Do men dismiss feminism as bad too much?

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It's because of feminism that women can now serve their countries, instead of being forced to waste five years watching the harbour lights.

Well, we went from talking about Feminism as a whole to talking about women who want to get with alpha-males, how they only want to date the top 20% of males, [Insert next list of complaints here].

SharonB I wish it was about "People-ism" instead of "Feminism" or "Mens-Rights". At this point both of each group just seem like they hate the opposite gender for some reason or another, I feel like the movements are splitting everybody apart and solving nothing than bringing people together and making a better society. Hence why it takes less than a page for the dating arguments to start and what gender has it "worse" as far as life goes. All I hear these days are "Women date only top 20% of men!" and "Women only go for money, status, and looks" the female equivalent? "I don't need a man in my life(or another woman telling her that)" and "There are no good men left". Such a sad society we live in right now...

I think they can serve and should be allowed to. But whether they can do the same as a man in terms of strength and endurance is another matter.

Any discussion of women's rights does seem to attract incels, misogynists, and toxic males in general.

Truth.

Which one of those are we Fnord?

I think I do understand it. Feminism aims at promoting the interests & desires of women, and not of men or what is best for society. Since there are inherent conflicts between the interests of men and women, feminism leads to men being discriminated against and the best of society is not achieved when the gender conflict is biased to fulfill the desires of women at the expense of the desires of men. Actually, most of the gender conflict is a zero-sum game.

Last edited by rdos on 15 Jul 2021, 3:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

Since when was women "requiring their partners to earn more money than themselves" a specifically feminist thing??? It is primarily non-feminist or even anti-feminist women (or at least those who don't feel entitled to equal rights in the workplace) who require this. Insofar as women in general tend to feel entitled to men who earn more than themselves, it's at least partly because men, on average, earn more money than women. Those who accept the latter state of affairs as inevitable are more likely, not less likely, to want a man who earns more money than themselves.

Last edited by Mona Pereth on 15 Jul 2021, 3:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

I'd rather say that women's preference that their partner earns more than themselves largely worked because men on average earned more than women. However, when the income gets more equal (something I certainly support and have no problem with), this gets maladaptive. What needs to happen is that women stop requiring partners to earn more than themselves, but feminism is not concerned with lobbying for this since it is a desire of women and feminism is about protecting women's desires. And so we end up in a maladaptive situation where many women with high-paying jobs cannot find a partner because of their own requirements. We also get a group of low-payed men that cannot find a partner.

Its curious to see NT women who call themselves feminists choosing to marry or date men who earn much more than them.

These same women castigate men who fat-shame yet they would never date-marry a man shorter than them.

Seems corners are cut to gain equality.

Agreed. And I must point out that it is mainly NT women that have these preferences as part of their evolutionary baggage.



Selecting for length is much less of a problem since nature adapted to this by making men on average taller than women. Thus, this doesn't create large sub-populations that have nobody to pair up with.

I wouldn't have a problem except the same NT women will say its disgraceful when men wouldn't date a girl who is fat or who is not attractive. Seems like a double standard.

Hi iron pony. I don't really understand your post. Are you actually saying that feminism is good because it makes women more sexually attractive. Have I gone back in time? Is it 1973?

Feminism is about women's rights. It is not necessarily about "protecting women's desires."


Agreed that that's a maladaptive situation. However, if we lived in a society where women on average earned the same as men, more and more women would eventually recognize that the desire for a man who earns more than them is old-fashioned and unrealistic. Alas it would likely take at least a decade or two, maybe longer, for this reality to fully sink in to most women's heads, but it would eventually sink in.

EDIT: It would also help a lot if government policies were to change to make general income inequality less steep. Because of the shrinking middle class, it seems to me that a lot of people, both men and women, may have gotten more obsessed with the social and economic status of their partner than they were a few decades ago.


Both low-payed men and at least some low-payed women too, actually -- partly due to disincentives caused by government policies. Some changes in government policy could help a lot here, e.g. (here in the U.S.A.) a less steep marriage penalty for SSI and SSDI.

Last edited by Mona Pereth on 15 Jul 2021, 9:04 am, edited 2 times in total.

However, reality seems to be that everyone wants to "marry up" -- that is, most people seem to want a relationship with someone who is better-looking, wealthier, and of a higher social status than they are.

It is certainly possible for things like "Affirmative Action" to be carried too far, and I agree that it's not a good thing when that happens. But how often does this actually happen?