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Are attractive women usually taken?

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RICKY5
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08 Jul 2010, 12:02 am

hale_bopp wrote:
billsmithglendale wrote:

Not always, but yes, that can happen, and if it does, it's your fault.

First off -- women only friend zone guys that they don't plan on sleeping with or dating. So if a woman suddenly becomes way too casual with you, takes you for granted, uses you with no sign of reciprocation -- cut them off. Don't be nasty, just stop calling, taking her calls, etc. She'll get the hint. And you won't lose anything, because there was nothing there in the first place if you got friend zoned.

But there are other friends, the ones where you both know you like each other -- those you won't get friend zoned by.

Learn to tell the difference, and you'll be a happy man.


Speaking from a womans perspective, we don't "friend zone" someone because of what we have "planned". Please don't try and tell me what women think - you aren't a woman. Also some women cannot pick up a hint that someone likes them and automatically friend zones the guy and is hurt when the guy no longer wants to be her "friend" and I think its disrespectful to pretend to be someones friend then cut them off when they don't give you sex or a relationship.


So what?

Why would I want to hang out with someone who sees me as a way to get free drinks, dinners, and a sounding board to complain to?



zen_mistress
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08 Jul 2010, 12:11 am

Re Angelina Jolie, I think a lot of the reason she is such a popular sex symbol is her androgeny. Just as many women fancy her as men. A lot of men arent into her though. I dont think her lips have collagen in it at all, I have seen photos of her at 16- she just has huge lips.

TBH I prefer Jennifer Aniston, I dont know why though.

Anyway, I dont think there is such thing as being friend zoned. Almost all my boyfriends have started as friends, some I have known up to 10 years. Sometimes relationships take time.


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hale_bopp
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08 Jul 2010, 12:44 am

RICKY5 wrote:
hale_bopp wrote:
billsmithglendale wrote:

Not always, but yes, that can happen, and if it does, it's your fault.

First off -- women only friend zone guys that they don't plan on sleeping with or dating. So if a woman suddenly becomes way too casual with you, takes you for granted, uses you with no sign of reciprocation -- cut them off. Don't be nasty, just stop calling, taking her calls, etc. She'll get the hint. And you won't lose anything, because there was nothing there in the first place if you got friend zoned.

But there are other friends, the ones where you both know you like each other -- those you won't get friend zoned by.

Learn to tell the difference, and you'll be a happy man.


Speaking from a womans perspective, we don't "friend zone" someone because of what we have "planned". Please don't try and tell me what women think - you aren't a woman. Also some women cannot pick up a hint that someone likes them and automatically friend zones the guy and is hurt when the guy no longer wants to be her "friend" and I think its disrespectful to pretend to be someones friend then cut them off when they don't give you sex or a relationship.


So what?

Why would I want to hang out with someone who sees me as a way to get free drinks, dinners, and a sounding board to complain to?


You buy drinks and dinners for your friends? Jeepers

What I meant was, don't fake a friendship if you don't even want one.



Adam82
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08 Jul 2010, 6:45 am

RICKY5 wrote:
BrandonSP wrote:
I've sought a girlfriend for two years, yet it has been my experience that almost all the women my age who I find attractive claim to already have boyfriends. Are these women telling the truth, or is pretending to have a boyfriend the current popular way to reject a man's advances?


Attractive women can be had for $250 so what's the point of chasing after them?


Because money can't buy you love. Why would you want to be used by someone who only wants you for your money? Don't you want them to love you for you?



Northeastern292
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08 Jul 2010, 7:06 am

BrandonSP wrote:
I've sought a girlfriend for two years, yet it has been my experience that almost all the women my age who I find attractive claim to already have boyfriends. Are these women telling the truth, or is pretending to have a boyfriend the current popular way to reject a man's advances?


I used to believe that, until I started dating seriously last year. But yes, sometimes, pretending to have a boyfriend is a quite popular way to reject, or in some cases, saying that all you want are one night stands.



billsmithglendale
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08 Jul 2010, 10:26 am

hale_bopp wrote:
billsmithglendale wrote:

Not always, but yes, that can happen, and if it does, it's your fault.

First off -- women only friend zone guys that they don't plan on sleeping with or dating. So if a woman suddenly becomes way too casual with you, takes you for granted, uses you with no sign of reciprocation -- cut them off. Don't be nasty, just stop calling, taking her calls, etc. She'll get the hint. And you won't lose anything, because there was nothing there in the first place if you got friend zoned.

But there are other friends, the ones where you both know you like each other -- those you won't get friend zoned by.

Learn to tell the difference, and you'll be a happy man.


