Sexism on L&D

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It is common sense to respect and obey authority figures as a child. It seems like one set of authority figures is telling a child to do f and another set is telling this same child to do ~f? Which "common sense" item is correct? You all are putting the child in a Hofstadter-Moebius loop. If one stands up then one obeys one set and disobeys the other set and if one does not stand up then one obeys one set and disobeys the other set? How does one respect and obey? How is a child expected to submit him or herself when the authorities in question present the child a Hofstadter-Moebius loop?



True



So, what does the child do exactly?

First off, nobody has yet to tell me how those two statements actually hurt women. I've been told that someone who is female is offended by them, but that doesn't mean the statement is impacting women's lives anywhere, any moreso than any other statement that offends a woman on here.

Would it be racist if you said all black people are thieves if you said it during an emotional outburst after you had just been ripped off by a black person and not thinking straight? No. It would be overreaction and most people would tell you so. If you continued to post it after being stolen from over and over again by black people then people might see you as a racist, but I don't know if you would be one or not, or if you just couldn't see anything except your own experience. Paula Deen was called a racist because she said the n word in private to her husband after being robbed by a black guy. That doesn't make her a racist, it makes her emotional at the time. I think people read too much into remarks made when somebody's upset. The problem comes about when someone has a problem with a group of people and then not only hates that group for a little bit when they are upset but comes to believe their angry outbursts were actually true and start living their lives based on that.

But nobody has yet told me how those two statements about women in general are having any impact on women other than to simply personally offend a handful of them here. Is someone being discriminated against because of the statements? Did the statements go viral and start a movement in society to put women down? Did they do anything at all except show us how the speaker isn't taking personal responsibility for their own failure with women and instead of working on themselves they blame the group that is rejecting them?

"I shouldn't have to explain it" becoms the war cry of those who feel that their position is so morally superior and righteous that if you don't see the same importance of it as they do, then you are clueless and need to be educated somewhere. You should know that on an aspie forum that sometimes explicit explinations are required for some of us at certain times. I do not see how those statements are impacting women's lives except the same way any remark that offends them here would. I asked for it to be spelled out to me exactly how those statements are hurting women, other than the few who got offended here and can avoid that forum and threads started by those particular a**holes.

If you can't explain how it hurts us, then don't expect support.

Perhaps, it's an acquired taste. For some, finding ways to be offended is an art and craft. OOM doesn't seem to be good at haunting herself with artificial sensitivities.

I'm pretty sure they have, you just don't agree with the way they see it...



I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on all of that. Your reasoning for saying something racist doesn't change the fact that what you said is racist, same goes for sexist statements. There's really nothing you can say to ever convince me that you're right and I"m wrong in that regard.

If someone did make some kind of statement like that because they were just angry or frustrated and not necessarily because they're a racist/sexist at heart, then what exactly would be wrong with moderating them so that all of the people who have to deal with this kind of crap on a daily basis everywhere else they go don't have to deal with themselves? Would moderating it hurt WP somehow?

Also, "I shouldn't have to explain it..." isn't my warcry. I ACTUALLY shouldn't have to explain it when it's already been explained by the people who belong to the group you are questioning. Even though you keep saying it hasn't been explained. It has been explained, you just didn't like the explanation, which is usually where you go into your rant about how people need to grow up and blah blah blah, for not seeing things your way.

Last edited by Nights_Like_These on 29 Jun 2014, 8:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Common sense is a phrase like reasonable doubt. It means that it's something that most reasonable people would agree on. Analyzing every word and everything to death becomes a moot point eventually.

As for who decides what is outlandish, well everybody decides for themselves but when most folks agree that it is then it's considered outlandish by most. Lots of times those causes are started by people who take a good idea and then go overboard with it.

It's obvious that some people here disagree on where the line should be drawn regarding sexist statements.

It has been clearly defined what constitutes sexist language and what does not. What is unacceptable is that, when one person posts a sexist statement, a bunch of others chime in and agree with the sexist sentiment. Perhaps any one statement, in and of itself, does not cross the line, but as a collective vent, combined into a prevailing sentiment, they do. And then the entire subforum takes on a sexist tone. What purpose does that serve other than to run off the people who are feeling disrespected, i.e., the women? Guys, Aspie women may be your prime dating pool, if not at this very moment, then somewhere down the road. Do you really want to alienate a bunch of potential dates en masse? If so, carry on. Those female WP'ers with enough self-respect to disapprove of that kind of climate will move on and find their own dating pool somewhere else.

My perspective is: if you want to whine, or rant, or vent, go do it in the haven. Why not leave this subforum for people who have a genuine interest in helping others find their way through the pitfalls of love and dating, instead of their posts being an exhibit for some to cluck their tongues over the language, and others to quietly snicker at the poor suckers' misfortunes?

Just a thought.

