I want to give up on love but can't

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Women can tell when you need one too badly and will reject you on that basis due to demonstrated lack of preselection.

I find that bizarre. At my age I'm in the position of only really meeting guys who haven't had success romantically and that's why they are alone. I'd be stupid to reject someone in the same position as me.

Also, I want someone who wants a partner. Not someone who doesn't. If someone shows that they want me then that's a hundred times better than someone who isn't interested.

I'd only then reject them if I found their personality annoying. Not because of their wanting to have a partner.

Although, general NT behaviour can be bizarre. Psychology is fascinating. I've never understood the rejecting someone because they want a thing too much.

The only reason I can think of for rejection in this case is that you feel like just a number to them. They like you because they want someone,... anyone. And you don't feel like they like you for your personality.

Perhaps that is the problem. You just want "somebody;" she may have sensed that you cared more about the relationship than about her.
When people pull away, give them space. Play the long game. You don't have to define everything along the way.

No from what he wrote about her in the other thread he really seemed to feel a genuine connection. Surely that would shine through.

I haven't visited that thread in a bit but I don't doubt that a genuine connection has been made.
I don't know if this is an autism thing, but I have noticed that often in this forum people post what amounts to a need to label the stages of a relationship. This is unnecessary and counter productive. I think a more fluid, less defined route is the way to go, especially early in a relationship. Some people know each other for years before it becomes romantic. This is what I mean about it being about the person not the relationship.

Don't even try to give up on love OP, you will be severely disappointed.

No one is truly happy single and alone, unless you're some variant of Asexual, have some sort of mental disorder that prevents you from feeling for people such as Sociopathy or Schizoid, or are an exceptional genius who cares far more about their pursuit of science and philosophy than relationships, but even then many geniuses throughout history were social (Albert Einstein, etc.)

Anyone else that claims you've got to be 'happy on your own first' before you try to find love are liars.

No one is truly happy on their own, and those that are happy being single tend to only be single for a 3-6 months before they enter another relationship again anyway, typically with someone they met through a mutual friend, so they weren't single enough to know if they really would be happy single or not in the long-term.

Also, even when single they typically have friends and a social life, and don't know what it's like to have little to no friends.

The advice 'you find love when you stop looking' and 'be happy on your own first' are all Normie B.S.

What is a 'normie'?

A normie is a person with mainstream interests, N.T. and a stable friendship group of 3-6 members that all also have other friends outside of the group.

Because of their constant exposure to other people, average looks and social skills, most Normies typically have at least 2-6 STRs and LTRs before age 30 before they find the one they want to settle down with and marry in their late 20s.

They typically graduate high school, attend university immediately afterwards, graduate and get a degree within 4-6 years, get a part-time or min. wage job until they secure a job in their chosen field, then settle down with someone they met and began an LTR with in the later years of their university social life.

They can stop looking for love, they can 'be happy on their own' as a way to compensate for the fact they are actually miserable after their last relationship ended, but will choose to be happy until the next relationship rolls around 3-8 months later.

Just based on the tone of the OP, he sounds too clingy and needy, and this is likely pushing the women he likes away subconsciously. A person needs to be content and secure in their own life, if they "need" a woman in order to feel like they have purpose then this isn't a good foundation. Unfortunately conventional society and pop culture portrays "finding a mate" as the reason d'etre for existence, but in reality it's not.

Real love comes from God or a higher purpose or "mission in life", all other forms of love are secondary.

I'm not going to give up on love.

It's too much fun!

Do many people their SOand family is their mission in life. Not everyone will have some grand mission like helping people in other nations or running for office etc. nothing wrong with ones mission being finding s mate and making them happy.

As for clingy, why do so many women complain their bf is distant then?

That's false - if you mean being completely physically isolated (such as in solitary confinement) that's another story, but if you mean simply "being without sex/relationship" then that's utter rubbish; if a person feels purposeless then this is when they become miserable, but if they believe they have no "purpose" in life unless they're in a relationship or having sex then this is the psychological problem.

