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AceOfSpades
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13 Jun 2011, 2:11 pm

Garath wrote:

AceOfSpades wrote:

Garath wrote:

The problem with the OP to my mind is that it's not actual advice. Atleast when I ask guys i get an honest down-to-earth answer on how to do things differently, although most of the time i'm not even sure i can understand how to enact that advice to a specific situation, but this generalised "treat her like a person, get to know her"-stuff is to my mind what i've been doing my entire f***ing life to no avail.
So where does one go for advice on how to make women actually respond to you? I'm a decent looking, intelligent, perfectly nice guy who is the opposite of those bastards who can just pick up any woman they want. and honestly, no matter how much i think about it, I can't figure it out beyond it simply being some sort of god-given intuition on how to make women cream. Either that or i'm far uglier than I think i am.

And please, to all saying the whole "don't generalize". That's fair enough, I get that we're all individuals. But we're also animals with an animal-brain, and what I see out there is that some guys are hugely succesful with pretty much any type of girl while others have no success with any type of girl. Now it's pretty hard not to think there's a generalized answer to why this is happening.

And really, maybe that's why we ask guys? Because girls say "every girl is unique, there's no single key" or give out some generalized "treat her like a person"-bullshit that any idiot can figure out and which gets him nowhere. In fact, mostly when I compare myself to the guys I know who get somewhere with women, it seems that me thinking they're people is what's setting us apart. Because to the guy who's all the happy to lie to get her panties off or the guy who goes from girl to girl until he gets lucky, with no sense of remorse when he gets the "no", well to my mind, they are NOT treating them like people.

At the bottom line all we want is some simple actual advice on how to get somewhere with women, because it's lonely, sexually frustrating and just plain horrible to face rejection 20/20, and the OP is anything but that i'm afraid.

Yes it is actual advice, you're just dismissing it. What a girl prefers in a man has nothing to do with her caving in to her animalistic desires and abandoning all her principles. It is mostly a conscious choice. Is it any surprise that chicks who appeal to douchebags are either just as narcisssistic or have a dependent personality?

There is no single key, cuz you can't expect any type of advice to make a chick to fall from the sky and land on your dick. One piece of advice isn't going to make everything conveniently fall in place. Hell, advice doesn't even have to be a solution. It can simply be something that keeps you on the right track.

Also, what type of chicks are you seeking anyways? If you're seeking bimbos, then you are not going to click with em unless you are just as shallow.

Here's one piece of advice from me, man to man: Listen. You can take her word for it when it comes to what women want as long as she's not a hypocrite.

hyperlexian wrote:

"simple actual advice" doesn't help as it is too generalized.... otherwise nobody would be complaining right now. it doesn't work to just throw out randome advice that isn't person-specific or situation-specific. it works better to get to know a certain person, and figure out how to connect with that actual person, as opposed to trying to get any girlfriend or have random women respond to you.

also, there is a difference between wanting to "get with" women and wanting to have an actual girlfriend. if you want to use the same techniques as men like those ones you know, who lie to get girls' panties off, then you sure as heck don't want to hear decent advice from the women here. we are not going to give you any tips for that. if you want to behave like a decent ethical person, then i suggest you ignore the techniues that those men use. so what if it works for them? they are acting like a**holes.

Exactly.

And yet, every scientific article i have ever read on the subject, which by now is a fair few, strongly suggests that attraction is in fact not a conscious decision, so all her conscious "I want this and that" gets flushed out with the toilet water when she meets someone she's ACTUALLY attracted to. Ofc i'm gonna get every woman in this place on my back for saying this. Now that's not to say there's gonna throw themselves at him, I like to think that's a conscious decision. But if you can't create the innitial attraction you're never gonna get anywhere and that's what I find myself simply unable to.
And what advice is there really, because I don't see it. Nothing there would tell me what to do differently next time i'm out trying to meet a girl. Talk to her, check. Treat her like a human being, check. Get to know her interests, check. She excuses herself, check.

Are you talking about physical attraction or attraction as in how compatible people are with each other? If you're talking about attraction as in compatibility, then what scientific article supports the notion that women in general are attracted to "Alpha males"? And what exactly is an Alpha male to you? A douchebag who has the emotional maturity of a child, or a calm, collected and independent man?

