More Thought on Incels.

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A man can look like Adonis; but if all he does is whine about being lonely, he will be perceived as "ugly".

I was watching a youtube video about Elliot Rogers with my brother recently, and showed some of what he put on YouTube before he did what he did. He wasn't ugly, actually quite good looking I thought of course the hateful stuff he was saying kind of ruined that but yeah I do no think his problem was being ugly. It was certainly more of his attitude that was the problem he seemed very negative, hateful and narcisisstic and following toxic communities online probably did not help either.

Well, boys, there you have it -- a woman's opinion that confirms the claim that a man's looks are not everything do a woman, and that a man's attitude, actions, and words count for a lot.

A woman going a step or two down from their initial dream guy they have envisioned, doesn't mean they are settling for someone they find totally undesirable.

And well I am not going to comment on the bit about casual sex, because I've never been interested in that.

or he could look like a fireplug on stilts and whine nasally like a nerd and as long as he is an alpha billionaire microsofty he will have women throwing themselves at him.

If you're on about Bill Gates I'll throw myself at him for money too. Even my booty has a value.

yeh, i suppose i would also. i've been trying to keep myself slim for just such an occasion.

Even the Pope will. Money talks after all but only to an extent.

Money talks; bushlit walks.

And he who walks, walks alone.

Tell me, ironpony, who are "they" that say this? Women themselves? Men who are actually successful with women on a regular basis?

If two men are of equal attractiveness, the more humorous one may have an advantage. But a good looking guy with no sense of humor is most certainly preferred over an ugly guy trying to be funny. If a good-looking guy says "My girlfriend loves my sense of humor, just be funny," he's either oblivious to the fact that he's better looking than he realizes...or, he's scared, knowing if he was just a little bit uglier, his sense of humor would be meaningless and she wouldn't want him.



Look up Clay Marzo. He's a professional surfer diagnosed with Autism. He says things that even a lot of Aspies would intellectually know not to say in casual conversation. Yet, he has no trouble with women, as he's both an athlete and considered very handsome in the conventional sense. His "personality" is secondary and his looks allow him to get away with it.

I've noticed that rich people seem to have a much easier time but I can't help but think that can only go so far in helping you get laid........unless you pay for infinite hookers that is. Some utter bums have had a lot of luck. There was this one guy I know who always managed to get dates with hot women and he was utterly broke.

His behavior didn't help. Though much of it may have been shaped by his looks and appearance and how he was treated compared to how his better looking peers were treated. Crazy comes in all appearances, from really good-looking to hideously unattractive. Most people aren't crazy, hopefully.

But in his case, if he'd been better looking but with the same disposition, he'd most likely struggle to keep a relationship, which could have led to the same outcome but with a different motive. As was, looks are most important to "getting in the door" with women. He couldn't get in the door.

Yes, an Adonis might struggle if he's a terrible person, but he'd still be given a chance. The sad truth about life is that there are things beyond our control, including how we look. We can change our haircut and clothing style and lose weight and gain muscle. These things help, especially if you're already good-looking or average and being an out of shape bum is bringing your appearance down.

But at the end of the day, some people can't make it even doing these things. And yes, it does affect their personality. Don't be shocked when some out of work bum is able to get women and the guy who worked hard to improve himself still struggles. It's all dependent upon how attractive the man is TO WOMEN...not how you or I perceive these men.

A lot of it is Theory of Mind...you can't perceive a man's attractiveness the way a woman can and know what's going on in the female mind. Also, it's scary to think that if you were the same person, same personality, but just a little bit uglier, your prospects may be much slimmer. Again, not talking about the Elephant Man or a burn victim. A seemingly "normal looking" guy to other men that women find ugly.

I'm largely speaking to my own experiences, I'm not great looking but somehow have avoided falling into the trap of incel thought and actions. That pattern of behaviour is more toxic to one's romantic possibilities than looking slightly subpar and all of the arguments fixated on appearance in the world aren't going to convince me otherwise.

I agree, it's a toxic mentality that doesn't help.

However, how you define "slightly subpar" is irrelevant. You may consider yourself slightly subpar, but you may be more attractive than you think to women. You may think your friend is better looking than you, but women may not. It's a very fine line, something most men don't understand. You really can't judge.

Yes, a good-looking or average looking guy with "issues" will struggle. He may even have to take action to get results. Glad you took action. Realize if you were even more subpar than you are now, your actions would have been meaningless.

Scary, I know.

There's plenty of people uglier than the average incel who's attitudes and actions don't repulse people though, so blaming it entirely on looks is just an oversimplification and a cop-out that lets people blame what they can't control instead of focusing on what they can control. I'm sorry if you've fallen for it.

I honestly don't know what the average incel looks like. I'm very literal with the term and think it can apply to anyone who is involuntarily celibate, male or female, for whatever reason, regardless of their beliefs and thoughts on life.

And yes, as I've said, a good looking or average looking guy or gal with other issues may definitely alienate others and he or she may end up involuntarily celibate apart from looks.

What I was speaking on is a male-female dynamic (and quite possibly an AS-NT dynamic) regarding looks. As a man, you're in NO position to judge if a man is good looking, average, or ugly IN THE EYES OF WOMEN.

See, a good-looking guy can have other issues that cause social problems. A man seemingly less attractive looking than him may do fine with women. Regardless, both of these men are in the passable/foot-in-the-door camp. There are some men who aren't. And these are men that you, personally, would think look fine as they are, but women don't. Theory of Mind.