Napoleon Hill, for example stated that accomplished men channel their sexual energy into other goals or pursuits, so the statement that "men need sex" is just a myth - it's when men have no purpose or ambition in their life that the "animal urges" become in control and they start to think more like an ape that lives only to procreate.


No they're telling it like it is - if you're miserable with your life you won't be happy with someone else or make them happy, you'll just make them share in your own misery.

If you have no sense of purpose in your life other than "finding love" then that's the problem - find something ASAP, doesn't matter what it is - whether it's reading, career, athletics, church, volunteering, cars, chess club, etc - as long as it has genuine meaning to you rather than just a way to "kill your boredom".


Being isolated in a room with no social contact at all is one thing - but if you think you have to be "in a relationship" to have company then that's complete rubbish - even if you don't have a regular "social circle" to just shoot the breeze with there are plenty of groups, churches, volunteer activities, etc you can get involved with; hell even discussing some topic you really like (such as philosophy or science) with folks on the internet is a social outlet.

Plus many of the 'normies' or people out there I've hung out with aren't really all that interesting all the time anyway - I've had way more stimulating interactions talking about philosophy online, or reading good books than I have just hanging at a bar and talking about work and "chicks" with some buddies; and i'd hate to be some super social butterfly who's constantly around people and never has a moment to himself.


See above - join a book reading club, take a college class in a subject you like - if you think "hanging out at Burger King" talking about one's job or the latest episode of "Game of Thrones" is paradise on earth, then think again. Most people's lives appear to be pretty damn boring.


It's really not, if your only purpose in life is to "find someone and be happily ever after" then whether you're social or not you're way less likely to find "love" because you'll come across as insecure in yourself and needy and drive people away - at best you'll just end up "settling" with someone who's just as insecure, and winding up in a boring relationship or eventual divorce.

Again, if you take this to mean a person can sit alone in a basement, only have human contact once a year, and magically "wind up in a relationship" then no, it's not a literal statement. But if you want to find quality companionship rather than just "settle for anything that will take you" like most people do, then you need to have a sense of purpose in your life.


Fail - if you think that they're "happy" like in some Disney movie then think again; they just settle for whoever will take them because they aren't secure in themselves and constantly "need" to be with someone just to feel whole (and even then they're just as unhappy, or moreso). I would honestly estimate only about 5-10% of married couples today are really "in love", and that the rest are mediocre-miserable and just keeping up appearances because this is what society expects them to.

I've had about 15-20 sex partners, most of whom I met independently (e.x. at a bar, at some kind of outside activity such as the gym or volunteer work), and most of them I would've have even wanted a LTR with because most of them just weren't that interesting and didn't seem to have enough intellectual interests.

(I've also made guy friends just by frequenting places like bars, local business, and being a little bit social - never met anyone super "close" but again most of them were just too "square" and we didn't have much in common other than just occasional drinking, playing casual games of pool, etc)

And FTR, the one girl I moved in with when I was younger and dumber was a match made in hell - I'd rather be trapped in a cell with an internet connection for 10 years than ever have stayed in a LTR or had a kid with her; I wouldn't even wish that on my worst enemy.


It's not supposed to be. People need some type of higher existential purpose rather than the cheap conventions which society passes for "purpose" which usually just boils down to "work, money, marriage, kids, death" - bleh.

Whether religious or secular this is where security and happiness comes from; this is why two people can work the same job, one will despise it and the other will enjoy it, because the first person sees it as just a means to an end to get a paycheck, while the other person sees it as a way to contribute to society and utilize their talents.


Doesn't matter whether you're "famous" or a "politician" - you need a deeper sense of meaning behind the things you do, such as making the world a better place, contributing to society, etc.

If your only purpose in life is just to "have things" (including relationships) then you'll never be secure since nothing in this physical world is permanent.


