Long friendship with Aspie . . . I give up

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I remember a while ago watching a YouTube clip of Tony Attwood where he talks about what he calls "Aspie faulty logic". Now, I'm not sure I totally agree with this idea (I certainly don't like the name), but it may shed a little light.

Basically, what he says, is that people on the spectrum tend to see the world in terms of hard, concrete facts. So, to take this case of me loving somebody. Because it is a fact in "my world", it is therefore one of the many things which are true about the universe, my partner exists in that same universe, therefore must have access to the same facts.

Therefore, the person I love will know it simply because I know it, in the same way that I would not need to tell them that is is raining because if it raining, the other person can see that it is. So, it isn't so much that we don't want the other person to know, it's just that our "theory of mind" kids us into thinking that the other person must already know.

As I say, this is quite a controversial idea, but I certainly can't dismiss it completely as an explanation for some of my own behaviour towards loved ones.

Anyone who doesn't believe me, simply read imhere's posting history.

It's been explained to this person over and over how we are different from her, she has proven that she is either incapable of understanding or unwilling to try. She just wants to tell us how abusive we are for being different instead of getting the therapy she needs or finding a new source of drama and attention.

This is something I have discussed with real life people (not a forum). The thing about casual friendship is that people don't hang around long enough to care about someone when they act a certain way towards them. I think, and this is opinion only, but I do have an unusual number of aspies in my professional life due to the line of work I am in (computers, so go ahead, yell about the stereotype, but it's true here, my best workers are all aspies) so I've observed things from a distance (I only happened to THINK I was close on a personal level with one of them)...I think that most of the time deep friendships between aspie and NTs don't happen very often because it is so hard to get close to an aspie and people don't take the time to bother trying to understand them--not mean, but a fact of life. Most people are not that willing to work so darn hard for "just a friend". But sometimes it does happen, and it is more than a casual acquaintance, the friendship is deeper than that. And since most people would discard a friendship under some of the circumstances discussed here and many other places, people usually don't bother to discuss or worry about it, and there is no support for it--most people go off and find another friend.

Trogluddite that makes so much sense. It often feels as if my friend just thinks I know what he is feeling, thinking or planning. Some of our upsets are due to this.

So another thing. We have sorted out the issue that was upsetting me and frustrating me last night. However I have a question . . . .. do you pre empt issues and put barriers up before they have even occurred.? My friend has just told me we need to change some plans we had, I’m fine with this, but I wonder if he thought I would be upset and this is why he was being strange yesterday.

Does that make sense?
And hurtloam I know you mean well . . .. but remember I only come here when I have an issue. . . . Most of the time we have a good friendship. I certainly don’t want to walk away over misunderstandings because we think differently, yes it’s tough but so are many things worth having.

That still does t explain why the 2 of you post about friendships in the LOVE AND DATING section. Why not post these questions in the main forum or the friendship and social skills section? A lot more users use the main autistic questions forum and it's less hostile than the L&D forum.

I have answered this question before. I get better honest replies here . .. . . It is a deep and emotional friendship but not a sexual one

Please do read my posts. You'll see how deeply I care for one particular aspie in this world and how I'd do anything for him and I want more than anything in the world to just simply know if he ever cared for me at all. And if he actually did, and I knew that, I could be at peace. If not, then I would have do to whatever it takes in my heart to move on. But the purgatory of not understanding and not knowing and getting negative feedback leaking together with positive feedback might as well be hell. It's the lack of closure and the knowing that the Asperger's might be a factor in the negative treatment that keeps me hanging on to the fantasy that he cares. Like I've said before, if I didn't know about the Asperger's, I would really think he was an a***hole and it wouldn't bother me...it's easy to dislike or even hate someone because they are a mean cold-hearted robot. There really are mean cold-hearted robots in the world, so how do you know the difference between someone who really doesn't give a darn about you and someone who just can't express that they do? I honestly wish I didn't know about his asperger's, it would be a lot easier. But it's a pile of unending hurt to be treated that way and believe that somewhere deep inside them, they MIGHT actually care for you, but you have no access to this golden forbidden knowledge.

And some of you would say just forget it and move on, just forget about him, it's not healthy for you anyway regardless of how he feels in the end. But isn't that what most people are doing to you? Isn't that what hurts you? Isn't this precisely the reason that people with asperger's can't seem to maintain friendships and relationships, because people walk away from you? Yet, "IMHERE". Still holding on.

This. Ignore them.

