Serious issues with L&D Forum

Post Reply New Topic

Oh no, no no!
I'm talking about a mod editing a thread title to indicate that it's a repeat rant, so that other posters who enter the discussion must also behave themselves, because they chose to participate knowing the context. People learn at different paces and no one will learn before they are ready to. I'm not an advocate of exclusion in exchange for a more comfortable environment for everyone else, it's punitive and will have an unpredictable impact on marginalised posters.

Why no one here made a drama and called these threads sexist and generalization?

Or is it because not initiated by a man?

viewtopic.php?t=314553

viewtopic.php?t=314846

Not only that, but the male users, except one, were supportive for the OP!

After every time I go to sleep at night, when I come here the next day another 4 pages are added to this thread. Have we gone off topic yet?

Who said anything about being an emissary? My point was simply that you were complaining about something you had the power to fix, and then got snarky (the very thing you were complaining about) when I pointed it out.

Also, what's gratuitous about pointing out your behavior in the thread? Have any of the posts you've made on the last few pages been helpful in any way?

^Jono I think this thread has aired a lot of grievances, hopefully it will be cathartic.

Yes there are problems, but where are the solutions? I'm not talking about ones influenced by an individuals emotion or agenda, they're so off topic that they derail the thread.

This isn't a reiterate the well known problem, whine and take swipes thread it's a propose a solution to the well established problem thread!

Boo: *Gasp* Sexist generalizations!

Report and ban this misandrist! /s

I'll take us back on-topic right now.

Now, marshall said something way back before it devolved into back-and-forth arguing.

My response to marshall:

"I've observed that women are offended by guys complaining that women will only date guys with money. It isn't quite as simple as that, but there is a grain of truth to it. I believe men experience greater stigma for being employment challenged than women. There is a stigma on people who are on disability or only work part time, and this stigma does fall disproportionately harder on men. Maybe it's not as bad now as it was in the 50s, but it still exists to some degree and I think men on this forum experience it. It isn't because women as a group are more prejudiced than men. It has little to do with anything women consciously decide as a group. It's simply due to the influence of traditional gender roles, the same ones that feminists claim are sexist. It isn't something deliberately imposed by either women or men, but both sexes are influenced by culture."

Agreed.

"With that said, I suppose it is sexist to say "women only want money", or "women are materialistic". I don't think this is true at all. I think it comes up when the lonely guys complain because they are experiencing something. They are experiencing the effects of gender roles. Maybe men on here should be more conscious in trying to avoid phrases like the ones above that most of us would agree are offensive."

Actually, what I often see is 'some' or 'many' women in 'my experiences' and 'my area' tend to have x traits or have x opinions of me.

This is misinterpreted as a direct sexist generalization and offensive attack.

MY EXAMPLE QUOTE: "Many women I meet limited purely to my limited experiences, in my limited area tend to care significantly about a man's income because I live in an extremely liberal and progressive major city with constant development and a rat-race among young people to university and to secure a higher-earning job immediately at graduating upon 22 years old (started at 18, immediately after high school graduation, of course), rather than say if I lived in a small dead-end town that has no development or future in sight anytime soon."

This 'sexist' 'generalization' made 'against' women is out of frustration, yes, but certainly not an intentional attack but just a wallow in self-pity and blaming your current situation on what you observe in your pursuits in love and dating.

Another issue is, though understandable, is many males here making a generalization against what they tend to observe in N.T. women, and aspie women over-reacting and strongly arguing "Oh no, I'M not like that yadda yadda" when it's very likely they are actually quite unique, unconventional and in the minority.

As you have said there is a grain of truth to the fact some gender roles (not just money, but others) perpetuated by N.T's, both male and female do exist.

To make an observational statement on these gender roles and how it negatively affects your life isn't necessarily again intended to be a sexist generalization.

For instance:

"I believe many women expect the male to make the first move. 90% of (N.T.) women I have come across do. And 90% don't show signs they're interested so I don't know when they are or not."

Aspie woman: "No! That's a generalization. I'm not like that. I would ask a male out if I'm interested, and I don't expect him to. And I do try to show interest but sometimes I'm shy.
"

The aspie woman may not realize aspie women in general are the minority, and many beliefs they have may potentially be in the minority.

I remember on a health&exercise website a generalization made by the male members that many women don't care about healthy eating or exercise as much as men tend to, especially due to the fact men tend to care about building muscle for fitness and some women are pushing a 'fat-acceptance' movement for overweight and plus-size women and models, while for men, no such thing exists.

The women that responded negatively and with heavy backlash?

The actual female members of that very health&fitness website!

Of course the generalizations made by the men aren't going to apply to them!

"It is another thing though to just outright deny the reality of what men experience, that they are disproportionately rejected for being on disability or working only part time. To just outright dismiss this because the idea that it even exists is somehow sexist or offensive to women in turn offends men by silencing their ability to express certain frustrations. The knee-jerk denial and instant dismissal of their complaints invalidates their experience completely. This I think is a large source of hostility."

