Consequences in "why to ask first"

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how many times do you have be told that what a woman wears has nothing to do with whether she gets raped or not before you will shut up about this? a woman wearing a miniskirt is at no greater risk of being raped than a woman in sweatpants. a woman has MORE chance of being assaulted INSIDE her home than out of it--so telling a woman to be careful where she goes/don't go out alone at night WILL NOT PROTECT HER. these things you are talking about ARE NOT PRECAUTIONS BECAUSE THEY MAKE NO DIFFERENCE IN WHETHER A WOMAN GETS RAPED OR NOT. SO STOP TELLING US TO "TAKE PRECAUTIONS" that DON'T WORK!! !! !

Sly, let's recap how this conversation's gone.

Here I am saying, "Ask before touching, it's respectful and good at preventing sexual assault. And oh look, enough people feel the same way now that there are real penalties if you don't get consent first."

And then you and a few others say, "Forget all that, maybe just don't get drunk and wear lewd shirts."

Do you see how this shifts the conversational focus from "it's your responsibility not to rape" to "it's your responsibility not to get raped"?

I can see going with the latter if you believe it's impossible to have any social power at all, and if you think that nothing will or can ever change. But I know that this is not how it is. I've seen too much change in my lifetime to believe otherwise. Anyway, no, it's not about "throw all caution to the wind". It's about doing the work where there is actually work to be done, and also about recognizing how mythical so many of these "do this and you'll be safe" notions are.

Also, sly, yes, we've been over the women's DV thing many, many times now.

Yes, there are women who abuse men.
Yes, the men deserve compassion and support and the women should be (and often are) arrested.
No, the majority of DV is not committed by women. Not by a long shot. Hospitals and the FBI keep reliable stats on that, and you're welcome to look them up.

see i'm not saying that. i'm saing stuff increases the odds, all this started cause guys who raped women said wll that f**k me shirt meant she was asking for it. so there are in fact guys who will rape a woman who wears such clothes over another lady next to her not wearing them. otherwise this whole issue never would have came up. so do we ignore thos guys who think that way? or can we acknowledge that theres ways to maybe atleast avoid those men.

I don't giv eone rates ass you if you go nude and get raped. I will f*****g kill the bastard and try to help you recover. but if i said to you 2 weeks before that if you go nude down that street you might get hurt. its bad

we've been over it there is almost no way to stop the cases you talk about no way. if you didn't know the guy would hurt you how the f**k would i know? how the f**k do i stop a guy who i don't know is going do something from doing it.
they make a difference for some women get raped or not/ so f**k those women so if 1/10 women is saved by those precautions then it doesn't mater they should just join the other 9 in being hurt?????
you do know you don't have to take people's advice right? like you have a choice. like how I don't take advice you people give me here about buffing up and going to bars to pick up women.

ugh
so tired of this, how bout we agree to disagree and stop. there is no point. in continuing. nothing you all have sugessted will stop any rapes, but some of the advice i got from ---->women <---- might stope 30% of rapes. so that could save a million women from being raped. so becacue its not all women its useless.

we can't stop all murder(murder done by supprise by family or friends) but we can stop some murders, luckly our gov doesn't think like you all and trys to stop the ones it can. if my sister came in here right now and started stabbing me to death could i, you, the gov stop it no. cause none of us could know it would happen. but we can stop the guy who is planning to go kill people. yeah he might not repersent most murders, but we still try cause stopping him is at least something it saves 1 life.


not that also i've never and would never tell a rape victim that if she wore something else then she would not have been raped, but saying that you can decrease your risks by wearing such isn't the same. like how we say if you don't wear shorts you decease your risks of getting ticks.

I am not a rapist, abuser, i do not blame victims(real victims not people who have never been a victim) and if what you say is true then 80% of evertying the gov does, evertying people told us growing up is victim blamming.

I didn't get involved until after it turned into a rape dicussioun.

I do ask before kissing, touching, or even doing those things over text. so attacking me doesn't do anything other then make me feel horrible and want to avoid women all together. :'(
I have no social power. if I did i would not be on wrong planet. I am here cause I have no social group and felt alone. then found a place with others like me to seek social group and help. I highly doubt anyone on this site can change how society as a mass group views this issue. so as I said in another post. if you really want to change this go to pua sites and stuch , that is where the view women as objects and kiss without asking is taught and passed along. if you want to combat it then the source is the best place to be. but you are here will most ask already. what does making us feel like s**t accomplish. I already asked in person and now after being her in text. I don't know what else you expect from me and others.

the guys who don't ask don't care. how do you plan to make them care?

and we have been over it that most men would never report it and they might not be hurt so much to need to be taken to the er.
my brother's wife beats him. he has never been hurt enough to go to the hostiptial, so cause hes not part of the stats he doesn't count?

