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juliekitty
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12 Aug 2007, 5:59 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Women flock to him and I think its the fact that his kindness is backed up with a degree of quiet confidence that they couldn't miss to save their lives.


Bingo!

heartless b*****s wrote:
I think the problem is this. The guys who perpetuate the cry, "Women just don't like nice guys" are spending too much time feeling sorry for themselves. They are in truth, egotistical. They are focusing on themselves and then blaming women for their own problems rather than seeing the true root cause of their situation. I speak from experience. I spent a great deal of time feeling sorry for myself and buying into that same myth. It is so critically important, in my opinion, for a guy to come to the point where he is happy with himself and his life and is secure and confident in who he is BEFORE he tries to get into a relationship. If he enters a relationship without being confident and secure, then he is only going to dump his problems, his insecurities, and his self pity on the women he tries to end up with. I believe that it is self-pity, lack of self-esteem and lack of self-respect that women find unattractive. And these things only lead to a lack of respect for women and their views and opinions, feelings and needs.


Nicely put.



techstepgenr8tion
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12 Aug 2007, 6:02 pm

juliekitty wrote:
heartless b*****s wrote:
I think the problem is this. The guys who perpetuate the cry, "Women just don't like nice guys" are spending too much time feeling sorry for themselves. They are in truth, egotistical. They are focusing on themselves and then blaming women for their own problems rather than seeing the true root cause of their situation. I speak from experience. I spent a great deal of time feeling sorry for myself and buying into that same myth. It is so critically important, in my opinion, for a guy to come to the point where he is happy with himself and his life and is secure and confident in who he is BEFORE he tries to get into a relationship. If he enters a relationship without being confident and secure, then he is only going to dump his problems, his insecurities, and his self pity on the women he tries to end up with. I believe that it is self-pity, lack of self-esteem and lack of self-respect that women find unattractive. And these things only lead to a lack of respect for women and their views and opinions, feelings and needs.


Nicely put.


So Jules, you think that might have been David D writing under a pseudonym? In particular its the "I spent a great deal of time feeling sorry for myself and buying into that same myth".



juliekitty
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12 Aug 2007, 6:16 pm

Nah, couldn't be Dave D. He only put one word in all caps.

I definitely think Dave's the best of the worst. He has some good points.

I'm just not down with the "negs".



gekitsu
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12 Aug 2007, 7:32 pm

what seems to be real hard for AS guys is that there arent many who would believe in honest niceness. my best friend (girl) once put it like that: "you know... you are too good (morally, in this context) for this world out there" i guess the aspie way of just feeling affection for someone and acting accordingly (benevolent but clumsy) reeks of badly played pretend-niceness with an ulterior motive.

re edges and being genuine: i hope that doesnt mean i should be all confrontational about me being myself. i mean, i just am... there may be different points of view about certain issues between me and someone else, so what? we can talk about it, if interesting for both of us, exchange our arguments we have for it, eventually understand the others reasoning... but i think it to be very childish to stress the edginess or genuinity issue overly. yet, this seems to come across as uncaring.
its a fine line, it seems.



calandale
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12 Aug 2007, 7:35 pm

I don't see why everone's upset that
nice guys suck. Or lick. Seems only
proper, to me.



TheMachine1
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12 Aug 2007, 7:46 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Women flock to him and I think its the fact that his kindness is backed up with a degree of quiet confidence that they couldn't miss to save their lives.


The confidence trait is likely the most important. Typical asperger gaze avoidance tells a women rapidly and non-verbally your either not interested and/or lack confidence.



Jainaday
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12 Aug 2007, 9:47 pm

Confidence, and how they see you. . . a lot of the stuff on the red flag list would be fine if the guy honestly sees the girl as a human being with a different set of priorities than himself, rather than. . . say. .. a creature he doesn't particularly want to be around but must humour for the sake of sex.

Edit- lso, Calandale. . . I've wondered that myself. . .


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12 Aug 2007, 10:44 pm

Although the website is great fun to look through, it generalizes & stereotypes members of either gender. If you go to this website, be forewarned: Some generalizations may not apply to all.

http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/ ... list.shtml

I'm an Aspie & do not talk much out of fear of saying something really dumb.


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Pugly
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12 Aug 2007, 11:11 pm

gekitsu wrote:
what seems to be real hard for AS guys is that there arent many who would believe in honest niceness. my best friend (girl) once put it like that: "you know... you are too good (morally, in this context) for this world out there" i guess the aspie way of just feeling affection for someone and acting accordingly (benevolent but clumsy) reeks of badly played pretend-niceness with an ulterior motive.