I am just trying to grasp your point. I hope I'm not stepping on your toes here OOM but is it similar to the concept of when you were so angry with your hubby over something I forget but you were so angry that you called him a drunk and a s**t? You were on here, called him those things and was not thinking straight. In the end though you didn't mean it and deep down you do love your hubby. It was just that you were emotional at the time.

No, you aren't stepping on my toes at all. Yeah, I was upset at him and the things seemed to apply at the moment. People say things when they have emotions. It's life. I've also lumped all people who aren't from the South into one category too when I was mad at one of them. It just happens. I'm not "regionist" lol.

Perhaps not, but the thing you said is still "regionist", if such a thing existed. lol

This is where my problems with overthinking come into play. This is an issue for me and can debilitate me. I wish I had an effective solution for this. Do you have any recommendations for me and if you do will you please give me some? Thanks, I would appreciate it.



I have come to a conclusion as to how to decide this. If people from various cultures and various walks of life tell me I'm going overboard on something then I will accept that more than likely I am.

To me, one has to have as variable of a sample space as possible. Various people from different religions, walks of life, economic statuses, both genders, homosexuals, bisexuals, heterosexuals, conservatives and liberals have all said the same thing and that is that I overthink things. When I truthfully think about it I do and it is a problem for me. Do you have any strategies and stratagems to effectively overcome this? StarvingArtist has suggested things like Yoga to me and I may do that and learn to effectively control my breath. Do you have more suggestions?



Yeah, I will accept that some people do go overboard in their ideas.

Well then lets start a movement to moderate regionist posts on here! So many people post things like "All Southerners are racist" or "Southerners just want to relive the Civil War" and "people from the South are uneducated" that I think something should be done about it! Nevermind that their statements don't have any impact on anybody's life, but I'm Southern and those statements don't apply to me and they aren't true, so lets do something about it!

It's kinda like that.

Regionist. I've never heard of that term lol. I guess it truthfully is life. People just say crap they do not mean and believe me I have had my share with my wife and I regret the negative things I have said to her. Amazingly we just keep on ticking. I guess it is the nature of the beast that people just will screw up.

Last edited by cubedemon6073 on 29 Jun 2014, 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AspieOtaku, may I kiss you?
Not to make light, though, as I remember you posting that you have been on the receiving end of unwanted attention.

I haven't voted here either as I find these polls to be silly and unscientific.

But I think linguistics may be getting in the way of communication. The key is to repect the space of the other person. Sometimes the cues are non verbal, but they still exist.

And then we can agree to disagree about this one too, pretty much the same wall we hit last time I tried to discuss something with you. lol I'm beginning to see a pattern that's probably not worth repeating...

I actually do have some suggestions for you Cubed. Common sense was such an impossible thing to wrap my mind around back before I understood it and started learning it, or even agreed that it existed and if so that I should learn it. It was overwhelming to think that there would be a way for me to look at things and express myself about ideas and such where I wouldn't be looked at like I had two heads by others. These are the things I did and what I suggest.

Start off with your own peer group and those in your social and family circle and start listening to not only their opinions but how they express themselves. Try to shape your ways of expressing yours in a similar way to them, even if your opinions aren't the same as theirs. Learn to look at an issue at different angles and then succinctly explain why you think you are right about it and others are wrong. Try and find real world examples and not "what if" examples. Realize that you can't take every possible scenario into consideration and then focus on the most likely ones you encounter. Instead of "what if-ing" something to death, look at the things that are most probable and address them. Some rare situation from left field doesn't fit in with common sense because it's not likely to happen.

Somebody may put these posts between me and you about this topic into it's own thread, so if so and I miss it, please hit me up in PM to give me the heads up and I'll check it out. I don't want to derail this thread again.

Speech matters more than you think it does.

One of the things that's surprised me in recent years is the number of young women who tell me that boys feel entitled to criticize their bodies if they don't look like movie stars, if they don't groom themselves in particular ways, if they don't wear this or that, if they won't do various sexual acts. This shocked the hell out of me at first -- wth, they're not just happy to get laid? I can't recall a guy *ever* talking that way to me -- but the kind young women did some youngsplainin' at me, and it seems that the boys are so internet-porn-saturated by the time they touch a real live girl that they have very freaky standards, and they also hear thousands of other men bragging about how they whipped their girls into shape, and that it's appropriate to talk this way to them.

I can see it. You go over to reddit and gawker and they're echo chambers of macho posturing. I can see it being very easy, if you're a young guy, to believe that this is actually how you do it. So I used to say to these girls, well, wtf, then, dump them. And they get very unhappy and say that all the boys they know are like that, they all talk that way about girls, so if they refuse to deal with it, they just won't be able to date at all.

How people talk about women, depict women, has real consequences for women. That's why every advocacy group for anything freaks out when slurs are normalized, when members of that group are blamed irrationally, and when there are ugly stereotyped representations of that group. You think they do it for kicks? If you do, you're wrong. They do it because that speech, those representations are dangerous, particularly when they're seen as normal, and they encourage discrimination, violence, all kinds of bad.