I never went and reported my stuff, and I won't in in future case either. that isn't how men act. if your gf beats you and you report it now you are laughed at by both women and mean, seen as weak. but if you just leave her and never say anything then you atleast don't get laughed at.

just cause most men who are hurt by DV aren't hurt as much as women doesn't make them not worth considering. My mom has hit me before. it doesn't hurt much, so I guess it's ok. I doubt the houspital or police would even give a s**t.

if a 5' woman hits a 6' big guy they will assume that it couldn't happen cause hes way bigger then her. this is the s**t men get if they try to seek help. this is why we won't be part of the FBI stats.

"It is estimated that 835,000 men are physically
assaulted by an intimate partner annually"

I and many men are likely not even in that estimate.

I think it should be treated equally, maybe instead of fighting to stop abuse of women you should fight to stop abuse of anyone.

please just don't respond. I didn't intend to be in a fight, you all are going hate me anyways. so meh.
If i could kill myself I would.

^^see this is your problem--because it's not true. a rapist may CLAIM afterwards that he raped a woman because of what she was wearing so as to make it look like it was her fault and not his--BUT THAT'S NOT WHY HE DID IT. rapists rape because they want power over another person, not because "hey miniskirt, that's a free pass!"

I always thought that they wear a miniskirt because the weather is hot and they feel comfortable and stylish not raped. I don't think anyone is asking to be raped regardless of attire.

not all rapist rape for power, some are just super horny and lack caring for people. in wich cause if they see something that makes them horny they act.

there are some people that kill for no reason. when asked why they said I just suddenly felt like doing it so i stabbed him.
I imagine rapist do so too. the guy who abused me did so cause he wanted pleasure from someone else, and there was a naive me.
my it seems my dad did it to my sbilings for sex, he couldn't get any from women. plus his father abused him and his before him, so maybe he thinks its acceptable.

you can't know if they did it for power, so you are guessing based on that lots do it for power.

most if not all the women i know would give the advice not to wear that shirt to a party of drunk frat men. this isn't something i've got from men. the one man friend I have thinks women should be allowed to run around nude and guys should somehow cease finding a woman's body sexual and become asexual.

to be honest I wish I didn't feel sexually attracted to women. I know that its a horrible thing to be. men shouldn't find women attractive. but we do and theres no drug yet to ihibit this.

Edit: unless you are a mind reader you have no way of knowing if they did it for that or not. just as lots of women asume men only do nice thing to get in women's pants.

Last edited by sly279 on 02 Sep 2014, 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

and cause they want to feel sexy. directly from mouths of women. or its why those women wear skits and short the size or smaller then underwear.

i know pleanty who wear skirt for the weather, but they are like knee skirts not the super tiny super tight show your vagina skirts.

which is find they want to look sexy.

sly, if you look through the police blotter in my town, you're going to find women called in on DV charges. Men can and do call the cops on women. And unless you're in one horrible place, the cops will be glad you did, because they'd rather have you do that than have you beat on the woman in retaliation or self-defense. They take that stuff very seriously.

As it happens I'm wearing a miniskirt right now. Mid-thigh. I also often run in to work rather than drive or bike, so I wear a running skirt, about the same length as a tennis skirt. Everyone I work with already knows I've got hot legs for an old lady, they don't need to see them again. I wear the skirts because it's hot out and it's nice to have bare legs, and because the skirts are still more work-appropriate than shorts are.

When I was young, in college, I did used to wear the little tiny butt-huggers -- because I liked how I looked in them, and liked the style, not because I was hoping boys would notice I had a vagina. I'm sure they already knew. Usually comes in a set with the boobies. I also had lycra out the wazoo because I taught aerobics. Never crossed my mind that wearing that stuff around was a molestation invitation. Trust me, the profs who mack on undergrads understand you have a body regardless of what you're wearing.

eta: I wonder, sly, if you realize how much of women's fashion is just drag. RuPaul had it right. It's costuming, theatre -- you have this look, that look. I expect there really are women who try to use it to snare men, but most of the time we're dressing for ourselves and each other, not men. Partly because men honest to god don't notice much when it comes to clothing, not unless they're into it themselves. You're wasting your time if you're trying to impress a man with how you dress. My real arbiter these days is my extremely gay student employee -- he's got no money but excellent taste. If he's impressed, I done good. I don't put effort into it like I did back in the day, though -- there's only so much time you can spend on costumes in your life.

you arent' all women though. I have beentold by women and over heard women say they wear them cause they think they will look sexy and attract guys. not saying all women do, but you can't say no women do either.

