorry, but this is false and not very helpful. This "take a hint, guys" nonsense is bull. A lot of the people here are already insecure before they start dating, and once they start dating, that isn't going to change. That doesn't render them useless for dating. It just means that certain types of people aren't going to be interested, and that's fine, because we don't need everyone to be attracted to us.

We're also talking about the first stages of dating a person, here. People are not mind readers, regardless of gender. How many relationships are truly considered serious or for the long term, until long after the first kiss? At this point, neither of you know each other all that well. There's always initial fears and nervousness... wondering what's okay and what isn't.

It shouldn't ruin your chances with another person to ask for simple communication. Unfortunately, it sometimes does. I don't see this as being the fault of the person who asked. I think people watch too many romance movies and hold unrealistic expectations for relationships, in general. In the movies, people always know what to do. It's called acting. It's scripted. This is not reflective of real life.

Dating and relationships often feel like a game that's designed to give you headaches and mess with your self esteem. There's a lot of false rejections, in hopes that you'll chase them.. because this is what's perceived as romance. Men are considered weak, or not real men, if they don't overcome this and get the girl anyway. Sorry, but if a person even so much as mildly rejects me, I'm done trying. I view the opposite as forcing myself on someone, which I certainly don't want to do.

Unless you have personally been on this end of things, don't tell guys that they need to "get a clue". Nothing is ever that simple when it comes to dating. For any type of relationship to work, both people need to work together. Especially if the goal is a relationship in which both people are loved and respected for who they are.

^ AWESOME!

I really need to change my signature, by the way. I think my "Asperger score" is low, since I've moved in that direction since I was on Wrong Planet frequently quite a bit ago. In fact, it did strike me as low at the time of taking the test, but it was close enough for me to assume I was a bit more "neurotypical" than I thought. I have many, but not all, "Asperger" or "Autistic" traits.

Last edited by Comp_Geek_573 on 04 Nov 2015, 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.