Tu quoque - the same truth applies to women. Even if clingy women don't tend to be "as much" of a turn-off as clingy men, if a woman has no sense of purpose in her life other than "finding a man" she'll be just as insecure.

"That's false - if you mean being completely physically isolated (such as in solitary confinement) that's another story, but if you mean simply "being without sex/relationship" then that's utter rubbish; if a person feels purposeless then this is when they become miserable, but if they believe they have no "purpose" in life unless they're in a relationship or having sex then this is the psychological problem."

No, I mean a person with no relationship, no/minimal amount of friends who they rarely see/live far away, and distant relationship with family. Also they are a NEET not in education, training or working.

Yes, a person attending university with good friends and a loving and caring family can be far more content without love, but I'm not talking about those people.

Personally I feel purposeless because I am a NEET. I will be volunteering soon however. It helps me feel better in life but it is not the be all end all of my troubles.

I still need friends to spend time with and make me happy.

Yes, need. Not want, but need.

A need is something you would die without.

While I would die far quicker without food, water, or sleep, being so isolated and without friends for too long can also cause death. It can cause miserable depression, loneliness, worsen anxiety, worsen self-esteem as they recieve no external validation, potentially cause insanity, and potentially result in suicide.

Humans are social creatures, most of us need some basic level of positive social interaction to remain sane, whether you admit it or not.

Whether it's helping complete strangers who are poor and homeless and feeling happy when they thank you and when you see the smile's on their face, or whether it's having a good time with loving friends, family, or a loving and caring S.O.

"Napoleon Hill, for example stated that accomplished men channel their sexual energy into other goals or pursuits, so the statement that "men need sex" is just a myth - it's when men have no purpose or ambition in their life that the "animal urges" become in control and they start to think more like an ape that lives only to procreate."

I think you're being extremely condescending and pompous if this is what you genuinely believe, equating anyone who's lifelong dream is true love or simply being able to carry on their legacy 'apes'.

Some people feel their purpose in life is to make others happy.

This could be through volunteering and contributing to the world, it can also be always being supportive and being there for your family, friends and S.O.

Besides, procreation is a natural need innate in almost all humans and there is nothing wrong with having the urge for procreation.

Not everyone needs nor wants a 'higher purpose' of existence.

I have my hobbies and skills, they are fun but that's all I ever want out of them - fun.

Not everyone wants to nor should feel they have to 'contribute' or 'change the world', some just want to exist until they die, but enjoy the ride.

Not everyone should be innovative, creative or such. Some just want to have some hobbies and interests, get whatever fun they can out of them, and spend time with good friends and family who make them happy, and probably work some easy job to get them sufficient money to live.

In fact, I think most people simply want this.

For some people, their meaning in life is to just be happy, and if this is what makes them happy, why is there a problem, and why is there a problem with people who dream of this?

I think most people with low-paying or part-time jobs don't do it out of 'fun' and to find a 'sense of purpose'. They do it to pay the bills.

Most people are not special or exceptional.

Even those who try to change the world will be disappointed because they'll find they on't be able to do much.

Only the very infintismally small 0.000001% of musicians, writers, actors, scientists, doctors, etc. ever find massive success or make any meaningful or influential changes.

"No they're telling it like it is - if you're miserable with your life you won't be happy with someone else or make them happy, you'll just make them share in your own misery."

I've seen plenty of miserable people get into happy relationships. Plenty of insecure or unconfident people as well.

I am secure and confident in myself, most of the time. It has gotten me nothing, except only lowered my self-esteem because apparently even if I am confident and secure in myself, others cannot see this and so it has not brought me any positive results.

"If you have no sense of purpose in your life other than "finding love" then that's the problem - find something ASAP, doesn't matter what it is - whether it's reading, career, athletics, church, volunteering, cars, chess club, etc - as long as it has genuine meaning to you rather than just a way to "kill your boredom"."

I already argued about this above.

