I Have Given Up.

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Oh no. Of course he didn't state it directly. People don't. When I say "vibe" I don't mean something that was said, I meant the non-verbals. And the verbals too. You can broadcast "I want a girlfriend. Will you be my girlfriend?" with words without ever saying that specifically. The term "vibe" generally means that whatever it was wasn't said directly.

In all honesty, while "I want a discardable sex object/one night stand" is creepy, to me at least, "I am shopping for a girlfriend" is even creepier. Different women are different but I will explain why I personally would find "I am shopping for a girlfriend" creepier than "I am shopping for sex for tonight and never to see you again". It's counter-intuitive, I know. Here's why: the man who is looking just for sex just for tonight just wants a little piece of you- a little piece of whichever woman fits his probably wide specs. He isn't asking for your heart,soul,mind,time or even very much time. He only wants one body part and he only wants that for a short time. Creepy, yes. But it's pretty easy to shake off somebody like that if you aren't ibnterested, which lowers the creep factor.

The guy who gives off the "I am shopping for a girlfriend and you fit my list of specs" is creepier to me because he is asking for so much more. He isn't in love. How could he be if he doesn't know anything about you except that you match a list of specs? He's hungry. But he's hungry for so much more than just sex just one night. He wants to swallow you whole: heart, soul, mind, time, everything. The "one night stand" guy doesn't care about you as a person. He just wants sex. However, the "girlfriend shopping" guy doesn't care about you as a person either. But he wants so much more than sex. He wants to take and take and take. And he's harder to shake off than "one night stand" guy- who moves on rather quickly.

It's romantic when somebody falls in love with you as a unique individual. Even when the love isn't reciprocated, it is still seen as "sweet but annoying" rather than creepy. Because your individual qualities have been appreciated. But somebody who just wants "a girlfriend- how about you?" is creepy. Being "shopped for" is creepy.

But that could easily be my minority opinion. After all, plenty of women join dating sites and what are those but catalogues that people shop from?

The reason why I gave the thumbs up to Dilbert's advice even though it is couched in "this is the game, these are the rules" terminology is because he stated so emphatically that these things should be done with no expectations. It was the insistence on no expectations that sold me.

Last edited by Janissy on 09 Sep 2009, 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Thanks for recognizing and acknowledging that.
My directness has been putting people off since I was a kid, but it's impossible for me to operate any other way. Though I consider myself amoral, I *do* live by my own code of ethics and standards; I wouldn't be manipulative or a game-player even if I knew how.

Going on the independent meaning of words can, sometimes, prove beneficial. You may have a point with people being classified as "special needs" being that certain way, if they don't resent it and want to raise above the curve. However, just going from the meaning of words, without relevant knowledge, it might be possible to think that the word "electromagnetism" has to with a religion worshiping a mineral called amber.

I said I was giving up men dozens of times, and every time I knew I was just fooling myself. Now, for the first time, it's real. No more bitterness or depression over it (I have enough other things to be bitter and depressed about). It's a nice surprise, this lack of need for a significant other. But I think giving up on finding someone is not really an effort of will, and you can't mad yourself into it. It eventually just happens, maybe with the changes the years bring. It's nice though. I recommend looking forward to the day when you genuinely do not give a damn. Dating takes way too much time and effort.

The older you get the harder it gets. If you never had success in relationships before then it would be quasi-impossible to succeed now, you've missed the boat.
You're 39 now, so yes, I think it's time to give up ,stop wasting your time in seeking ,stop giving it a damn and enjoy what's left of your life.

I appreciate your opinion, and I understand the "insta-relationship" people being creepy as well, but I wouldn't nessasarily say they are creepier in my opinion, I don't understand the reasoning behind gameplaying or insta-relationships.



I fully understand that, but strangely enough there are insta-relationshipers who get their insta-relationship, of course the value of the relationship tends to be low though. I would think to fall in love with a person you would have to be really good friends with them, you would have to know the person very well and be extremely comfortable around them, you strike me to be along the same line of thought as myself on this perhaps?