Last edited by AceOfSpades on 13 Jun 2011, 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

hyperlexian
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13 Jun 2011, 2:14 pm

Afr0 wrote:

Quote:

also, there is a difference between wanting to "get with" women and wanting to have an actual girlfriend. if you want to use the same techniques as men like those ones you know, who lie to get girls' panties off, then you sure as heck don't want to hear decent advice from the women here. we are not going to give you any tips for that. if you want to behave like a decent ethical person, then i suggest you ignore the techniues that those men use. so what if it works for them? they are acting like a**holes.

This may be a cultural thing, but I've noticed that when women are asked about dating advice, 80% of the time they will start to give out old-fashioned, 50s style dating advice such as 'get to know her, give her a hug, be nice'.
The interesting thing about this is that in reality, this doesn't actually work. My experience (mostly based on observation of how my friends and aquaintances have done it) is that most women won't actually 'commit' to a relationship until they've had sex. Once they've had sex though, a lot of women feel like they've 'given out' and almost always automatically expect a commitment.
Thus, some men (the ones who know how (a.k.a 'the alpha male')) are left with tons of sex because women assume it will make them commit. The rest of the men are given a chance at a date or three, maybe some kisses, until the woman eventually decides that she doesn't want him anyways, so he's dumped.
In other words... people (women in particular) should be less afraid to practice safe sex, don't get upset if they're not 'chosen' after a sexual encounter, and be more frank in letting other people know what they actually want. Even though women seem to claim so, there isn't actually much of a difference between 'getting with' a woman and actually dating her. The difference lies in the time spent and the commitment invested.

many old-fashioned ideas DO work, and if you ask how people met their significant other you will see it is the case. your examples - hugging a woman, getting to know her, and being nice - are not even old-fashioned... they are examples of being a decent friend, and if a man did not do those things a woman may be reluctant to have anything to do with him (with good reason! unless there are sensory issues around hugging).

what you seem to be suggesting is that women should 'put out' more and accept that most of the time they won't get anything out of it... that seems a bit off-balance, and centered on male desires. practical tip: women are far more like to orgasm with men they are comfortable with - after they are in a real relationship. so casual sex is often physically unsatisfying for women... so most of them really do get very little out of it. in this case many women would become a sex toy for a man and be both emotionally AND physically unsatisfied afterward. that's a raw deal.

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Jonsi
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13 Jun 2011, 2:22 pm

Fnord wrote:

Jonsi wrote:

I must say though, most women I've met/dated do not go for mean guys...

Key phrase: "... most women I've met...", which implies a very small sample of the general female population.

Jonsi wrote:

... and get extremely annoyed with mind games...

... unless they are the ones playing them, OR they are playing them on an unresponsive Aspie.

Just statin' my experiences. Not stating facts. If they're not normal, they're not normal. That's just what I've experienced. Do I need to make it clearer. :\

Last edited by Jonsi on 13 Jun 2011, 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

hyperlexian
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13 Jun 2011, 2:25 pm

Garath wrote:

we didn't talk about initial attraction at all, so i am not sure where you are going with that. theer was advice in the OP (which you can agree or disagree with), and there are hundreds of threads of advice in this subforum.

if you want specific advice as to how to change your approach, you can try asking for advice on a thread of your own, but we would be hard-pressed to personalize it as much as a person who knows you in real life could do. it'll be more effective to talk to friends and ask them for brutal honesty and a real critique.

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Sallamandrina
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13 Jun 2011, 2:46 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:

To Whome It May Concern,

Don't listen to generalized advice. Treat everyone you come across as a unique individual and if you wish to get closer to a particular one... get to know them and what they like.

Also, please stop trying to speak for an entire gender. It makes you look like a jackass.

Sincerely,
TeaEarlGreyHot

A hundred times this.

