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The Fakeness of Men (in dating)

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Haliphron
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06 Mar 2009, 12:06 pm

sojournertruth: You seem to be VERY defensive of NT womens behaviour. Is there a particular reason for that?



mitharatowen
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06 Mar 2009, 12:11 pm

Tias wrote:
Women don't hide any insecurity around men because they don't need to, they don't need to fake confidence and self-esteem , they just need to look attractive and that's about it

Oh jeeze I definately disagree with this. I've known some pretty messed up chicks and I myself have quite low self-esteem. Men do not want insecure chicks because those type are clingy and jealous and manipulative. Mature men know there is a lot more to a woman than a pretty face. And even a pretty face who doesn't carry herself with an air of confidence is often overlooked for a not-so-pretty face who carries herself like the Queen of Sheba.



Haliphron
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06 Mar 2009, 12:29 pm

mitharatowen wrote:
Tias wrote:
Women don't hide any insecurity around men because they don't need to, they don't need to fake confidence and self-esteem , they just need to look attractive and that's about it

Oh jeeze I definately disagree with this. I've known some pretty messed up chicks and I myself have quite low self-esteem. Men do not want insecure chicks because those type are clingy and jealous and manipulative. Mature men know there is a lot more to a woman than a pretty face. And even a pretty face who doesn't carry herself with an air of confidence is often overlooked for a not-so-pretty face who carries herself like the Queen of Sheba.



You're totally right. Women cover up their insecurity with vanity and snobbery; especially if they're physically attractive.



Aspie_Chav
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06 Mar 2009, 2:20 pm

It would be simpler for an aspie male if they just get rich. It would make it a lot easier for them to be themselves amongst woman.



starvingartist
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06 Mar 2009, 3:01 pm

Haliphron wrote:
mitharatowen wrote:
Tias wrote:
Women don't hide any insecurity around men because they don't need to, they don't need to fake confidence and self-esteem , they just need to look attractive and that's about it

Oh jeeze I definately disagree with this. I've known some pretty messed up chicks and I myself have quite low self-esteem. Men do not want insecure chicks because those type are clingy and jealous and manipulative. Mature men know there is a lot more to a woman than a pretty face. And even a pretty face who doesn't carry herself with an air of confidence is often overlooked for a not-so-pretty face who carries herself like the Queen of Sheba.



You're totally right. Women cover up their insecurity with vanity and snobbery; especially if they're physically attractive.


i think it's safe to say all insecure people who are attractive do that, whether they are male or female. we may express our insecurities in different ways, but we all have them, and they all show if you know how to look. the trick is to know your own strengths as well as your weaknesses, and build your confidence based on pride in your gifts and acceptance of your faults. someone who can do that is a well-balanced person, be they man or woman.



mitharatowen
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06 Mar 2009, 3:10 pm

^ applause :)



sojournertruth
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07 Mar 2009, 3:56 am

Haliphron wrote:
sojournertruth: You seem to be VERY defensive of NT womens behaviour. Is there a particular reason for that?


?

I don't see anything I wrote above as being 'defensive,' much less 'very defensive' (with caps). It makes simple evolutionary logic; females have the goal of selecting the best possible genetic donor for their offspring; males have the goal of appearing to be the best possible genetic donor, regardless of whether that is true (as you yourself indicated). Therefore females have mechanisms to distinguish the posers from the real thing; although those mechanisms don't always work, women in general (and therefore their offspring) are better off with them than without them.

If you see anything illogical about that, please elucidate.



pbcoll
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07 Mar 2009, 2:16 pm

sojournertruth wrote:
I don't watch a lot of tv now, but back when they were doing all of those 'batchelor' shows (one guy, 20 women, one gal gets voted off each week), I was disgusted whenever I would land on one during my channel-surfing commercial breaks because all of the women were doing the best they could to conform to some agreed-upon (?) "ideal" woman - similar haircuts, similar hair colors (those not naturally blond bleached their hair), even similar mannerisms. Then at one point there was a 'batchelorette' show, and the same was true of all of the men! They were so homogenous that it was difficult to even tell them apart. No personal quirkiness or individual style was allowed. Nothing, sadly, of what makes a human actually interesting and attractive.