I have multiple things.

Health and fitness, Music production, and Volunteering atm.

Have they helped? Yes.

Have they gotten rid of the loneliness? Of course not, because I do ALL of these things alone, and get minimal social interaction at the volunteering.

Really, what are you trying to say? That hobbies kill lonelines? I completely disagree. If anything, many people see their hobbies as escapism from their loneliness or lives that are terrible in other ways (poor, jobless, depressed, suicidal, etc.)

I'm tired of running away from my problems, I'm tired of denying I would be satisfied with my hobbies and spending the rest of my life as alone as I am now, because personally I would not.

Some people are simply wired differently and rely on the positive experiences they share with others to be happy.

"Being isolated in a room with no social contact at all is one thing - but if you think you have to be "in a relationship" to have company then that's complete rubbish - even if you don't have a regular "social circle" to just shoot the breeze with there are plenty of groups, churches, volunteer activities, etc you can get involved with; hell even discussing some topic you really like (such as philosophy or science) with folks on the internet is a social outlet."

Yes, I agree.

No, the internet does not help me.

Personally I hate the idea of having online friendships and have none. I derive very little pleasure from conversations with online strangers.

I require seeing their face, their smile, their laugh, etc. and prefer person-to-person conversation.

I am not religious and have no intention of faking it, that leaves out church groups.

I am often far too formal and business-like regarding volunteering.

They are usually all middle-aged and elderly women at these places anyway. I derive some limited value out of my conversations with them but it's far different than actually speaking to someone on your level sharing your current life experiences and such, someone my own age.

"Plus many of the 'normies' or people out there I've hung out with aren't really all that interesting all the time anyway - I've had way more stimulating interactions talking about philosophy online, or reading good books than I have just hanging at a bar and talking about work and "chicks" with some buddies; and i'd hate to be some super social butterfly who's constantly around people and never has a moment to himself."

Agreed.

I find the vast majority of people mundane and uninteresting, including myself.

I get bored with 'complex' conversation all the time though, as well. It is stimulating, but sometimes it really is better to stick with the basics and make some small talk with people for once, of which I have no one to do so with except for my mother, best friend who lives far away, and another good friend who lives far away.

"See above - join a book reading club, take a college class in a subject you like - if you think "hanging out at Burger King" talking about one's job or the latest episode of "Game of Thrones" is paradise on earth, then think again. Most people's lives appear to be pretty damn boring."

Yes, I agree.

I cannot find anyone who shares my hobbies and interests. Never could in high school, doubt I'd be able to now.

I create electronic music. People who create it are rare, even the people who listen to it have often never heard of the genre I create and do not like it when I show it to them. There goes that idea.

Book reading club? I don't think there is one here.

When I'm 18 I may join the cycling and running groups here as I enjoy being physically active.

You'd be suprirsed how many clubs and groups are 18+ even if they do not serve alcohol.

Even Meetup.com is adults only. It's very limiting at my age.

I have no idea what I want to do at university. Well, I do, but I am not emotionally ready and know this. See my posts in the 'I don't want to date poor people' thread for more information as to why.

"It's really not, if your only purpose in life is to "find someone and be happily ever after" then whether you're social or not you're way less likely to find "love" because you'll come across as insecure in yourself and needy and drive people away - at best you'll just end up "settling" with someone who's just as insecure, and winding up in a boring relationship or eventual divorce. Again, if you take this to mean a person can sit alone in a basement, only have human contact once a year, and magically "wind up in a relationship" then no, it's not a literal statement. But if you want to find quality companionship rather than just "settle for anything that will take you" like most people do, then you need to have a sense of purpose in your life."

What is your advice then?

I do not have friends who live in the same city as me, and have very few to no ways to meet any, especially any even close to my age.

I rarely see young people in the age 16-25 age bracket anywhere when I go out to places.

All the time I go to the beach and to events with family.

I can't find any young people anywhere. It seems the only places they are is at university/college.