I wear cammo cause I like how they feel comfy . I shaved my hair cause it was nice in the heat. the response i got was i must be a new nazi. so cause of that and fearing going bald. I stopped shaving my hair. i still can't wear a full set of cammo without peple assuming I am in a militira, a shooter about to shoot people, etc. so I only wear pants. I wore small shorts once and you could apparently see the outline of my balls somewhat. so women told pointed it out and said i can't wear those. yet me doing the same to a woman wearing a skirt wher eyou can see her vagina(I don't think kids should walk around and see naked vaginas) is bad? also never said she wor them for that reason I don't kow her, all I do know is half the people at my work pointed it out. I don't look down at women's crotch. if i see a woman wearing short shorts or skirts i look down at the floor cause I know being attracited to women is bad. forgive me if I am wrong but a skirt use to be a half dress. so something that is thigh length to knees. not so small it looks like a belt and you see the lady's privates.

glad te cops are good where you are but they aren't in all places. if a big football player comes in saying his m***et gf beats him and he has no bruises do you really think they will believe him when she says she doesn't? quite a few big guys don't think women can hurt guys, those guys become cops alot of the time. even in my self defense class we were told that courts won't usually side with a man defending himself against a woman. cause they assumet he bigger male could easily stop and over power the woman.
also I would never never never hit a woman unless she is trying to stab me, hit me with a bat hammer or other heavy object, in wich case I may need to shoot her. I am not strong. most women have been stronger then me. but I look big and strong.

i think you are stuck in your this is how it works in my California town. but most states are not like California.

I notice fashion stuff, I even have picked out good outfits for women in the past. I notice when a woman has a cute outfit or cute boots. I can not and do not know men's fashion for anything.

my faimly says i should stop repllying as i won't change my mind yet you keep tryig to get me to. I am not pro rapist or anti women. I ask before I make any contact with women, despite most not doing the same. I feel super depressed now after this thread. I can't stop feeling sexually attracted to women. I wish I could I feel like a monster for it .I want to kill myself. yet its there i do. I can't for the life of me figure out what you hope to gain from any of this. as there doesn't seem to be anything that oyu could

mos of us here are stuban as we have aspergs. so we tend to be quite strong about how we think or believe. I did not expect you to change your mind, i guess I just hoped for a middle ground, shake hands agree to disagree. without being made to feel even more horrible aobut living then I already do. :'(

Clothes and other measures in most case make no difference - but in some extreme cases they do: When I was in Saudi Arabia, I couldn't wear any t-shirt despite it was too hot there; wearing a sleeveless would put me in trouble or be beaten by someone.
A college party full of drunk boys and where one is more likely to get drunk is also an extreme example, dating with strangers over the internet is also risky; most first I had the girls brought a female friend along and were in very public places.
So yes, I would make my hypothetical teen daughter take such precautions in such environments/circumstances; and you are not going to convince me otherwise just because you say "it makes no difference".

And the more where rape/sexual violence goes unpunished the more common it is.

And rape while is often about power, it's not always the case, the power rapists are usually the serial rapists, intoxicated rape happens when a guy aggressor is too desperate to f*** and has no morals; so an intoxicated girl is an easy target for him, they are opportunists.

A study classify several types of rapists:
http://www.nytimes.com/1991/12/10/scien ... apist.html

Hatred against women is also a component for some rapists; here shows how culture may contribute in rape:






And there are the opportunists type, most common of rapists:



And you have the fantasy rapists:



The fleeing type:


The woman-haters type:



The all-haters type:


The sadist type:



You can tell a lot from a man's history as well; this is a common sense:



This also explain gang rapes, I've always wondered how guys with the same no-morals happen to be in the same place (ie. party) and all contribute in rape.

sly, you need to call a counselor now. Do you have one?

I think Sly needs a real friend in the real world.