The Competition: On Quashing Them

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Rynok
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19 Dec 2008, 4:35 pm

The demand for females is ONLY higher because guys don't know how to control themselves. Ugly girls have the same equipment as hot girls, so they are just as capable in that department, which is all the guy cares about. Looks don't really matter if it's just a one nighter. Women can afford to be picky because guys hunt them like a horde of zombies. At any given time, something like 40% of the population is single (a large % is under age or old though). Women are then seen as more desirable because a single guy might ask out 5 of them (since he's unattached) in a night, whereas the women just sits and waits and feels desirable. (Also, you need to consider that guys are notorious cheaters! Thus, 1 guy can have 2+ women to himself, limiting the supply to other men and thus causing the perceived increase in "demand").

To put it in more statistical terms, something around 90% of the population ends up getting married. I wish 90% of the girls I met were physically attractive, but that isn't the case. Therefore, people marry people that aren't physically attractive and thus "less desirable" then their attractive counter parts.

Finally, what do you think would happen if we had more females than males in our population? If there were 10 females for every male, I doubt the perceived demand would change at all (I'd ask out 10 women no problem), but the real demand would for sure be on the women's side because (assuming the guy only marries 1 girl and doesn't cheat) only 10% of the female population will get to be married.



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19 Dec 2008, 7:27 pm

Rynok wrote:
The demand for females is ONLY higher because guys don't know how to control themselves. Ugly girls have the same equipment as hot girls, so they are just as capable in that department, which is all the guy cares about. Looks don't really matter if it's just a one nighter. Women can afford to be picky because guys hunt them like a horde of zombies. At any given time, something like 40% of the population is single (a large % is under age or old though). Women are then seen as more desirable because a single guy might ask out 5 of them (since he's unattached) in a night, whereas the women just sits and waits and feels desirable. (Also, you need to consider that guys are notorious cheaters! Thus, 1 guy can have 2+ women to himself, limiting the supply to other men and thus causing the perceived increase in "demand").

To put it in more statistical terms, something around 90% of the population ends up getting married. I wish 90% of the girls I met were physically attractive, but that isn't the case. Therefore, people marry people that aren't physically attractive and thus "less desirable" then their attractive counter parts.

Finally, what do you think would happen if we had more females than males in our population? If there were 10 females for every male, I doubt the perceived demand would change at all (I'd ask out 10 women no problem), but the real demand would for sure be on the women's side because (assuming the guy only marries 1 girl and doesn't cheat) only 10% of the female population will get to be married.



Guys dont know how to control themselves? What makes you so sure that they really can? The average man's sex drive is higher than the average womans sex drive. Im really curious where you get your stats from.....particularly the one claiming that 40% of the population being single.



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19 Dec 2008, 9:52 pm

ephemerella wrote:
I don't like bar people either. I like people I know an do things with. IMO, when you do something with someone, like fix something or climb something, you learn more about them that if you sit on a date on your best behavior trying to pitch some marketing to each other!

Exactly. The "dating" atmosphere, as described by others on this board, keeps sounding like a job interview... too high-stress, not enough actually getting to know one another or just enjoying it...

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Doing real activities of interest, and focusing on what we are doing, is how I always met men I admired and was compatible with (since we are doing things that are interesting to both).

Doing such things with women has yielded no end of friends out of the female gender, but I still haven't found an actual girlfriend yet... That's why I mentioned the "friend zone" before... it's a real obstacle for me, and I can't seem to ever get past it...



NaturalTrapist
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20 Dec 2008, 3:12 am

NeantHumain wrote:
The field of dating, relationships, and romance is perhaps one of the most competitive aspects of life. Not only are you competing against other guys, but you're also competing against these other guys through the filter of a woman's perception of the ideal. If you cannot immediately and sustainably attract a woman, why not go on the offensive? Attack (metaphorically, of course, need I disclaim that I do not condone violence?) the competition mercilessly. Think about it logically: If you were the only man around, wouldn't all the women whose hormones and emotions are pushing them to romance and sexuality be much more inclined to you? Exactly, and that's why you've got to eliminate (again, metaphorically, folks!) the competition.

The surest route to defeating NTs is to attack their reputation since this is their lifeblood. Humiliation, questioning of their sexual orientation, etc. are perfect. With their reputation in tatters, they may behave erratically, furthering the downward spiral to your benefit. The idea is to give yourself every advantage over the competition possible. If this sounds harsh or even brutal, remember that it's necessary if experiences proves that you cannot attract a mate by merits alone.