Yes! I remember thinking, 'they might as well be wearing uniforms.'

jkrane wrote:
How can we not be? Guys just want a nice soft hole to put their cocks in. Girls just complicate things too much.

TutuFairy wrote:
At least you're honest. (?)


Well, he's not far off the mark regarding most men. The typical man is attracted by 60% looks, 30% how easily he thinks he'll get sex, and 10% everything else. Of course there are outliers, but that's the central trend.

MR_BOGAN wrote:
Why not try just having more female friends.


This is probably the worst way of trying to get a date.

ToadOfSteel wrote:
mitharatowen wrote:
Change yourself or screw everyone else and like yourself :P
Pretending solves nothing. People STILL won't like you. They might like the fake front you put up but that is not you. Besides, putting up a front is so stressful.. it's not good for you anyway.


exactly... that's why I don't do it, even though it possibly represents my only hope in ever experiencing a relationship...


Welcome to the club.


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Haliphron
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07 Mar 2009, 4:50 pm

starvingartist wrote:
Haliphron wrote:
mitharatowen wrote:
Tias wrote:
Women don't hide any insecurity around men because they don't need to, they don't need to fake confidence and self-esteem , they just need to look attractive and that's about it

Oh jeeze I definately disagree with this. I've known some pretty messed up chicks and I myself have quite low self-esteem. Men do not want insecure chicks because those type are clingy and jealous and manipulative. Mature men know there is a lot more to a woman than a pretty face. And even a pretty face who doesn't carry herself with an air of confidence is often overlooked for a not-so-pretty face who carries herself like the Queen of Sheba.



You're totally right. Women cover up their insecurity with vanity and snobbery; especially if they're physically attractive.


i think it's safe to say all insecure people who are attractive do that, whether they are male or female. we may express our insecurities in different ways, but we all have them, and they all show if you know how to look. the trick is to know your own strengths as well as your weaknesses, and build your confidence based on pride in your gifts and acceptance of your faults. someone who can do that is a well-balanced person, be they man or woman.


But female insecurity isnt that much of a turn-off to men so long as the woman is physically attractive. Thats why insecure men go to great lengths to cover up their insecurity using fakery and egotism. Women are attracted(perhaps subconsciously)to things which they perceive as indicators of a strong, secure man and men have adapted to learn how to compensate for not having these things by manipulating women into thinking that they do.



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07 Mar 2009, 5:22 pm

Haliphron wrote:
starvingartist wrote:
Haliphron wrote:
mitharatowen wrote:
Tias wrote:
Women don't hide any insecurity around men because they don't need to, they don't need to fake confidence and self-esteem , they just need to look attractive and that's about it

Oh jeeze I definately disagree with this. I've known some pretty messed up chicks and I myself have quite low self-esteem. Men do not want insecure chicks because those type are clingy and jealous and manipulative. Mature men know there is a lot more to a woman than a pretty face. And even a pretty face who doesn't carry herself with an air of confidence is often overlooked for a not-so-pretty face who carries herself like the Queen of Sheba.



You're totally right. Women cover up their insecurity with vanity and snobbery; especially if they're physically attractive.


i think it's safe to say all insecure people who are attractive do that, whether they are male or female. we may express our insecurities in different ways, but we all have them, and they all show if you know how to look. the trick is to know your own strengths as well as your weaknesses, and build your confidence based on pride in your gifts and acceptance of your faults. someone who can do that is a well-balanced person, be they man or woman.


But female insecurity isnt that much of a turn-off to men so long as the woman is physically attractive. Thats why insecure men go to great lengths to cover up their insecurity using fakery and egotism. Women are attracted(perhaps subconsciously)to things which they perceive as indicators of a strong, secure man and men have adapted to learn how to compensate for not having these things by manipulating women into thinking that they do.


well, any man who is willing to overlook the vain, snobby attitude of an insecure woman just because she is attractive gets exactly what he settled for.