Speaking from a womans perspective, we don't "friend zone" someone because of what we have "planned". Please don't try and tell me what women think - you aren't a woman. Also some women cannot pick up a hint that someone likes them and automatically friend zones the guy and is hurt when the guy no longer wants to be her "friend" and I think its disrespectful to pretend to be someones friend then cut them off when they don't give you sex or a relationship.


Please -- I don't need to be a woman to know that someone who is friend-zoned is off the menu permanently. Maybe you as a woman don't know what "friend-zoned" means to men, just like how most women seem incapable of predicting what woman is pretty to a particular man. I'm not being sexist here -- Men have the same handicap in the opposite situation (telling which man might be attractive to a woman). What we men mean by "friend-zoned" is being on the list of people a certain woman will never sleep with or consider a relationship with, yet will feel free to impinge on their free time, emotionally manipulate (in certain cases), and generally use as an emotional crutch, punching bag, or fake boyfriend to boost their value. I've had women who had no romantic interest in me whatsoever intentionally spoil my chances with other women (by scaring them off, using relational aggression, and calling them out prematurely) so that they could maintain this parasitic relationship, so please don't tell me what I do and don't know.

I think you're reading way too much into my statement above. Women either are attracted to a man or they aren't, same as men. Whatever gender differences there are, we all have that instant sorting process where we put someone from the opposite sex into the "maybe" or "never" bucket. So if that's what's bugging you, relabel what I put above with that instead. If it's hitting a little too close to the truth for your comfort, well, not my problem, there are other threads on this board, and a lot of men here seem to appreciate my candid input.

It's one thing to have a female friend with whom you gradually build to a romantic relationship -- it's another thing to be "friend-zoned." I've been in both places, and smart guys learn to tell the warning signs either way.



billsmithglendale
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08 Jul 2010, 10:30 am

zen_mistress wrote:
Re Angelina Jolie, I think a lot of the reason she is such a popular sex symbol is her androgeny. Just as many women fancy her as men. A lot of men arent into her though. I dont think her lips have collagen in it at all, I have seen photos of her at 16- she just has huge lips.

TBH I prefer Jennifer Aniston, I dont know why though.

Anyway, I dont think there is such thing as being friend zoned. Almost all my boyfriends have started as friends, some I have known up to 10 years. Sometimes relationships take time.


See my post above RE: friends vs. friend-zoned -- this seems to be a blind spot that a lot of women have RE: male terminology and relationships with women. You must be a very nice person who does not lead people on or use them -- unfortunately, not everyone is like you, as many of us learn the hard way (of either gender).



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08 Jul 2010, 10:56 am

It occurred to me that lots of people probably don't know the signs of being a friend (with possibilities) vs. being friend-zoned (usually a parasitic relationship), or what we mean by this -- let me spell it out here for clarity and for the edification of guys who do want to know, and for clarity to the few women who have commented thus far:

Generally (between men and women)--

Friend -- a relationship of equals, with almost limitless possibilities between the two, up and including eventually dating.

Friend Zone -- one party expects more than the other, while the other party uses this asymmetry in expectations consciously or unconsciously to their advantage. Will never have a relationship with the guy who is on the other end of this "friendship."

Friend -- "Would you like to study together sometime?" -- note, no precise end goal, the real point is to either spend time together, mutually improve skills in an academic area, or both

Friend Zone -- "I'm having trouble with this paper we have due on Wednesday, can you come over and help me?" -- In this case, a definite output for the situation, the emphasis is on only helping her, not you. Your "reward" is presumably the "privilege" (and if you like her, you view it that way) of getting to be around her.

Friend -- Calls you any time, out of the blue, for any reason at all, or nothing, with no expectation that she wants something particular from you other than your company or what is going on in your life. She will ask about your life and what is going on, and if she likes you, will even pay attention to what you say.

Friend Zone -- Calls you only when she wants something. A letter of Rec, help with homework, answers for tomorrow's test, a shoulder to cry on, someone to talk about other guys to -- she won't really care about what is going on in your life and won't ask, except to be polite (if she does), and will not really listen to anything you say. If she remembers anything you do say, she will be very curt -- "yeah yeah, I remember you said that. Anyways, like I was saying....." Get the drift?

Friend -- Will look out for you, may even set you up with one of her friends, will help you find someone else if she isn't available for a relationship, or will at least offer pointers and input on what she thinks is attractive and important (hint hint).

Friend Zone -- Will actively block others from taking advantage of the same kind of parasitic relationship she has with you. She will not be helpful in giving you pointers (including what looks good to her), will not intro you to her female friends, and will discourage your attempts to date other people and her. You lose and keep losing with a "friend" like this.

Friend -- "Would you like to go to coffee/a movie/dinner with me?"

Friend Zone -- "I don't have anyone to go with and you're a human with a heartbeat. This outing means nothing other than I have someone to jaw at all night"

Friend -- carries on a two-way conversation -- what you say is important.