Ann, we sometimes expect people who know us well to know our minds well, at a given moment. It's just one of those things. Not always, but often enough. Not really sure what to suggest except just ask every time you are unsure else it will be a stalemate guessing game between you two. And if you are ok with something, just reassure them that you are.

Preparing for multiple scenarios is something Aspies sometimes do..
I must ask this, though, is there a chance the guy you like isn't sexual?

This is insightful. I don't know what to do about it though.

Edit: I remember once my aspie friend said to me that he appreciated having someone who understands what he is saying, but then he suffixed his comment with "at least when I am speaking out loud". Wow. I never understood what he meant until you posted this.

Imhere don’t know if it helps but for a long time if I asked my friend how he felt about me he used to get cross or accuse me of asking stupid questions or say “I wouldn’t be here if I didn’t like you”etc etc . . . . .. . Now if I ask him he tells me he loves me. I think it probably just took a long time to for him to be sure of how he felt. And it never wavers even if we are having an argument he will say “yes I do love you” if I ask.

Usually I ask it as a sort of joke, I am a very emotional and demonstrative person. For a long time if joking he would just stick his tongue out as an answer or say “why what do you want” - then one day he shocked me by saying yes I love you loads . . . . .since then he hasn’t changed his answer.

Never, ever, have I said a negative thing about my apsie friend. I think he is the most amazing person I have ever met. I respect and admire him for everything he is and all that he accomplishes. My relationship with him meant the world to me, that is why it hurt when it was ripped away. There are many things I do not understand about him. He has said mean and cruel things to me and he has stopped speaking to me altogether. What he has said and his withdrawal hurt me deeply and I am not over it. But I have never said a negative thing about him. Ever. In fact, when others have called him an arse recently, I defended him. When he was out of line with other people at work including other superiors, I defended him to colleagues. And never, ever, have I said a single unkind thing about him. Ever.

My friend wouldn't answer that question, I don't think he knew how. But the ironic thing is that he asked me a bunch of times how I felt about him. I answered his questions every time, but it was a question that came up enough that I think he was insecure about how I felt about him and needed to know that....kind of ironic to need that feedback but not realize that the same feedback was needed in the other direction.

How is he the most amazing person if he did and said cruel things?

I have to admit that made me chuckle with recognition!

This is kind of embarrassing, but the words "I love you" are incredibly hard for me to say - not because of a lack of love, but because I just can't get the words out. The trouble is, that I am incredibly self-conscious about how I speak. I have quite a soft, monotonous voice and am terrible for mumbling (unusual prosody is pretty common for autistic people.) Unfortunately, I've gotten very, very used to this being misinterpreted as lack of enthusiasm, insincerity, aloofness, or even an attempt at deception. When I try to get the words "I love you" out of my mouth, my tongue and lips just seem to turn to jelly because I am utterly convinced that, despite the feeling being genuine, the words will come out sounding insincere, which to me, seems like it would be worse than not saying it at all.


You could be onto something there. I recommend a look at the posts here about "Alexithymia". It's not a condition in it's own right, but is a set of traits connected with a person's ability to identify their own feelings. It is terribly hard to describe, but as an Alexithymic person, I can be aware that I'm experiencing an incredibly powerful feeling (to the point of tears even), yet take quite some time to identify which emotion it is, or what event or person it is associated with. Naturally, this makes it impossible to put into words.

When an Alexithymic person says that they don't know how they feel, it is very likely to be an honest answer. But, it is very easy to misinterpret Alexithymia as deliberate avoidance of a subject, or to assume that the person's emotion is negative just because they find it hard to express. Feeling under pressure to answer just makes it harder to work out what the feeling is. Gently offering some suggestions as to what the feeling might be, or just making clear that some time to think is available, would probably be better in the long run than just pushing harder for an answer in a situation like that.

Thank you for that. It’s v helpful talking to you. Yes I have long been sure he experiences alexythmia . . .actually it is one of the first personal things he ever told me that he “mostly has no idea what he is feeling” he says the main emotions he feels and recognises are happiness and mild irritation.

Certainly there have been times when I feel by his body posture etc that I have annoyed him, and he will be adamant that I haven’t . . .but his reactions are as if he is annoyed. The problem being that we can’t then discuss the issue as he doesn’t recognise that he is miffed.

Emotional stuff is difficult but he is getting better at dealing with times when I am upset. If I have something physically wrong tho he is constantly checking I am ok. Have I been resting, have I seen a doctor etc etc . . . Emotionally he doesn’t know so well what to do . . . . In fact recently when I was upset he started looking around saying “what will cheer you up” he found cake and tried to feed it to me. . . . ,which made me laugh so worked anyway , ,