Discuss, and don't take it too seriously.


While I admire your spunk, I don't like guys who feel the need to act like overgrown children in front of each other. NT or Aspie, if you act that way, you aren't impressing me.



LePetitPrince
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20 Dec 2008, 9:53 am

MissConstrue wrote:
99% of the failures come from people who have the habit of making excuses.


How this is related to the thread?

And are you saying that 99% of your failures and ours is due to making excuses?



LePetitPrince
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20 Dec 2008, 10:00 am

NeantHumain wrote:
The field of dating, relationships, and romance is perhaps one of the most competitive aspects of life. Not only are you competing against other guys, but you're also competing against these other guys through the filter of a woman's perception of the ideal. If you cannot immediately and sustainably attract a woman, why not go on the offensive? Attack (metaphorically, of course, need I disclaim that I do not condone violence?) the competition mercilessly. Think about it logically: If you were the only man around, wouldn't all the women whose hormones and emotions are pushing them to romance and sexuality be much more inclined to you? Exactly, and that's why you've got to eliminate (again, metaphorically, folks!) the competition.

The surest route to defeating NTs is to attack their reputation since this is their lifeblood. Humiliation, questioning of their sexual orientation, etc. are perfect. With their reputation in tatters, they may behave erratically, furthering the downward spiral to your benefit. The idea is to give yourself every advantage over the competition possible. If this sounds harsh or even brutal, remember that it's necessary if experiences proves that you cannot attract a mate by merits alone.

Discuss, and don't take it too seriously.


It's an old bullying strategy and it's usually happen among teens and young adults in schools and even in colleges , the "cool" guys ridicule the "uncool" guys ( usually behind their backs) in front of girls and the girls giggle, It's not a very adult approach.

However, you need to be "c00l" in order to be one of these mocker guys , if you are quirky or geeky or ugly or not socially competent then you would be too "uncool" for this role.



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20 Dec 2008, 10:43 am

LePetitPrince wrote:
MissConstrue wrote:
99% of the failures come from people who have the habit of making excuses.


How this is related to the thread?

And are you saying that 99% of your failures and ours is due to making excuses?


Only when it gets down to the excuse of getting them back.


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20 Dec 2008, 12:51 pm

billsmithglendale wrote:
I would agree with both of you --

Rynok's assertion that it is a numbers game is correct, in that the larger the sample size of women you meet, the better chance you'll have of meeting someone who is into you. Too many guys (especially socially phobic ones) obsess about "winning" one or two women out of maybe five they met for the year, when in reality maybe only 10 out of 100 women you'll meet will be into you realistically, and out of those, even less will be compatible. It's really just a matter of getting out there, getting a bigger sample size/exposures, and then working on the conversion ratio, just like Sales.

And to an Haliphron's point, it is women who make the choice about which guys they like, and not vice versa, because true enough, the demand is always higher on the male side for women than vice versa, at least until women hit around 30 and start getting desperate to get married and have kids, at which point the power balance shifts to the male side. That being said, the ugliest woman you know can still find someone to have sex with her for free in 5 minutes, while the ugliest man will never have that kind of success.

The key is just to meet a lot of women, figure out which ones show interest (by studying social cues and behavior), and work on those candidates. It's all about sample size, and the bigger the sample, the higher the number of women you will meet that will work out for you. Say your conversion rate is 1% (which would be pretty low) -- if you only meet 100 women in your life, that means you'll only have one GF. But if you meet 500 women a year, that's five women a year who are dating candidates. Adjust the % upwards (through improving your image, your assets, your social skills), things get even better. Just like a salesperson who hones his skills and generates tons of leads, you make your own luck and success.


Meeting 100 women a year would mean joining about 12 different charity organizations, theater groups, churches, every year... I just don't have the time to keep up with all that AND my college education (eventually career)...

On top of that, I don't feel attracted to a woman until I get to know her (which in and of itself takes about a month), so I figure on no matter how many women I meet, I could only truly make 12 determinations a year, even with an infinite supply of women. Because the month it takes me to even develop an attraction means that by the time I'm ready, she's either given up or moved on (best case scenario), I'll set my own conversion rate to (by your words) the "pretty low" 1%.

