What REALLY Bothers

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i haven't been 'looking' for a while now, i'm not sure if it's pessimism or not but when i see a female i'm attracted to (even in the slightest) i think she could be 'the one' just like anyone else could, but i let every chance fly by because i haven't got the faintest idea what to say.

yesterday on the bus a guy who recognised me from school started a conversation about life and it lead to the army, and the two girls infront of us took part because one of them were going to do something in the army as well. if it weren't for that 'one in a million' chance i wouldn't have spoken to any of them.

Oh come on! Don't exaggerate... You're just being too pesimistic

Going back to this though, I think this is the clincher, and what your really stuck with. Women just don't operate like this. When you take the hands-off route, your acting as in a way that values autonomy rather than intimacy; that's a deal-breaker in and of itself.

The problem is, I know exactly how your thinking and past relationships, I blew em up thinking this way. Its ultra-male thinking though and, not to say it isn't noble in its own way, the problem is it doesn't work - at all.

I think my own input on this topic would have to be like this; society's denied me the right to be myself and get what I would want in terms of a partner. When women were attracted in the past, it was over exterior aspects of myself that didn't represent me - didn't matter if the attention was positive, it was based on false premise and it left me no room to be myself and no room to have real communication with them. This comes from having one type of visual appearance, as well as neurotype, and a whole other kind of personality. I've barely dated in the last 8 years just because, I know the flow of things and most importantly - aside from attraction - I try to meet women who I can actually get a gut level read out that tells me we could flow well and that we'd get enough out of each other to want to pursue something. I'm too well familiar with knowing guys where I had to say "You know, I'd much rather be single for ever than be him" - just based on what a toxic mess they were stuck in, same for many women.

I know that, to a degree, I am holding myself back. Part of it - I am different, it would be very easy to fall into a cycle of abuse (less physical and more emotional over these things), and yes - pride keeps me restricting my own motion. The game plan that I have had is to keep trying to improve myself, keep trying to find ways to sort of 'hedge' the unchangeable about my neurology. I have in the past few years found out that, the unchangeable is unchangeable, it doesn't matter how much Glade I can spray it down with, it still is what it is and the Nautica, the Aqua Di Gio, the well-selected clothing or even the NT mannerisms I've picked up, people see right through it; not that its a bad thing but I just still find that my fundamentally being me whatsoever is the biggest obstacle (ie. if someone could eject me, my personality, my emotions, and put in place someone who fits the stereotype of my appearance well - no ideas on whether his life would be a trainwreck but he'd have much better luck in this department).


Something back to the OP though, my biggest obstacle in the thought of living the rest of my life single; the time that I have to spend with myself and every day of having to look myself in the mirror knowing I'm living what I'd think of as a fundamentally 'failed' life. My own natural acuity for feeling the existentials is brutal and I can only assume that a great many other people - both successful and unsuccessful - have that trait as well. Part of this is why I do everything I can to jar my own paradigm, try to get myself seeing things in new ways, trying to find emotional levels or layers of my reality that I may not have had a natural or instinctive awareness of in my past; I want thing to work in my life, yes, like yourself I also want control over where my life takes me, and I feel like the only way I can really take the reigns is by acknowledging that the world and the people around me are what they are, that its really up to me to either improve my way out of this or just keep trying in order to keep my mind occupied.

Is it really in my authority to tell a woman that I would be engaged with that she can't enjoy some of the things she likes already just because I don't? One of the women I was attracted to loved to go out and party every night she could. Personally, I'm not one to enjoy partying, as its too much of a sensory overload for me. I wouldn't have a problem with her going out every night so long as she's not endangering herself or cheating on me. To demand that she not go out and party is being a bit domineering on my part, but to join her would probably cause a complete psychological breakdown that I couldn't handle. Therefore, the compromise I've outlined seems to be the only possible solution to the problem at hand.

my advice techstepgenr8tion... figure out what it is that makes you better than others and make damn sure you show it. the two things most women are after is humour and confidence, if you know you're better than others at just one thing it could be just what you need to get women interested.

thinking about tomorrow stops you caring about today, and what you do today decides where you'll be tomorrow. (meant in the best possible way) DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!! ! i never thought i'd make it in this world but now, over the next month, i should be on my way to doing more than i thought possible.

Again, I've gotta laugh, your thinking like a guy as well. Yes, there's trade off and yes, she shouldn't be able to tell you what you will and won't do all the time. On the other hand though, most will definitely try on many angles or just play it passive defensive and leave you if they feel your too assured in yourself to be talked into changing those particular things or feel that those things are too fundamental for you to change even if you tried. I guess I'm not directly endorsing you or anyone else to 'cave in' but, its a dynamic that you have to be aware of and have to know that if you plan on dealing with it you have to be pretty crafty in your solutions.

Well understood.



Its a mix. I've found you can't just do one or the other in terms of living in the present or future, it takes a healthy balance.

BTW congrats on college, career's an important stepping stone in securing your own autonomy and I know that I was gravely concerned about that aspect of things when I was 18; so far, it took a while, but things have turned out fine.

If you mean I'm the one thinking rationally, then yes, I'm thinking like a guy.


So basically you're saying that women find a man who is sure of himself, his likes and dislikes, and his own life is not someone worth staying with?


I thought I was pretty crafty in resolving the original personality issues at hand. She doesn't have to give up anything she likes, I don't have to give up anything I like. Everybody wins. The only alternative would be a co-dependent woman who would be happier to be with me than with her own interests, but that would just be nigh impossible...

