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LePetitPrince
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20 Jan 2008, 7:05 am

lonelyLady wrote:
i_Am_andaJoy wrote:
lonelyLady wrote:
juliekitty wrote:
There are lots of submissive men looking for dominant women.


where???


why? you want one? i've got one you can have.
(look for a NT "nice-guy" who is always stuck being "just friends' with women, and there ya go.)


I have one--he isn't submissive though, just a nice guy who is "just friends" with me. I am madly in love with him, I've never wanted anyone as much as I want him. He doesn't care 2 cents for me though :(


You are allowing this 'friendship' because you still have hope that he'll like you one day - big mistake.



0_equals_true
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20 Jan 2008, 7:52 am

WurdBendur wrote:
The theory does say that in practice the number will be far smaller unless the group is under great pressure for survival. It's a maximum number, after all, not an average.

Yeah.. it's a joke.

WurdBendur wrote:
Who said anything about swarming? We're talking about herd behavior, which is a different thing.


Swarming is an example of a group behaviour which is a good comparison to herding. If you take the argument that nature (as opposed nurcher) is a large part of our behaviour then you might say that swarming has something to do with herding, shoaling, schooling or flocking perhaps.

Strictly speaking it would be difficult to say that ague the great apes 'heard' because they don't really cohabit in such large number that you could say they form a herd. However we are talking about 'herd behaviour' as defined as:

Quote:
Herd behaviour describes how individuals in a group can act together without planned direction. The term pertains to the behaviour of animals in herds, flocks, and schools, and to human conduct during activities such as stock market bubbles and crashes, street demonstrations, sporting events, episodes of mob violence and even everyday decision making, judgement and opinion forming.


That is definitely something you get in great apes like for instance how a group of chimpanzees will come across another group stalk them then rush to attack them.

In human herd behaviour is a very bizarre phenomenon, which does obviously invoke some primal urges.

People out on a days shopping is not enough to say they are exhibiting herd behaviour. However if there is a limited cut price sale that is about to open that is a good example of herd behaviour. Much like the disturbance at Ikea the other year. What is interesting about these herd behaviours is they are simultaneously competing (trying to get the limited goods first), whilst also working together to push the doors down. To some extent working together is form of protection of interest, despite the risk of being crushed. Once the doors open they will all rush toward the good that they want so the herd will split into 'sub herds', then back into individuals as they leave the checkout.

The crucial difference here compared with chimpanzees is this mob behaviour is invoked by a neme beforehand (the promotion of the sale). So I would have to say there is a degree of planning involved even when it gets out of hand. Chimpanzee groups mobbing other chimpanzee groups is nothing out of the ordinary. They are naturally congregating in groups. You wouldn’t even say it is cultural because it is in the interest of all chimpanzee groups to do it.

Ok that is just one example of herd behaviour in humans, they don't necessarily have to be doing it purely for their own immediate benefit. ‘Flash mobs’ are an example of this.

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Ok, maybe I'm not the best flash mob organizer, but the point is, they do such things because the herd behaviour was invoked as they thought it would be a laugh or for whatever reason it seemed appealing to them in their conscious/semi-conscious state.

Even football hooligans are coming together over an idea rather then necessity (however harebrained) and the very hardened ones use text messaging and contacts to pre-organize the fights. The police have known that for years. They even sometimes specify the type of weapons that are ‘acceptable’, there is an etiquette of sorts for some hooligan cultures. Even the decision to retaliate against the police can be pre-organised. They might seek to lure them.

One important aspect of herd behaviour we don't really use fully, as say cattle might, is safety in numbers. We have a tendency to disperse. If we are not congregating over a common idea we haven't go enough in common to want to herd. Our 150 or less interpersonal relationships are useless because chances are they are not there when you need them. If a disturbance happens in a crowded area common behaviour is to try to flee to shelter rather than trying to travel to the centre of the crowd then moving as one. That only happens in specific situations that make it difficult to flee to shelter immediately in which case the herding behaviour is a means to and end the end being able to use safety by dispersal. Shoals of fish spit but try to rejoin the larger group as soon as possible. We do not tend to want to rejoin the larger group as we do not have enough in common.

Say there is a group of people attending a rally. If there is an unexpected large bang they won't necessarily work in unison because regardless of coming together over an idea they still don't have enough in common to want to herd.



ToadOfSteel
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20 Jan 2008, 8:04 am

We keep throwing these three greek letters around... maybe we should form a fraternity...



Ihavetosaythat
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22 Sep 2009, 3:15 am

LePetitPrince wrote:
lonelyLady wrote:
i_Am_andaJoy wrote:
lonelyLady wrote:
juliekitty wrote:
There are lots of submissive men looking for dominant women.


where???


why? you want one? i've got one you can have.
(look for a NT "nice-guy" who is always stuck being "just friends' with women, and there ya go.)