All the places I volunteer always have middle-aged and elderly women and men.

The last place I volunteered, the two youngest man and woman were both about 23, the rest of them were no youngest than 40.

I went to a social group for people with disabilities earlier in the year.

There was only two people under the age of 30. I got along with the second youngest, the 26 year old, the best.

Besides, I genuinely most people just hide any insecurity or neediness.

Most young teens and young adults seek approval from others, the thrive on fitting in and appearing conventional and mainstream.

But I guess they really are just 'doing their own thing' and in reality do NOT actually care about what others think of them.

I doubt that.

Self-image and conformity has always been found to be a big thing among adolescents by psychologists and such.

"Fail - if you think that they're "happy" like in some Disney movie then think again; they just settle for whoever will take them because they aren't secure in themselves and constantly "need" to be with someone just to feel whole (and even then they're just as unhappy, or moreso). I would honestly estimate only about 5-10% of married couples today are really "in love", and that the rest are mediocre-miserable and just keeping up appearances because this is what society expects them to."

At least their youth is happier than most of the aspies here.

A good analogy I've been told by multiple psychologists is this:

"Everyone struggles in life, we all feel anxiety on the first day of school, or college, or when we just start a new job, or when we move out of home, but for people such as yourself, it's 10 times worse."

in response to when talking about my severe Generalized Anxiety Disorder and Agoraphobia.

Sure, we can argue they aren't as happy as they appear, but we certainly can't marginalize the struggles of genuinely disabled people here in comparison to them, many N.T.s have certainly had it far easier than many of us here ever have.

"I've had about 15-20 sex partners, most of whom I met independently (e.x. at a bar, at some kind of outside activity such as the gym or volunteer work), and most of them I would've have even wanted a LTR with because most of them just weren't that interesting and didn't seem to have enough intellectual interests."

We have different tastes.

I'm probably one of the few aspies here who does not care about 'intellectualness' or 'interestingness'.

If anything I have a preference for shy, mundane girls who spend most of their time working their job, watching tv and movies, and browsing their facebook wall on their phone.

That would probably sound quite uninteresting to you, but these kind of girls intrigue me.

I just want someone who takes care of herself, is good at conversation, likes me for me and I for her, and is warm and loving.

"And FTR, the one girl I moved in with when I was younger and dumber was a match made in hell - I'd rather be trapped in a cell with an internet connection for 10 years than ever have stayed in a LTR or had a kid with her; I wouldn't even wish that on my worst enemy."

Please don't imply I would ever 'settle'.

With full confidence, I can assure you - I never will, despite what my attitude may entail.

Even at my most desperate times, I was perfectly capable of rejecting someone I knew was toxic for me (and turned out to be so).

"It's not supposed to be. People need some type of higher existential purpose rather than the cheap conventions which society passes for "purpose" which usually just boils down to "work, money, marriage, kids, death" - bleh."

This IS my purpose. Living a plain, ordinary, mundane existence, so long as I enjoy the people in my life, and enjoy the hobbies I do in my spare time, what's the matter?

It IS supposed to be what you make of it, and judging by Sly's past posts he'd agree with me all he wants is a nice, warm and loving woman he can spend positive time with.

He has hobbies and interests.

"Whether religious or secular this is where security and happiness comes from; this is why two people can work the same job, one will despise it and the other will enjoy it, because the first person sees it as just a means to an end to get a paycheck, while the other person sees it as a way to contribute to society and utilize their talents."

Where does happiness 'come from' if you do not work, are not in education, have no relationship and minimal friends, and already do have your hobbies but they aren't satisfying enough.

I disagree with the concept that happiness comes purely from within - it comes from both internal and external factors.

We are animals, we can not always choose when we are happy or not.

Sometimes happiness is determined by our brain releasing massive amounts of Dopamine and Endorphin chemicals into our body in reaction to a certain stimuli.