Autonomy and intimacy need not be opposed. You still keep your autonomy if you're choosing the intimacy, but only if you can back out of it at any time. Traps and leverage to coerce you sticking around are unacceptable. What, she wants insurance you'll stick around? She'll just have to trust you. After all, you just have to trust she's having orgasms. It's not like we're talking about a one-way street.

-Frank

They'll put up with it if its a guy who they already like that much about - they have to be pretty much head-over-heels or something close to it.




Yep, again, if she's *wild* about you.

I think Chris Rock said it well about marriage, ie. you have to be on a common wavelength - you have to think about her as much as she does. That's the choice I think though, you find a really rare exception, or you hold out till the day you die waiting for it, or you find ways to make yourself more attractive to a broader swath of society and cross your fingers hoping for the best.

Its really an f'd up game, and btw - don't think I'm gleefully shooting down what your saying, I'm not a fan but it won't stop me from facing it all for what it is. I think it tells you why aspie guys have such a hard time, our feng-shue and yes, being emotionlessly pragmatic about autonomy and your rights, her rights, the fact that it flows against the majority programming does mean something (ie. not thinking from the waist); not that you should give it up, just that I think we're in for some hard times no matter what we do and its our choice, based on who we know ourselves to be, what angle of attack we broach.

That sort of outlook creates its own environment... I'm afraid what you consider coercion and entrapment are part of what I consider committing to another individual. In my world, one makes sacrifices for those he cares about - not to their own detriment, but because they care about the well-being of another. You seem disinterested in anything to that effect, which does not preclude the opportunity for a relationship, but severely shrinks the number of potential partners who will share your outlook. Best of luck.


M.

Certainly your viewpoint is the viewpoint of the vast majority. People don't even think of it as having power over their partner, which is what causes a lot of problems. My pool certain shrinks as well, probably to zero, which is part of my pessimism. I know perfectly well what I require to enter a relationship, I'm just also aware what I require is likely so rare that I might as well give it up.

Committing to another individual involves putting all your time and effort into making the relationship work, not making it really difficult to back out of it. It's better if a person knows they could leave you without consequences but doesn't because, every day, they're choosing it. Who wants a relationship where someone is staying with you only because they're "committed." What if they told you, "I'm only staying with you because I'm committed, but really right now I want to run away SO FAST. Oh my God, you wouldn't even believe it." That's intimacy, really?

-Frank

If you spend all your time checking the exits, you'll never see the play. There are times when one feels that way, when things are overwhelming - but I find commitment an assurance, not the liability you see it as. You seek a relationship without attachment... that seems like a pretty sad and hollow place to me. I'm not being critical of your needs, as they are completely valid - I just can't wrap my brain around it.


M.

I think the trick is just understanding that gender roll very much still exists, that as a guy you have certain standards to meet and rolls to play, if your careful and figure it out well enough you'll find a corner or niche of that sort that doesn't go counterclockwise with the best of who you are (finding the NT alpha counterpart to who you are and modeling their better habits and ways of thinking that happen to work). Once your square with that its really about finding a girl who's cool enough to where she understands give and take well and can articulate her need for intimacy in an amiable fashion; that and someone who you know things can work with, whatever angles you try to improve from within yourself - some will take hold and yes, genuinely become you, others you'll notice will bounce right off and in that regard it just takes figuring out if there's either another way to conceal or blend that part of yourself or alternately find another angle to hack at it and uproot/dissolve it. Regardless, this done right will be very different from 'living a lie' or 'trying to be someone you aren't' or 'selling yourself out' because a choice was made - you learned from people you had respect for, my own philosophy is if you look up to a trait in someone else - its probably within you as well waiting to be propagated.

What your looking for in a woman I think is independence and self-sufficiency, something very highly sought after by any kind of guy who has his head on straight and yes - you have some mountains to climb, weights to train on, and protector points to wrack up before you really have much of a fair shot. My NT well-connected-extrovert friends can't even make this happen and they keep dating as much as they can, hoping they'll find a woman like that and hoping they can actually meet someone who's marriage material. True, some aspie guys just have ways about them or have the right personality traits that allow them to happily date aspie women - they can bypass everything I just said because it doesn't really apply to their paradigm, but I'm doubtful that many of them would have much to do with this thread.

Well, I suppose you could argue that it all comes down to whether or not I can trust someone. One possibility, and this possibility means that a lot of what I normally say on the subject is full of crap, is that my trust has been so violated at this point that I cannot imagine trusting someone, even as a hypothetical, and that when someone earns my trust, and believe me I don't know how they'd do that, my views on this would soften a bit. I'd be looking for the exit less, if you will.

On the subject of looking for the exits, it's not a matter of constantly checking for them, but just making sure they're there at the beginning. I've walked out of maybe ten movies in my life for various reasons, and I wasn't checking for the exits the whole time I was deciding to do it. My watch maybe, but not the exits. It's a mutual thing. I don't want her there only because she's trapped either, you see.

I'm glad there is at least some consideration being given that, even if I am to find someone someday, that person is incredibly rare. Don't get me wrong either. Finding the right person and making it work would be an incredible event in my life, ripping apart everything I've known the past few years of what is possible. Not being capable of rationally understanding how it could ever happen though, I just proceed presuming it won't.

-Frank