They're easily dealable with if you know how to deal with them, if they start stalking you "restraining order", if they call to much "block them". Of course honesty is the best policy and it's best just to say no, if they throw a tantrum just ignore it, if they as I said then do then do what is prescribed (Restraining Order/Phone blocking).



Well no expections should be held if none are promised, but if expections are promised then they should be held, however "insta-relationship" or "sex" is not an expectation that should be held or even promised and meeting new people should be about establishing a friendship or just an activity to do (activity partners, party, ect.), infact if a strange girl promised me an insta-relationship or sex, I'd think she's weird and would probably walk away from her.



I'd put you as morally-nuetral, if it's between two-consenting adults engaging in a mutual act then it's nuetral and really isn't anybody elses buisness. With game-players the two agents usually have different objectives rather than a mutual one, game-playing could be seen abit like scamming a person, whereas two people who are consenting to casual sex are both consenting, the contract is in bold print, while the game-player has very small fine-print written on their contract.

Good grief, here's another unhelpful (and perhaps even unrealistic) blanket statement.
I'm 41, and though I blab incessantly about giving up/wanting to give up, that's probably never going to be the case (as frustrating and gut-wrenching as it is). You're telling this person to give up all hope; for me, that's tantamount to a living death. "What's left of" the OP's life could be 50 years or 5, it's irrelevant. How can it be a "life" at all when it's devoid of life?

Life is phases, he missed the phase when he was supposed to find a mate, I am not trying to be a discourager but let's be realistic: he's late.

And it would be risky to keep trying on that while not enjoying the other aspects of life, so here I was suggesting a better plan: give up and enjoy your life while you can,use your savings to travel around ,if it happens to find a mate by chance then it would be good ,if not then it would good too. Don't screw the upcoming phases of your life.
Celibacy has its advantages after all.

You're talking about popular social constructs and hegemonic definitions of human normality, which are illogical and baseless, imho. There's no such thing as "supposed to." People can find mates at 18 or 80. He's "late" in relation to predominantly Western societal norms regarding optimal ages at which to achieve "important" (i.e., valued by the masses) life goals (for instance, attending college, landing one's first "real" job, building one's career, finding a mate and marrying, having children, etc.).

Ceasing to *obsess* over not being able to find a mate IS something that could be beneficial to the OP, however; this may require some counseling (which I know will be necessary in my case). As someone who's spent years in a state of involuntary celibacy, I beg to differ. Celibacy SUCKS (or doesn't, as the case may be... ).

Yes it makes sense. It describes me as I was when I first learned I had AS.... for about a month. I let the new label take over my life. I became depressed again. I haven't been depressed since I started working out three years ago. I also became unmotivated, less social, more sensitive to sensory stimuli, and more unapproachable.

That lasted about a month, at which time I kicked myself in the rear end and got on with my life. I'm happy again. I WILL NOT allow the diagnosis of some "condition" influencing my life.

To Demon-Chorus, oh boy I don't know where to begin to re-educate you. First of all, your posting style makes it difficult for me to respond to all your points. I'll try to explain my general thoughts.

I'm the last person in the World one could call a conformist or a cookie-cutter society member. Read some of my other posts on these forums. I reject the societal norms and customs which aren't based on some solid ground. In other words, if there is no reasonable or logical reason why people do what they do, then that custom is laughable if not pitiable from where I stand.

However, when it comes to making personal connections, be it friendships or relationships, one absolutely HAS TO follow the norms of the society, or else you'll spend the rest of your life alone. That's an option. It is your choice if you wish to live alone.

How could we expect the public to accept our differences, if we are rejecting their customs at the same time?

I did not suggest the OP becoming manipulative or, let's face it, the word we are looking for here is a hypocrite. He simply needs to behave in a way a young single woman would expect him to behave. It isn't manipulative and it most certainly isn't creepy! Where did you get that? Oh dude... I wish I could talk to you in person. Everything you've advocated for in your reply? THAT'S CREEPY! Approaching love and relationships and sexuality with such... analytical tools is the definition of creepy.