I have one--he isn't submissive though, just a nice guy who is "just friends" with me. I am madly in love with him, I've never wanted anyone as much as I want him. He doesn't care 2 cents for me though :(


You are allowing this 'friendship' because you still have hope that he'll like you one day - big mistake.


if you can allow yourself to not love(, hope reciprocation and seek connection), you don't love(, because love is overwhelming).



CelticGoddess
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23 Sep 2009, 5:08 pm

pakled wrote:
now see, from all the feminism I was raised in, the idea that there were 'alpha females' instead of a solidarity gynocracy was seen as sexist...;)

I'm not an expert, but I read a book in the past that seemed to intimate that groups of women work to achieve a consensus, rather than one woman browbeating the others into submission. There's a name for women like that, and the ones women use are even snarkier..;)


:lol:



ANINJAGOD
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23 Sep 2009, 5:47 pm

LePetitPrince wrote:
Beta and omega males would feel that they are out of their league. I think alpha females would only be wives with alpha males.


Sorry man! I'd hate burst your bubble, but there is no such thing as "out of league". That is just a myth created by the media that gives society. In a way, this just another convention to make guys
like us feel hopeless. :x

The truth is that any man can get with woman regardless of social status, because the vast majority of women are not that superficial. I know this because I am not an alpha male, and I've
had women interest in me from ranging from total geeks to beauty queens (I even had a cheerleader once). So don't sell yourself short. :D

Even if you happen to run into a woman that happens to disregard you as "trash", then she most likely is a total b***h anyway and is not worth your time.


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hale_bopp
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23 Sep 2009, 7:47 pm

An alpha female is someone strong minded, confident and prepared to take leadership. People often get confused and consider good looking or "hot" women alpha females.

They aren't. Often its these ones who get pushed around the most by males, copy trends and just don't think for themselves.



polymathpoolplayer
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24 Sep 2009, 3:03 am

catspurr wrote:
What do you think about alpha females? Do you find them scary?


My fricking alpha older sister is a harridan - - blechhh!



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24 Sep 2009, 3:05 am

ToadOfSteel wrote:
We keep throwing these three greek letters around... maybe we should form a fraternity...


Her's my fraternity; Gamma Delta Ipsilon or Gawl Durned Independent!! !



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24 Sep 2009, 9:25 am

"Alpha" anything implies a pack or herd. I operate independently of female "society," so I'm exempt from this BS. W00T! :D


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24 Sep 2009, 10:03 am

Alpha, beta, omega... such terms are irrelevant. The Cybermen will remove gender, class, color, and creed. You will become identical. You will become like us.



Hector
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24 Sep 2009, 10:07 am

I'm skeptical that the alpha even exists, at least in the same sense as in a pack of dogs which is how I usually associate the term. The strongest sense in which I'd call someone an "alpha male" would be if they and their associates resembled a pack of dogs with the "alpha male" resembling the alpha of the pack. And I always assumed that such people were quite rare, and that the phenomenon was coincidental rather than resulting from some natural tendency of collective human behaviour.



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24 Sep 2009, 10:10 am

Cyberman wrote:
Alpha, beta, omega... such terms are irrelevant. The Cybermen will remove gender, class, color, and creed. You will become identical. You will become like us.


Haha! Good luck with that, toots. ;)


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racooneyes
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24 Sep 2009, 10:46 am

Hector wrote:
I'm skeptical that the alpha even exists, at least in the same sense as in a pack of dogs which is how I usually associate the term. The strongest sense in which I'd call someone an "alpha male" would be if they and their associates resembled a pack of dogs with the "alpha male" resembling the alpha of the pack. And I always assumed that such people were quite rare, and that the phenomenon was coincidental rather than resulting from some natural tendency of collective human behaviour.


You know what happens when you assume? :lol:


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24 Sep 2009, 10:47 am

This kind of reminds me of my two bosses, both in leadership positions. The first one loved to browbeat everybody under her and lived for affirmation that she was in charge, she kept the place from burning down, but she annoyed the crap out of me. The second one was softspoken (but man you should've seen her when she was pissed) and organized. Not exactly AS material in my book, but still very methodical and people friendly, by comparison, she was a great leader.



Hector
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24 Sep 2009, 11:02 am

racooneyes wrote:
Hector wrote:
I'm skeptical that the alpha even exists, at least in the same sense as in a pack of dogs which is how I usually associate the term. The strongest sense in which I'd call someone an "alpha male" would be if they and their associates resembled a pack of dogs with the "alpha male" resembling the alpha of the pack. And I always assumed that such people were quite rare, and that the phenomenon was coincidental rather than resulting from some natural tendency of collective human behaviour.


You know what happens when you assume? :lol:

If my assumptions are false, then I can always refine them. That's a big part of how I learn. But I don't see any persuasive case that people naturally gravitate to packs with an alpha.