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Closet Genious
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13 Apr 2018, 1:24 am

magz wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
The big reason behind why men love to make money, is because women absolutely love money.

You seem to be consistently ignoring all the information contradicting your beliefs.
Some women absolutely love money. Sure. And some men are narcissistic jerks.
In both cases – definitely not all.


I could say the same to you. You seem to be ignoring some pretty consistent trends occuring on a global level.



magz
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13 Apr 2018, 2:33 am

Closet Genious wrote:
I could say the same to you. You seem to be ignoring some pretty consistent trends occuring on a global level.

Because I start believing in global trends only after I see professional statistic analysis and peek into data collection methods to carefully look for possible biases.
In general, not only in L&D.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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13 Apr 2018, 2:47 am

magz wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
I could say the same to you. You seem to be ignoring some pretty consistent trends occuring on a global level.

Because I start believing in global trends only after I see professional statistic analysis and peek into data collection methods to carefully look for possible biases.
In general, not only in L&D.


There are plenty of professional statistics and studies that prove the trend Closet Genious is talking about, you just need to google them.



magz
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13 Apr 2018, 2:51 am

Sorry but with "you just need to google them" any theory or statistics I found a flaw in could be dismissed as "you googled wrong".

I can discuss with something substantial, I can even change my mind if provided with solid data but I won't waste my time and energy on analysing all the BS on the Internet.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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13 Apr 2018, 3:17 am

magz wrote:
Sorry but with "you just need to google them" any theory or statistics I found a flaw in could be dismissed as "you googled wrong".

I can discuss with something substantial, I can even change my mind if provided with solid data but I won't waste my time and energy on analysing all the BS on the Internet.


So in other term, you prefer to burry your head in the sand.



The_Face_of_Boo
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13 Apr 2018, 3:20 am

For those who don't like to bury their heads in the sands:

https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... te_publics

and this study was done by feminists btw - published in Feminist Media Studies.



magz
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13 Apr 2018, 3:24 am

No, I really do a lot of work carefully reading articles.

The one you sent has the same bias as all your dating sites experiments: the contributors are a very selected part of the society (active on some sex-oriented online service).
So the results may be valid for a specific part of the society but it's too little to legitimately claim it "global".

Next please.


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Last edited by magz on 13 Apr 2018, 3:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

The_Face_of_Boo
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13 Apr 2018, 3:27 am

magz wrote:
No, I really do a lot of work carefully reading articles.

The one you sent has the same bias as all your dating sites experiments: the contributors are a very selected part of the society (active on some sex-oriented online service).

Next please.



I didn't send it to you, I know that you'll deny all such studies even if the sample is the entire female population of Earth.



magz
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13 Apr 2018, 3:30 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
magz wrote:
No, I really do a lot of work carefully reading articles.

The one you sent has the same bias as all your dating sites experiments: the contributors are a very selected part of the society (active on some sex-oriented online service).

Next please.



I didn't send it to you, I know that you'll deny all such studies even if the sample is the entire female population of Earth.

Find one and we talk.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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13 Apr 2018, 3:32 am

magz wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
magz wrote:
No, I really do a lot of work carefully reading articles.

The one you sent has the same bias as all your dating sites experiments: the contributors are a very selected part of the society (active on some sex-oriented online service).

Next please.



I didn't send it to you, I know that you'll deny all such studies even if the sample is the entire female population of Earth.

Find one and we talk.


I am not your secretary. Do your own search.



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13 Apr 2018, 3:36 am

For Closet and Chronos, sly you also should see this one.


Quote:
Abstract
Parental investment hypotheses regarding mate selection suggest that human males should seek partners featured by youth and high fertility. However, females should be more sensitive to resources that can be invested on themselves and their offspring. Previous studies indicate that economic status is indeed important in male attractiveness. However, no previous study has quantified and compared the impact of equivalent resources on male and female attractiveness. Annual salary is a direct way to evaluate economic status. Here, we combined images of male and female body shape with information on annual salary to elucidate the influence of economic status on the attractiveness ratings by opposite sex raters in American, Chinese and European populations. We found that ratings of attractiveness were around 1000 times more sensitive to salary for females rating males, compared to males rating females. These results indicate that higher economic status can offset lower physical attractiveness in men much more easily than in women. Neither raters' BMI nor age influenced this effect for females rating male attractiveness. This difference explains many features of human mating behavior and may pose a barrier for male engagement in low-consumption lifestyles.

http://www.ehbonline.org/article/S1090-5138(17)30315-X/pdf



Closet Genious
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13 Apr 2018, 3:44 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
For Closet and Chronos, sly you also should see this one.