Why in the world do you think AS guys have such difficulties with meeting women?! It sure isn't because they want sex or relationships. That's precisely what a single woman wants as well. We are all human and we all have the same desires.

I will quote this because it made me laugh.



YES OF COURSE IT IS OBVIOUS! Gawd kid! It is supposed to be subtle but obvious. You can't beat around the bush and keep approaching the same woman over and over without asking her out. That's what AS guys do and THAT's creepy. Make your motives known. And the motive should be: lunch or dinner, and good conversation. Nothing more.

Play the game, or live alone in an underground bunker. Your choice. Shrug.

Yes, we are along the same line of thought as that. Clearly there are men and women both who want insta-relationships. Humanity is diverse enough that for anything that I insist "women don't want that" some women actually will. But some approaches are so ill-advised that the number of women who would actually respond positively is quite low, which is what makes the approach ill advised.

For all the flak that "friend zone" gets here, I look more positively on that because it shows a willingness to see a woman as a unique individual. I know that some of the flak is deserved because if one pines while the other is just friends, the imbalance is toxic to both. But there are posters who report a friendship that turned to romance. And when friendship and attraction exist in both people, love is possible. When friendship and attraction grow at the same rate in both people after they meet, love is possible. We absolutely have matching views on this.

How do you suggest we meet a person in the first place? And then how do you suggest we become really good friends next? Think about it. You need to go out there and meet people. Or I suppose one could limit oneself to interacting with the two eligible neighbors, one sister's friend, and Sally in accounting department? What do you do when none of them are interested? You go out there and meet people!! !

Unless you are surrounded by scores of eligible single people (school and college and no where else!) you have to make the first contact somehow, and do it in such a way that places no demands and conveys no long term expectations.

Do you have any idea how creepy and desperate that sounds? If you have been describing yourself as being on a 'girlfriend quest' or behaving as such, you will have actually been scaring women away as behaviour/actions like this make a lot of women feel very uncomfortable. I have had men approach me in such a way in the past and, not only has it upset me and made me feel uncomfortable, it made me angry as they all made me feel it was their right to approch me in such a manner like I was the latest toy they wanted to buy or that they felt I was like a prostitute. It's degrading. Don't actively seek for women like this as, no matter how nice you are, going on a desperate 'quest for girlfriends' will not reflect that and you will get let down.



If you were making youself come across as I have described above, then, although you can't really justify 'nasty words', this is why. If you were not, then shame on the ladies for making nasty remarks to you. Brush offs you just have to deal with, hell it's happened enough times to me.



Describe what you mean by 'open-minded' as so far, IMO, you have not come across that way as you have not explained how you were open-minded. In fact, particularly with your last three statements, you have made a sweeping generalisation against women, one that could also very easily be made against men. But then, at the age of 26, I'm a bit more mature than to do that.



Dating sites are a piece of nonsense anyway, I hardly know anyone who has had any real success with these. I know one person out of the many that I know who have used them, and that's it.



These are the last three statements that I said were sweeping generalisations. I will use myself as an example.

I'm currently with a guy who is incapacitated to the point where he can't work and will never be able to ever again, therefore, he doesn't have this 'Hollywood Hunk Beef Cake' appearance (nor did he when I first met him, it was his personality that attracted me, looks matter not to me but I do find him attractive), he is rather slender and untoned owing to the fact that he cannot exercise. Besides, you may not believe this, but I really dislike the feature you think women want today as I don't like rippling muscles, I never have done, to me it doesn't look natural. Plus, people who look like this have to do a lot of work to maintain this look, and a man who spends too much time in the bathroom or flexing his muscles constantly is just not a turn-on for me.