Friend Zone -- basically gives a multi-hour speech, where you can't get in a word or where your words are basically forgotten or ignored.


Does this clarify?



b9
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08 Jul 2010, 11:10 am

billsmithglendale wrote:
It occurred to me that lots of people probably don't know the signs of being a friend (with possibilities) vs. being friend-zoned (usually a parasitic relationship), or what we mean by this -- let me spell it out here for clarity and for the edification of guys who do want to know, and for clarity to the few women who have commented thus far:

Generally (between men and women)--

Friend -- a relationship of equals, with almost limitless possibilities between the two, up and including eventually dating.

Friend Zone -- one party expects more than the other, while the other party uses this asymmetry in expectations consciously or unconsciously to their advantage. Will never have a relationship with the guy who is on the other end of this "friendship."

Friend -- "Would you like to study together sometime?" -- note, no precise end goal, the real point is to either spend time together, mutually improve skills in an academic area, or both

Friend Zone -- "I'm having trouble with this paper we have due on Wednesday, can you come over and help me?" -- In this case, a definite output for the situation, the emphasis is on only helping her, not you. Your "reward" is presumably the "privilege" (and if you like her, you view it that way) of getting to be around her.

Friend -- Calls you any time, out of the blue, for any reason at all, or nothing, with no expectation that she wants something particular from you other than your company or what is going on in your life. She will ask about your life and what is going on, and if she likes you, will even pay attention to what you say.

Friend Zone -- Calls you only when she wants something. A letter of Rec, help with homework, answers for tomorrow's test, a shoulder to cry on, someone to talk about other guys to -- she won't really care about what is going on in your life and won't ask, except to be polite (if she does), and will not really listen to anything you say. If she remembers anything you do say, she will be very curt -- "yeah yeah, I remember you said that. Anyways, like I was saying....." Get the drift?

Friend -- Will look out for you, may even set you up with one of her friends, will help you find someone else if she isn't available for a relationship, or will at least offer pointers and input on what she thinks is attractive and important (hint hint).

Friend Zone -- Will actively block others from taking advantage of the same kind of parasitic relationship she has with you. She will not be helpful in giving you pointers (including what looks good to her), will not intro you to her female friends, and will discourage your attempts to date other people and her. You lose and keep losing with a "friend" like this.

Friend -- "Would you like to go to coffee/a movie/dinner with me?"

Friend Zone -- "I don't have anyone to go with and you're a human with a heartbeat. This outing means nothing other than I have someone to jaw at all night"

Friend -- carries on a two-way conversation -- what you say is important.

Friend Zone -- basically gives a multi-hour speech, where you can't get in a word or where your words are basically forgotten or ignored.


Does this clarify?


goodness gracious me.
it seems life is complicated in a big city.



billsmithglendale
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08 Jul 2010, 11:18 am

b9 wrote:

goodness gracious me.
it seems life is complicated in a big city.


It sure is, especially for Aspies or near-Aspies.



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08 Jul 2010, 11:42 am

billsmithglendale wrote:
It occurred to me that lots of people probably don't know the signs of being a friend (with possibilities) vs. being friend-zoned (usually a parasitic relationship), or what we mean by this -- let me spell it out here for clarity and for the edification of guys who do want to know, and for clarity to the few women who have commented thus far:

Generally (between men and women)--

Friend -- a relationship of equals, with almost limitless possibilities between the two, up and including eventually dating.

Friend Zone -- one party expects more than the other, while the other party uses this asymmetry in expectations consciously or unconsciously to their advantage. Will never have a relationship with the guy who is on the other end of this "friendship."

Friend -- "Would you like to study together sometime?" -- note, no precise end goal, the real point is to either spend time together, mutually improve skills in an academic area, or both

Friend Zone -- "I'm having trouble with this paper we have due on Wednesday, can you come over and help me?" -- In this case, a definite output for the situation, the emphasis is on only helping her, not you. Your "reward" is presumably the "privilege" (and if you like her, you view it that way) of getting to be around her.

Friend -- Calls you any time, out of the blue, for any reason at all, or nothing, with no expectation that she wants something particular from you other than your company or what is going on in your life. She will ask about your life and what is going on, and if she likes you, will even pay attention to what you say.

Friend Zone -- Calls you only when she wants something. A letter of Rec, help with homework, answers for tomorrow's test, a shoulder to cry on, someone to talk about other guys to -- she won't really care about what is going on in your life and won't ask, except to be polite (if she does), and will not really listen to anything you say. If she remembers anything you do say, she will be very curt -- "yeah yeah, I remember you said that. Anyways, like I was saying....." Get the drift?

Friend -- Will look out for you, may even set you up with one of her friends, will help you find someone else if she isn't available for a relationship, or will at least offer pointers and input on what she thinks is attractive and important (hint hint).

