Treading Carefully

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Thanks for the added advice. I did read Chain's input carefully, and it is helpful indeed. I'm very clear on where things went off-the-rails in our communication and inter-relating, and can certainly acknowledge my part.

But frankly -- while this particular Aspie has many excellent qualities -- taking responsibility for his role in our past miscommunications is not one of them. (Oh, he may seem apologetic or take ownership of his role initially, that's true. But after a day or two it will have morphed into him perceiving that I "criticized" or "attacked" him in some unanticipated way. This is usually followed by a few days of silence from him).

And I accept this about him. I'm a strong-minded woman and don't capitulate to this, which I think is something he respects. But it means that any overtures for friendship, and a proposed clear plan for making it a reality, will have to be delicately phrased.

Lots of aspies are like this... it can be a real "mosh pit".

Remember the old serenity prayer?

God, give me grace to accept with serenity
the things that cannot be changed,
Courage to change the things
which should be changed,
and the Wisdom to distinguish
the one from the other.

You don't really need God for the wisdom part...

what you cannot change:

The Past
The Future
Other People
Your Feelings

what you can:
Your Attitude

You can hope he might change but you cannot change him. He needs to change his attitude but you can't change that. You can only admit your part and give him time to examine his. If he uses your part to make you feel bad... I would let him go.

Hi Chain,

Thank you, very wise Prayer for sure.

To be clear, I'm not trying to change him -- to the contrary, I'm trying to adapt my potential "re-approach" towards friendship (should I chose to make one) with the knowledge that this sort of reciprocity around taking responsibility is not one of his many strengths.

So I'm assessing the situation using the express premise that this aspect of our connection will NOT change. And I'm trying to govern myself accordingly, when deciding what to do.

Appreciate your help especially, Chain.

It sounds like you desire a relationship with him be it romantic or friendship, so I vote YES.

So the first thing about dealing with Aspies is be direct. Speak your mind clearly and don't varnish things. Express your feelings clearly. But on the other hand, give him time to think things over.

Aspies tend to communicate better in writing than orally.

Also always be completely honest with him. Say what you mean and mean what you say.

Also one other comment. Many Aspies experience extreme bullying when they were in school. And these scars, they carry throughout the remainder of their lives. As a result many Aspies have a hard time dealing with criticism.

If you were called stupid, an idiot, not worthy of even being born. Then to keep your sanity, you develop a think skin and also reject all criticism.

But there are two forms of criticism: destructive criticism and constructive criticism. And it is important for an Aspie to learn the difference. So you might explain to him that you care about him and that you would never do anything that would harm him. If you criticize him, it will always be constructive criticism. You have his best interest at heart and you just wish to improve his life, to compliment his life.

You touch upon something here, that I would love to have explained to me more fully. If only so that I can navigate better through any future minefields, if it comes to that.

Yes, if a person was constantly criticized while growing up, I can see how he or she would rejected actual criticism.
But it seems to be common in Aspies to perceive criticism, where objectively none exists and is not intended by the speaker. I have seen this reported in the literature quite a bit.

With my Aspie Ex, I would sometimes take pains to preface my comments with, "This is not a criticism, but ...." or "This is an observation, not a complaint....". And then what followed was a genuinely constructive and carefully-worded comment, I thought. Yet often he would nonetheless 'hear' an attack or criticism when none was intended. And no matter how minor the comment or topic, I was viewed as "attacking who he was, as a person."

Or, if there were two potential interpretations of what I said, he would never give me the benefit of the doubt; he would aways default to assuming my meaning was sinister/critical rather than helpful. I even asked him if it made rational sense that a person who cared for him (me) would be constantly attacking him more often than not.

So: Rejecting real criticism -- sure. I get that. But why is there (apparently) a predisposition in Aspies towards hearing harsh and comprehensive criticism where none is intended?

I would love to understand this, because it was someting that baffled me and seemed unavoidable despite my best attempts at circumvention.

Depends on him and you but for not even few people on the spectrum it's hard to realize the romantic feelings of a women towards them. Beside of this do many people crush in case of having really fun together and a common sense of humor. For this could be opening regarding having a more fun together and joking more and being a lot more direct later help to change the feelings and to establish an romantic relationship. At least you know afterwards whether you are really compatible.

Q: How many psychiatrists does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: One, but the lightbulb has got to want to change.

Anyone have any input on the "perceived criticism" question of mine?

TL:DR Would like advice on sparking the platonic interest/friendship of a male AS guy that I formerly dated.

As the posts below have chronicled. I am a female NT, I dated a male AS guy on/off for two years. We parted ways late last year (his choice) but he has reached out several times since. I would love to stay friends (only).

I took the advice of Chain and some others on the Forum, and after waiting about two months, have asked him to a casual dinner next week. He replied promptly and (I think) warmly. He has said in the past that he misses me.

Fnord said that to develop the friendship, I should become "interesting" to him. I don't want it to become about what I can DO for him as a friend (e.g. invite him for meals) but rather I want our friendship to be based on mutual interest in each other. So that I get satisfaction out of it too.

I know this is esoteric but I'd like advice on how best to connect so that a friendship can grow. I know he enjoys that I challenge him. We respect each other's intellect (we are both highly intelligent) and share some fascination around wordplay but I don't think he has any Special Interest -- at least that I can see.

So what traits in others spark an AS person's curiosity and interest? Thanks in advance.

Have you told him?
Does he accept that?

Not yet. I intended to cover it during the dinner. Should I do so before we meet?

I gather Pepe you think he may have agreed to come either to explore a reconciliation, or (more likely) to accept any no-strings sex that I might be offering?

Either way, I can ask him for his wants directly, over dinner. I'd still love some advice on how to foster a friendship, if he's amenable.

Last edited by Happy_Fun_Ball on 30 Aug 2020, 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

YMMV, but in my experience, those of us on the spectrum tend to have a lot of "criticism baggage" that takes DECADES to offload and even then it is never totally offloaded IOW psychic scars remain for life and will forever [maladaptively] color our response to life in general, even the mildest critiques/differences in particular. no matter what some of us want, hermithood is the only thing that "works" for us. i suspect your erstwhile mate may be in this situation. my breaks for him. he will be the one who ultimately decides to go one way or another.

Perhaps he will he be expecting more after dinner.
If so, it might be better to prepare him that it isn't going to happen.
I would like to be told beforehand, in his position, rather than have my hopes dashed.



He is a male. It is possible he would like some intimacy, but not all aspie males are like that. <shrug>
You know him better than I do, I imagine.

Thank you. This has been a really helpful answer. Historically my perceived (but wholly unintended) "criticisms" had been a sticking point that prevented the romantic relationship from growing. I'd love to get a better handle on it so that it doesn't cloud any potential friendship.

Very enlightening. Thanks again.

Last edited by Happy_Fun_Ball on 30 Aug 2020, 8:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

have you tried positive feedback when he does get it right?