So, by your formula:

12 women per year * 0.01 = 0.12 girlfriends a year. By your formula, that means that, at my absolute peak efficiency (which I'm nowhere near), it would take me at least 8 years to find a girlfriend... Since the women I meet are usually not spread around the year, and I can only work on one at a time, I would probably get only about 1/4 the peak efficiency, which means that it would take me 24+ years to find a girlfriend. That would put me well into my 40s, well after the period in time that I could start a family...



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20 Dec 2008, 12:58 pm

^You're only 20... :hmph:

The way this dating thing seems to work with you guys makes it sound like business as usual.

I'd hate to just date someone without knowing more about them. Then again, I'm patient to the point that I may be an eccentric old maid with a hundred cats..... :cry:


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20 Dec 2008, 1:50 pm

NaturalTrapist wrote:
While I admire your spunk, I don't like guys who feel the need to act like overgrown children in front of each other. NT or Aspie, if you act that way, you aren't impressing me.

You assume I would be interested in you to begin with whereas anime is a big turn-off for me. I go for more feminine women who can still hold their own.



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20 Dec 2008, 1:58 pm

MissConstrue wrote:
^You're only 20... :hmph:

Given my chances I might as well be 40...

Quote:
The way this dating thing seems to work with you guys makes it sound like business as usual.

That's because it is business as usual...
1) ask woman out
2) get rejected
3) sulk about it for a few weeks/months/years (skip this step if you're a jerk)
4) repeat ad infinitum

The only way to break the cycle is to stop performing step #1.

Quote:
I'd hate to just date someone without knowing more about them. Then again, I'm patient to the point that I may be an eccentric old maid with a hundred cats..... :cry:

I'd take eccentric with a hundred cats over a complete snob any day of the week... in fact, the former is usually an interesting character that I could at least relate to...



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20 Dec 2008, 2:23 pm

Neant, is this a tried and true approach for you? I'd personally find any guy partaking in this behaviour extremely undesirable. If I found out that's how he tried to get me, and we had somehow ended up together, I'd say it would even call into serious question whether or not I wanted to stay with him. I like a man with good manipulative skills, but how he uses his abilities makes all the difference.

I'd feel very much like a chosen object if I were somehow courted through these means. As a couple of you sound on this thread, women are mere property to be claimed and fought over. Sure, this is the way of many animals, particularly mammals, but I think humans can have a bit more self awareness than that. I know I'm not property, I'm not an object; I'm the same species as the other sex and my reproductive strategy is not to be gathered into a polygamous setting. If it were, then this would work better for me. And I'm not sure how desirable a woman who'd fall for this kind of thing would be, either, but I guess that's up to the individual guy.

Of course, I'm just a woman--what do I know? ;)



NaturalTrapist
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20 Dec 2008, 7:02 pm

NeantHumain wrote:
NaturalTrapist wrote:
While I admire your spunk, I don't like guys who feel the need to act like overgrown children in front of each other. NT or Aspie, if you act that way, you aren't impressing me.

You assume I would be interested in you to begin with whereas anime is a big turn-off for me. I go for more feminine women who can still hold their own.


I'm not a tomboy. I enjoy a lot of girly things too. Don't assume that I'm not feminine. And I don't think I would be interested in you if you feel the need to assume things.



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21 Dec 2008, 2:18 am

Orbyss wrote:
Neant, is this a tried and true approach for you?

No, this is an untried approach for me. What has been tried by me is just being friendly (as much as I know how to be at least), supportive, and trying to get to know the girl. Since this doesn't work and I'm getting impatient about the whole process, I just want whatever's most expedient.



NeantHumain
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21 Dec 2008, 2:23 am

NaturalTrapist wrote:
NeantHumain wrote:
NaturalTrapist wrote:
While I admire your spunk, I don't like guys who feel the need to act like overgrown children in front of each other. NT or Aspie, if you act that way, you aren't impressing me.

You assume I would be interested in you to begin with whereas anime is a big turn-off for me. I go for more feminine women who can still hold their own.


I'm not a tomboy. I enjoy a lot of girly things too. Don't assume that I'm not feminine. And I don't think I would be interested in you if you feel the need to assume things.

Somehow it seems you got the assumption I might be interested in you. I don't do over-the-Internet relationships to begin with because for me, it's nothing if it lacks the physical, which obviously you aren't going to get online. Plus without even a photo, there's not a chance (guys are aroused more visually and tactilely than women).



NaturalTrapist
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21 Dec 2008, 3:02 am

How exactly would you get that impression, sir?

I was only playfully commenting on what you said at first.
I think you misunderstood me.