....and btw, there are lots of women who will go to great lengths to hide insecurity, as well. that is not just a "male" trait. i personally have known many women who would do almost anything to keep their insecurities from being known, especially by men. your view of gender seems very black and white to me.



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07 Mar 2009, 6:12 pm

I don't know about the fakeness among women (I am talking in general here) , my thread was about the fakness among men since I can see the two sides of their personalities: the one in front of women and the real one. I don't know much of fakeness among women in front of men, however I can see women admitting their faults and their weaknesses all the time but what they might hiding , I'll never know.



sojournertruth
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07 Mar 2009, 6:46 pm

Some women actually go out of their way to appear helpless and needy around men, I suppose as a way to manipulate them. Sometimes it's relatively benign, as with opening jar lids or carrying in armloads of wood (things that men are genuinely better at, in general, than women); other times, it's psychological, as though a woman will fall apart if the guy isn't there. At the hospital, a young woman with an older man there (whether husband or boyfriend) will often be calmer and easier to treat if we have him leave - but she'll scream and cry, "Don't leave me! I can't take it!" while we pull him away. Once he's out of earshot, she'll be fine. When he comes back, she'll start sobbing and shaking again.

Once there was a teenybopper in for I-don't-remember-what ailment, but she needed to have blood drawn and an IV started, and she had tiny thin little arms and practically no peripheral blood flow - so tiny veins. After being poked several times, she said something like, 'I wish I had better veins,' or 'I'd do anything to have better veins so that I wouldn't have to go through this next time,' and I said, "Start lifting weights" She looked at me like I was insane, and the (male) nurse said, "Naaaah, she doesn't want to get all bulky."

Some men see female frailty as attractive. There is, in fact, a long history of female fashions that seem to exist specifically to make a woman less able to move freely on her own - the current version being the high heel. In the past, there have been high heels, 'hobble' skirts, Chinese foot binding, corsets, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tightlacing
http://www.apparelsearch.com/Definition ... nition.htm
http://www.apparelsearch.com/Definition ... _shoes.htm

I have been bluntly told by both women and men that appearing too confident and self-sufficient is a turn-off to men.



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07 Mar 2009, 9:50 pm

Lepetitprince, you said it.


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07 Mar 2009, 10:06 pm

All hail to the prince.

:hail: :hail: :hail: :hail:


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08 Mar 2009, 12:28 am

Aren't all personalities, beliefs about oneself? Therefore everything non-physical is fake to some degree? If you are a confident person because you believe/know you are, is it any more true than a flat out lie? It is all "matter of opinion" whether by the person, or buy the observer. Nothing is true. :idea:


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08 Mar 2009, 3:11 am

We have never met. I will live as an exception to waht your perception of what guys are like...

NT guys play it fake to keep up with the NT gals fakeness.

I find a woman in a sweatshirt, working in the garden or working with me on remodelling a house very sexy... she is using her mind, using her hands, her hair is up out of the way, no fancy cloths, no make-up, working side by side together, that is sexy and a big turn on to me...

That is real,,, not the fake metrosexual stuff that goes on thumping in the urban enviroment... nor those in groupthink, herd mentality or sheeple that has the 'keep up with the jonses' attitude.

I'll take a woman that is more intelligent than me, more confident that she does not need to wear make up becuase she is strong and beautiful in character, just like I will be myself, tell like it is, i will say what I like, what i do not like, what I am insecure about, waht I am afaraid about, I will say what upsets me, what pisses me off... I am also confident enough to do that because it comes down to the point that I choose to see the cup either half empty or half full.... see events and situations in life as either an opportunity or a liability.

Be true to yourself...

Those that are fake are in that heard mentality, running off after what they are told how they should act and what they should be like and do... buck the system and break the mold... being an aspie or autie is an advantage to us to do just that... most NT's are more suseptible to similar issues with the social/group-think stuff that is comparable to drug withdraw symptoms drug users experience.