Friend Zone -- Will actively block others from taking advantage of the same kind of parasitic relationship she has with you. She will not be helpful in giving you pointers (including what looks good to her), will not intro you to her female friends, and will discourage your attempts to date other people and her. You lose and keep losing with a "friend" like this.

Friend -- "Would you like to go to coffee/a movie/dinner with me?"

Friend Zone -- "I don't have anyone to go with and you're a human with a heartbeat. This outing means nothing other than I have someone to jaw at all night"

Friend -- carries on a two-way conversation -- what you say is important.

Friend Zone -- basically gives a multi-hour speech, where you can't get in a word or where your words are basically forgotten or ignored.


Does this clarify?


You have gone to a great deal iof trouble to make that chart. But no man on this board, including you, has ever used the term "friend zone" to mean anything other than "woman who will spend time with you but not sleep with you". I know exactly what hale-bopp is talking about. Women get accused of using a man if they actually spend time with a man who appears to like them yet don't have sex with him. Is sex the necessary price any woman must pay for a man's company or else she's using him? Why then the consensus that woman who actually do give in to sex are sluts? Women can't win. "Slut" if she says yes. "User" if she says no. "B*tch" if she tries to avoid the whole situation by not spending time with a man at all.

This chart claims to acknowledge that friendship between men and women is possible. Yet posting history has shown that if any man desires any woman and she spends any time with him, thinking they are friends but does not sleep with him, it's called "friend zone", regardless of where in that chart her behaviour actually is.



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08 Jul 2010, 11:58 am

Janissy wrote:

You have gone to a great deal iof trouble to make that chart. But no man on this board, including you, has ever used the term "friend zone" to mean anything other than "woman who will spend time with you but not sleep with you". I know exactly what hale-bopp is talking about. Women get accused of using a man if they actually spend time with a man who appears to like them yet don't have sex with him. Is sex the necessary price any woman must pay for a man's company or else she's using him? Why then the consensus that woman who actually do give in to sex are sluts? Women can't win. "Slut" if she says yes. "User" if she says no. "B*tch" if she tries to avoid the whole situation by not spending time with a man at all.

This chart claims to acknowledge that friendship between men and women is possible. Yet posting history has shown that if any man desires any woman and she spends any time with him, thinking they are friends but does not sleep with him, it's called "friend zone", regardless of where in that chart her behaviour actually is.


I don't see that I contradicted myself anywhere above vs. your initial point -- are we maybe in agreement?

Here's the thing -- is it wise or advisable to have a friendship with someone who obviously has interest in you (and women should be able to tell, men aren't subtle) but you do not reciprocate that interest? If you proceed with that relationship, who is leading on who?



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08 Jul 2010, 3:56 pm

billsmithglendale wrote:
zen_mistress wrote:
Re Angelina Jolie, I think a lot of the reason she is such a popular sex symbol is her androgeny. Just as many women fancy her as men. A lot of men arent into her though. I dont think her lips have collagen in it at all, I have seen photos of her at 16- she just has huge lips.

TBH I prefer Jennifer Aniston, I dont know why though.

Anyway, I dont think there is such thing as being friend zoned. Almost all my boyfriends have started as friends, some I have known up to 10 years. Sometimes relationships take time.


See my post above RE: friends vs. friend-zoned -- this seems to be a blind spot that a lot of women have RE: male terminology and relationships with women. You must be a very nice person who does not lead people on or use them -- unfortunately, not everyone is like you, as many of us learn the hard way (of either gender).


Thank you.


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08 Jul 2010, 4:00 pm

Janissy wrote:
Is sex the necessary price any woman must pay for a man's company or else she's using him?


Bolded for emphasis.
I think some guys need to adjust their attitude.

If I am friends with a guy and get ditched if I don't want to have sex with them I will be really rather upset.



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08 Jul 2010, 4:05 pm

billsmithglendale wrote:
What we men mean by "friend-zoned" is being on the list of people a certain woman will never sleep with or consider a relationship with, yet will feel free to impinge on their free time, emotionally manipulate (in certain cases), and generally use as an emotional crutch, punching bag, or fake boyfriend to boost their value.


All this post said to me is you don't know squat. You're using a couple of things that happened to you and basing it on the entire population.



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08 Jul 2010, 4:09 pm

hale_bopp wrote:
Janissy wrote:
Is sex the necessary price any woman must pay for a man's company or else she's using him?


Bolded for emphasis.
I think some guys need to adjust their attitude.

If I am friends with a guy and get ditched if I don't want to have sex with them I will be really rather upset.


I agree. Also a woman may seem to friend zone someone because she wants to get to know him better. If she sleeps with him right away, then she's a slut, right? Is that how it works,guys? :?