I think there is some truth to that.


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12 Aug 2007, 11:43 pm

A lot of those "red flags" seemed to be either completely trivial or things that people with AS could not avoid:

Quote:
#10. He has no hobbies other than watching TV

#25. He calls his mother everyday and for every thing that comes up in his daily life

#29. He doesn't like to go to social places like bars, where there are a lot of people and possible attention on you from other men

#37. He mentions how he has a high IQ, and not many people "understand him."

#40. When you ask him why he's so quiet, he says, "I only say what needs to be said." He mentions the beauty of silence, and how so many people fill up the air with unnessessary vocalizations. BARF.

#42. He is a film critic, a history major, and poet. You are almost intimidated by his "artsy" side. He is intelligent, well-versed, and well educated. You think to youself, "How did I snag such a GREAT guy?" As time goes by, you notice that his film reviews (especially historical war films) and poetry are the ONLY areas he "comes alive." You wonder why he has such a strong connection to certain things, yet emotionally he's aloof.

#48. Is over socially opinionated. At first you think he's well educated, and become intrigued some of the odd facts he knows. Later you realize all these facts add up to the whole, "fighting the good fight" mentality. He's always trying to seek justice, prove wrong, pinpoint facts, find the irony, uncover the conspiracy, etc. His brain is infatuated with this s**t. It's all part of the "holier than thou" mindset, how he has everything "figured out" and you should feel proud to be with such a brave man. GAG.

#50. If you ever once, just for one second, see a frightening, mad, staring-eyed look on his face that isn’t the result of something at least as horrifying as him having just been bitten by a venomous snake (i.e if you’ve just suggested you both visit some friends of yours) then no matter how fleeting it was or how deeply you think you care for him, either run for the hills or change the locks (depending on whose house it is). Ignore this one and it could cost you your life.

#56. Over 30 with no car, no phone (cell or otherwise) and/or a history of changing residences and/or jobs multiple times in the last year.

#59. Despite his obvious mental angst [or perhaps because of it...] he completely rejects the idea of professional therapy as a sham, preferring to confide in YOU, because, well, YOU are so much better at understanding him and his troubled life than some overpaid professional "quack."

#65. Men who have juvenile hobbies such as comic book or action figure collections. This is a huge sign that they're not all the way grown up.

#78. Something about him "creeps out" or unnerves other friends or family members.

#88. He/she talks about looking for a "soul mate" or "someone to complete me".

#91. He has no friends of the opposite sex.

#92. He has no friends period.

#93. He has people he calls "friends" but he very rarely, (or *never* calls) them, goes out with them or does anything with them.

#94. His "friends" are total flakes, crackpots and emotionally disturbed people. (Healthy people attract Healthy friends. Unhealthy people attract UNhealthy friends.)

#95. He/She abandons his/her current "friends" at the start of your relationship, and practically never sees them, never does anything with them anymore - he/she is completely focussed on YOU.

#96. He has no spine- lets you do whatever you want, never says NO. Says things like, "Whatever you do." or "It's up to you."

#98. He thinks WWF wrestling is culture.

#109. He seems like a "lost puppy" in need of care. (Get help for yourself for even being attracted.)

#120. He is constantly "down" and has a variety of excuses - his back hurts, he doesn't get enough light, you are keeping him awake at night so he doesn't get enough sleep, he hasn't had enough to eat that day, etc.

#133. She doesn't eat. [not sure if the author means anorexia or is just ranting about skinny people]

#136. Over 30 and still living at home.

#137. His/her whole social life revolves around his/her parents.

#140. His entire wardrobe consists of clothes from trade shows like Comdex, bearing the logos of software and gaming companies.

#144. She still calls her mother every time she has to make a major life decision.

#145. He/she says things like "you're everything to me. I can't live without you."

#149. He shows signs of pennypinching. For example, a guy who only goes to the rep theatre because he has a special card, and then won't even buy a popcorn but eats out of your container all night and shares your soda. Then won't even go out for a beer after, even if it's a weekend. His clothes are ten years old or more.



calandale
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12 Aug 2007, 11:47 pm

Yeah. But most people really don't want
an aspie for a mate.