Agreed. Especially when any sort of observation in anyway is dismissed as a 'generalization' and then begins a long-winded, pointless, petty argument.

"I get that it appears guys are singling out women as a group when they complain about their experiences, but I think the reality is this... guys say "women" a lot because they are heterosexual and thus aren't attempting to date men. If they did date men, you would probably see a lot more complaints directed at "men". In other words, I don't think the singling out of "women" as a group is really intentional. I suppose guys should be encouraged to substitute "people" for "women" when they talk about negative dating experiences. Maybe that would help. I just don't think prohibiting men from ever complaining about experiences is helpful as they will just feel as though they are being told their feelings don't matter and they should just shut up."

And we get that enough by society, including some people here of either gender dismissing any post with any sort of negativity or a sad tone to it.

And yeah, as Bisexual, I have many issues with males as well and make observations ('generalizations') on them as well.

It's just, I tend to make observations on women more often because 1. I prefer them, and 2. Heterosexual women are more common than homosexual and bisexual men combined.

"I think it has to be a two way street for there to be understanding on both sides. I don't think telling people who vent to shut up helps anything. It increases hostility."

Exactly. It is the cause of many of the arguments here. Any sort of statement of opinion on one's own views of reality are instantly classed as discriminatory generalization and thus must be wrong and the OP's entire life experiences must be wrong and at fault.

The problem must be with the OP and never anyone or anything else or any other possible factors that is outside of the OP's control.

Even a person working hard to improve their health, appearance and personality is almost instantaneously called-out as playing 'victimhood' and blaming their problems on others and lacking responsibility for their actions and improving themselves and making an effort to meet new people the second they complain about a lack of success.

"I really tried hard to word everything as carefully as possible so nobody jumps down my thought. I don't know if it is avoidable though. I'm trying my best."

You did more than your best, you did amazing and spectacular.

But unfortunately sometimes even walking on eggshells to not offend still may upset someone, such is the case of an increasingly politically correct and sensitive world and society.

Some people may still take offense to your post even if I find it well-thought out, logical, sound and reasonable.

No, YippySkippy, I am not talking about you personally or specifically, but in general.

After reading back my post, I do quite like the idea of any L&D posts too 'ideoglogical' for the sub-section to be moved over to PPR.

The posts I have made were made with good will and sincerity. I have tried brainstorn in a fair and constructive way, while refraining from personal attacks, sneering, or posting snide comments. I haven't compromised my own standards nor sought to undermine the spirit of Alex's thread. If you have a negative opinion of that or me Dox, I don't care.

To be honest, this thread had gone the way of many threads which perpetuate themselves beyond their useful life.

It brings back memories of past threads, and of the conflicts within those threads. People adopt a "bunker mentality" as a result.

It makes people seem more petty than they actually are, owing to a desire to "save face."

I hope Alex responds to this thread soon.

initially, i found this/your response so juvenile i'll admit a bout of sniggering ensued and i didn't take you very seriously. subsequent posts made by another poster explain your stance, but, previous history does not excuse rudeness. i neither know, nor care about what tactics you have fallen victim to in the past. they weren't tactics employed by me.

this is a thread looking for solutions and is an open discussion where if you post, you invite a reply. whether positive, or negative. your response to me would suggest you can dish it out but don't like to get served, which i am sure is not the case and that you are really a wonderful person.

to answer another aside that you made...i neither like, nor dislike you...i am indifferent...so "harassment" is a very far off thing...i based my responses on some of your posts to this thread that i, personally, found unacceptable especially given the purpose of this thread.

I am kindly asking you to refrain from interacting with me in any form.

Is that too unreasonable to ask? I am also indifferent toward you, no liking no hate.

But please just leave me alone.

It's easier to stop responding to their posts, Boo.

I blame education systems that say 'you can say anything so long as you argue for it', rather than 'it's ok to admit you were wrong, so long as you always seek the truth.

This gives us politicians who spend billions of dollars on projects they know won't work rather than admit it was a bad idea.

Anyway, if you'll excuse me I'm going to climb back down into my bunker now.

I couldn't agree more, sir.

A thread that probably should have ended after 4 or 5 pages or so ends up being 12-20, and this extension does usually cause derailing, topic changes, or at worse, arguments.

I also think sometimes arguments begin because one person does strongly misinterpret or disagree with another user, and when the other user tries to save-face with what they said, it might continue with mis-understandings or just disagreement until people grow frustrated and annoyed with each other, resulting in 'pettiness'.

Well, recognizing someone addressing to you is the most basic form of human respect, since I don't want them to feel disrespected then I simply tell them to stop posting to me.

I don't know what to say except everybody here rocks.