We can't just tell people with depression to 'just be happy'. Even if they can see the happiness in something, their brain may not react appropriately by releasing the chemicals that bring the person pleasure.

This is why people with depression don't enjoy the same hobbies they used to. It's not because they're choosing to be miserable, it's that they simply can't.

Massive amounts of evidence already show some forms of depression are purely chemical, and not determined by level of success in life or social happiness.

The fact there are rich people with depression is a testament to this.

"Doesn't matter whether you're "famous" or a "politician" - you need a deeper sense of meaning behind the things you do, such as making the world a better place, contributing to society, etc.

If your only purpose in life is just to "have things" (including relationships) then you'll never be secure since nothing in this physical world is permanent."

Have things that make one happy, and DO give them a deeper purpose.

Having a relationship can give one a deeper meaning behind eat, sleep and poop.

It can give some depressed people a reason to live - they now have someone who they can love, support, cherish and make happy. They can work hard to improve themselves as a person for this person they love.

They can fight for this person/these people they love, whether it be their S.O., good friends, family or random strangers they are fighting for.

Fighting for the military to protect the people of your country (a 'higher purpose' as you call it) or simply having someone that loves you and you love them, are not mutually exclusive, and can both bring a 'higher purpose' to one's life in their own unique ways.

"Tu quoque - the same truth applies to women. Even if clingy women don't tend to be "as much" of a turn-off as clingy men, if a woman has no sense of purpose in her life other than "finding a man" she'll be just as insecure."

What do you mean by 'insecure'? Just wondering.

It's because some want to go mutually exclusive early.

There's a lot of advice advising against young males to just make things happen 'naturally' as it can result in us getting 'friendzoned'.

When I say 'friendzoned', I do not mean some arbitary zone that women intentionally put a guy in, I'm talking about if a man and woman hang out a lot together and are both attracted to each other but the man doesn't act, the woman may suspect he is not interested and then focus on trying to meet and dating other people, and by the time the man acts it is already too late, and even if she is still single she may not be attracted to him anymore because that ship has sailed.

The opposite is also true,.

I can perfectly understand why aspie males, who tend to significantly struggles with even getting a few dates let a lone a girlfriend, will constantly overthink and worry if they're doing the right things, whether they're moving too fast or too slow, etc. because when they didn't focus on these things they only ended up screwing up and accidentally befriended a woman they wanted to date, or took things too slow, or took things too fast, etc.

We want to lock 'em in and confirm things while we still can.

It's like comparing a blooming relationship to fishing.

When you get a bite, any sort of sign you're about to attain what you desire, you don't just sit back and wait. You reel that sh•t in while you can!

Also, personally I have severe Generalized Anxiety Disorder, so I stress and worry about everything, and relationships are 10x worse.

It didn't help my first relationship was so dysfunctional and awful (NO, I did not settle, before anyone thinks I did. I genuinely liked her, at least at first) and if I was worried and stressed she'd break up with me, she did, and if I thought I was doing great and everything was fine, she still would.

True love only comes from purpose in life, it doesn't exist in any transient physical thing of this universe, even people, all of which eventually become dust.

Even if people are social animals, a purposeful mind gives more companionship than any physical being.

Is this really helpful though? Relationships are fluid; one may be locked in one day and broken up the next. I don't think the kind of security you're looking for exists.

Outrider, you have *a lot* of wisdom for a 17 year old. Heck, most adults would never come to the conclusions you have.

Hah! Not everyone has to try to give up. I've been spending a considerable amount of mental energy not to implicitly give up ever since I was twenty-two. At that age—already comfortably older than you're today, funnily enough—is when it first occurred to me to stop tacitly accepting that I simply had no business thinking of dating or relationships as something which could be part of my life.

This effort hasn't done me any measurable good, but, on a purely intellectual level, I refuse to give up because that would finally guarantee my failure to experience what I want, even though I'm all but guaranteed to meet this fate anyway.