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13 Aug 2007, 12:49 am

I read articles on that site, and they only validated what I believed for over a year by now: looking for a relationship with a woman just isn't worth the effort nowadays. The good-looking, super-charming guys can still find a girlfriend, but the rest are left to rot in the dust. I just avoid being treated like that, and instead do what more people should do: see an escort whenever I need a fix. Every time except one, the experience was nothing short of wonderful: the girl was very sweet and warm, the sex was mind-blowing, she looked totally hot, and the conversations with her were fun. I think it's a much better alternative than constantly getting the Heartless b*****s treatment.



Pugly
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13 Aug 2007, 12:56 am

Aspie1 wrote:
I read articles on that site, and they only validated what I believed for over a year by now: looking for a relationship with a woman just isn't worth the effort nowadays. The good-looking, super-charming guys can still find a girlfriend, but the rest are left to rot in the dust. I just avoid being treated like that, and instead do what more people should do: see an escort whenever I need a fix. Every time except one, the experience was nothing short of wonderful: the girl was very sweet and warm, the sex was mind-blowing, she looked totally hot, and the conversations with her were fun. I think it's a much better alternative than constantly getting the Heartless b*****s treatment.


In a strange twisted way... I agree. (well not about going to see an escort)

If you just want to go out and have sex... well then yeah... the whole dating/girlfriend does seem like a big waste of time.

I want a real relationship, one where we both care and understand each other deeply... one where sex isn't the most important thing. A relationship that connects on a fundamental level that goes beyond my loins...

Even if I didn't see going to an escort as morally wrong, I still wouldn't go to one... I have desires that go beyond what an escort could satisfy.


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Guess I could pretend that this is all I need
Wanting more than what I have might appear as greed.


samtoo
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13 Aug 2007, 8:06 am

lol I wouldn't care about what the people on that site think.
Being a 'nice guy' is an underrated thing. I personally think that the people who revert to being 'ruthless' and 'cruel' have taken a very easy option... I think you have a much better leg to stand on if you manage to get through life being a 'nice guy' it's not easy, but if you manage this it's very good and you will claim a LOT of respect.

But then there's different levels and categories of 'niceness'... hmm... well you get what I mean lol. :D


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0_equals_true
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13 Aug 2007, 8:14 am

samtoo wrote:
lol I wouldn't care about what the people on that site think.
Being a 'nice guy' is an underrated thing. I personally think that the people who revert to being 'ruthless' and 'cruel' have taken a very easy option... I think you have a much better leg to stand on if you manage to get through life being a 'nice guy' it's not easy, but if you manage this it's very good and you will claim a LOT of respect.

But then there's different levels and categories of 'niceness'... hmm... well you get what I mean lol. :D

definately



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13 Aug 2007, 8:55 am

She puts "(tm)" next to Nice Guys throughout the entire website as an excuse to say whatever she wants about us. If she's wrong, she can just say, "Oh, that's not what I meant by Nice Guys (tm)." I, for one, don't think she should soil our name with her rude prejudices.

"Unfortunately, many of the guys who DO have trouble, insist on laying blame and asserting that women don't want them because they are too 'Nice'. These people who call themselves 'Nice Guys' can't see that THEIR OWN behavior is the problem."

What nice guys worry about is that genetics is often the problem. Instead of giving in to the cruelty of competition (think of guys who talk about "losers"), we recognize the problems of sexual selection and help people who are less fortunate. If there weren't any Nice Guys, there would be a lot more suffering in the world.

"Nice guys will spend two days in bed crying whenever you try to give them even the most tactful constructive criticism."

Prejudiced comment.

"What's wrong with Nice Guys? The biggest problem is that most Nice Guys (tm) are hideously insecure. They are so anxious to be liked and loved that they do things for other people to gain acceptance and attention, rather than for the simply pleasure of giving."

First of all, an act of giving is an act of giving. It's awfully picky to bring motive into it. Second, of course we're anxious to be liked. Almost everyone is.

"Self-confident, caring, decent-hearted women find 'Nice Guys' to be too clingy, self-abasing, and insecure."

Another prejudiced comment. See where she's going with this? She thinks she gets to say whatever she wants about us.

"Nice Guys rarely speak up when something bothers them, and rarely state clearly what it is they want, need and expect."

Wrong. I do.

After reading her little genetic theory about "nice guy, jerk" genes and "interesting, boring" genes, I decided she was too ignorant to comment any further. Don't let stupid women keep you from being nice to people.


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