Quote:
Abstract
Parental investment hypotheses regarding mate selection suggest that human males should seek partners featured by youth and high fertility. However, females should be more sensitive to resources that can be invested on themselves and their offspring. Previous studies indicate that economic status is indeed important in male attractiveness. However, no previous study has quantified and compared the impact of equivalent resources on male and female attractiveness. Annual salary is a direct way to evaluate economic status. Here, we combined images of male and female body shape with information on annual salary to elucidate the influence of economic status on the attractiveness ratings by opposite sex raters in American, Chinese and European populations. We found that ratings of attractiveness were around 1000 times more sensitive to salary for females rating males, compared to males rating females. These results indicate that higher economic status can offset lower physical attractiveness in men much more easily than in women. Neither raters' BMI nor age influenced this effect for females rating male attractiveness. This difference explains many features of human mating behavior and may pose a barrier for male engagement in low-consumption lifestyles.

http://www.ehbonline.org/article/S1090-5138(17)30315-X/pdf


Only a 1000 times? That must be a coincidence!



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13 Apr 2018, 3:52 am

Closet Genious wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
For Closet and Chronos, sly you also should see this one.


Quote:
Abstract
Parental investment hypotheses regarding mate selection suggest that human males should seek partners featured by youth and high fertility. However, females should be more sensitive to resources that can be invested on themselves and their offspring. Previous studies indicate that economic status is indeed important in male attractiveness. However, no previous study has quantified and compared the impact of equivalent resources on male and female attractiveness. Annual salary is a direct way to evaluate economic status. Here, we combined images of male and female body shape with information on annual salary to elucidate the influence of economic status on the attractiveness ratings by opposite sex raters in American, Chinese and European populations. We found that ratings of attractiveness were around 1000 times more sensitive to salary for females rating males, compared to males rating females. These results indicate that higher economic status can offset lower physical attractiveness in men much more easily than in women. Neither raters' BMI nor age influenced this effect for females rating male attractiveness. This difference explains many features of human mating behavior and may pose a barrier for male engagement in low-consumption lifestyles.

http://www.ehbonline.org/article/S1090-5138(17)30315-X/pdf


Only a 1000 times? That must be a coincidence!



Maybe they forgot a couple of zeroes.



magz
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13 Apr 2018, 4:09 am

Let's sort something out beacuse it seems in the fervor of discussion our positions shifted (a common phenomenon).

I do agree with the parental investment model. It makes sense. It means, males can make up for their physical atractiveness with social status while women are unlikely to succeed this way.
I do agree with statistical differences in types of disfunctional behaviors between genders – men are more often diagnosed narcissistic, women are more often diagnosed borderline.

What I don't agree with are generalisations like "all women just want money" or "all men look for pretty, submissive idiots". And I very strongly disagree with conclusions that some seem to draw from it, that if a man wants a woman, the only way is to become rich or that a woman should pretend to be dumber than she is to find a mate or that she needs to avoid relationships if she's not willing to obey her male master all the time. These are not true, althought they seem to be present in popular culture of the US.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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13 Apr 2018, 6:19 am

magz wrote:
Let's sort something out beacuse it seems in the fervor of discussion our positions shifted (a common phenomenon).

I do agree with the parental investment model. It makes sense. It means, males can make up for their physical atractiveness with social status while women are unlikely to succeed this way.
I do agree with statistical differences in types of disfunctional behaviors between genders – men are more often diagnosed narcissistic, women are more often diagnosed borderline.

What I don't agree with are generalisations like "all women just want money" or "all men look for pretty, submissive idiots". And I very strongly disagree with conclusions that some seem to draw from it, that if a man wants a woman, the only way is to become rich or that a woman should pretend to be dumber than she is to find a mate or that she needs to avoid relationships if she's not willing to obey her male master all the time. These are not true, althought they seem to be present in popular culture of the US.


No one worded it like that, we are saying that making money is a very important trait in men for women. About 1000 more important than wealth in women for men.



magz
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13 Apr 2018, 6:59 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
magz wrote:
Let's sort something out beacuse it seems in the fervor of discussion our positions shifted (a common phenomenon).

I do agree with the parental investment model. It makes sense. It means, males can make up for their physical atractiveness with social status while women are unlikely to succeed this way.
I do agree with statistical differences in types of disfunctional behaviors between genders – men are more often diagnosed narcissistic, women are more often diagnosed borderline.

What I don't agree with are generalisations like "all women just want money" or "all men look for pretty, submissive idiots". And I very strongly disagree with conclusions that some seem to draw from it, that if a man wants a woman, the only way is to become rich or that a woman should pretend to be dumber than she is to find a mate or that she needs to avoid relationships if she's not willing to obey her male master all the time. These are not true, althought they seem to be present in popular culture of the US.


No one worded it like that, we are saying that making money is a very important trait in men for women. About 1000 more important than wealth in women for men.

So it looks we agree :cheers:
As a general bias-seeker, I would only look if it is actually money or social status – they are connected but capitalism equates them, which isn't obvious in general.


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