You say that looks don't last forever - if you really love someone, you really don't notice that as you will always find that person to be beautiful. But then, as I am a woman, in your opinion, I can't see the wood for the trees and so, therefore, by that reasoning, I am lying. I will tell you this now matey, I am not. Another thing that seems to be true is that, as men get older, they are described as being 'more mature' or 'like a good fine wine' whereas as women get older, some are told we are past it. Who has the better deal here?

As for the whole 'women are trouble' thing, are we? How? Speaking for myself, I would not regard my actions as being 'trouble' as I fully support my non-'Hollywood Hunk Beef Cake' boyfriend and will always be there for him as I love him. I think your approach really needs to change with regards women - don't look for an instant date/relationship, try making friends first and see where it goes from there. If something else does come from it, it will be a relationship you will both value as you will go into with a better understanding of each other, and you will be ultimately happier. I have found that happiness takes time and that it's worth the wait.

^^ Bravo! I basically told him the same thing regarding the "girlfriend quest". That's not how one approaches these things.

I'm concerned that he won't be back in this topic and read all these replies. There is some wonderful advice in here.

Edit: I didn't see that Dilbert responded to another post of mine.

Mutual friends, family, special interest activities, work, ect.



If you have good friends and an idea on what constitutes being a good friend for both yourself and another that is on equal-grounds then you should know. Basically be their friend, they're a human being just like yourself, they have thoughts, feelings, opinions, and a perspective which may be different from your own but it's still real, treat them as you would want to be treated, discuss yourself honestly and if you accidently hurt their feelings or have a misunderstanding, apologize and clear everything up. Also you shouldn't go into a friendship with a girl with the ultimate motive of getting with her, you need to be her friend, and when I say that, I mean exactly that, no hidden motives.



What if they're still interested in being your friend? I think you should still be their friend.



There is no expectations if you're just trying to be their friend, if romance happens then it will just happen naturally and spontaneously.



I like it when people share different opinions and criticize me, it helps me learn, just don't think I won't debate back.



I've made friendships without following the norms, yeah I don't have a 1000 friends, but I prefer quality over quantity. 1 best friend (who happens to be a girl by the way), 2 good friends, a family that cares about you and over a dozen aquaintences is better than having a thousand fake "clone" friends who don't give a rip about you. I prefer the company of people I care for and care about me over people who think I should be "just like them" or a "mimicry machine".



What do you define as "alone"? I have friends and family, not having a girlfriend? Oh well, whatever happens, happens. I'm already well aware of the idea of dying alone, it used to bother me alot, not so much anymore though. Besides, who's to say I won't get into a relationship in the future, no one can read the future and I've been being true to myself and I'm doing quite fine so far.



Dude, it's not a custom, and if it were, customs have changed and will continue to change. Alot of NTs don't even play by those silly rules.



Gameplaying is manipulative and creepy, and it's analytical, it's everything you just said was creepy, and since when did I say anything on romance that's analytical? I said what happens, happens, that's the usual NT take on romance, and why would you want to talk to me in person over an internet debate? That's really off.



Do what you want, I don't care what you do with your life.



Well you were talking about motives and the motive was still obvious, it's just that the motive is disguised in a "people like to think is crytic, but isn't really" message.



I don't approach strangers unless I have something to ask them (the time, directions, to borrow a light because I don't have a lighter for my ciggerattes, to purchase something).



Yeah, I think I'll stick with my friends and letting time tell than picking up random strangers.



I can't remember how I used to view the "friend zone" idea, but it is more positive than people give it credit and I now see it as a good thing and I agree it shows a willingness and understanding that women are people too. If a guy really likes her, then he'll appretiate her, accept her as an equal, and be her friend first and foremost. I view the basis of any good type of relationship whether it be platonic friendship, romantic or familial to be of the "give and take" variety, of course there are other variables as well like trust, acceptance, willingness to discuss, fun (of course) ect.

Last edited by Demon-Chorus on 09 Sep 2009, 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I've heard that too. It sucks for me though as I'm 30 and have never had a single female friend my entire life. All my friendships are centered around various activities/interests and unfortunately, they're dominated by other guys.