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cdfox7
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13 Jun 2011, 2:51 pm

Dear theygoMex, I am confused if your OP is advice or ventting? Was it Dear PUA or dear f**k face? You alone made generations of a specific area of human relationships. Plus from the feel of reading your OP I get the feeling that you have past issues that specificity need addressing

TheygoMew wrote:

It's painfully obvious you don't understand women yet you go to other men to ask how to pick up women or deal with women in general.

Do women go to another women for advice about men, now?

TheygoMew wrote:

Are you too afraid to ask women?
I've also noticed that when men do ask women on how they want to be treated or how to go about it, what the woman says is quickly disregarded and the man retorts with ...No all women want jerks!

Do you communicate with men about what you what and about how you what to be treated?

TheygoMew wrote:

You have to be mean to women! You have to play mindgames with them!

Some women can mean some of the time now! All human begins can sometimes play mindgames, you know!

TheygoMew wrote:

The problem is men have decided that the positive male attributes that alot of women find desirable are shoved into the category as jerk and twisted to suit that negative male's mind to keep him in a perpetual loop of false security.

Specific which men decided that then? Do women have a negative mind set at times now? Do women behave like jerks, now?

TheygoMew wrote:

That man with the false security blanket does not understand that underneath his blanket are also false security shackles and handcuffs that only women have the key too. He keeps asking the men for the keys. Then men instead inject him with lies and don't have the key.

Specific which man? Do women have false security blankets? Do women inject other woman with the truth all the time then?

TheygoMew wrote:

It's like how neurotypicals attempt to explain autism but when they explain autism all that comes out is their own perception with no real inside information. If someone with autism that can speak or type tells the person that they are not accurate about this information the neurotypical gets defensive and tries to belittle the person who actually has autism and knows how it feels.

We're getting your perception now of this issue now, aren't we?

TheygoMew wrote:

I am not that ambassador of all women but I can tell you that MIND GAMES suck! If you wish to hurt someone and torment them than go right ahead with the mind games. It just shows that there is a problem with you that if you don't recognize it, you'll never feel free.

You are the ambassador of you like I am the ambassador of myself!! Do women somtimes hurt and torment?

TheygoMew wrote:

Mind games don't work well on all women because we're not ALL the same. Just like not all men are the same. Some women are easily misled while other women are thinking "who does this prick think he is?"

All human begins are not all the same at all the time, please remember that fact! Now are some men easily misled. Do some men think of woman "who done this b***h think she is?"

TheygoMew wrote:

Some women who've had to deal with torment their entire existence are thinking you are just another cruel jerk tossed into their life and want you as far away as possible.

Men deal with torment as well, you know?

TheygoMew wrote:

Pick up artists get hundreds of rejections before they get their "YES" the thing is their ego automatically omits the word NO so they go on to brag about their "score".

Is this specificity the issue you have, if it is please give specific details into that issue

TheygoMew wrote:

Women know more about this than men do because they have been on the receiving end of it so have more experience in what worked for them vs. what did not.

Specificity on the receiving end of what?

TheygoMew wrote:

First of all, you do NOT want to be the evil scientist man who wishes to play the hot and cold game, flirt with this woman's friends or indirectly trying to unlock the code of if she likes you or not before making your move. You'll just drag it on forever and eventually hurt her. Then she will forever dismiss any man that reminds her of you as a jerk.

Do women play hot and cold now?

TheygoMew wrote:

It's okay to give space. It's a break so the other person can digest the event properly. If you don't give space and call too much or email or talk every single day, the person will feel you are a danger to them and could be a stalker. After a few days of a break, if she isn't starting conversation with you, start it with her.

Women can be stalkers as all you know!

TheygoMew wrote:

From there just be your quirky self but don't turn it into a negative. Turn it into a positive.

I agree with that please remember this with all relationships in life with other people the key person that has control of there thoughts, behaviour and emotions is yourself! I get the feeling you need to reframe your negativity to positivity. Self reframing is alchemy and magic at its best :wink:

TheygoMew wrote:

The truth is, men should stop just looking for ANY woman to just merely have sex with. Men like women are better off with those they can connect with and bond on a mutual level. Otherwise you get happy that you finally got laid and marry the one who you don't have a strong connection with but at least she didn't say no! You get married or long term girlfriend only to find that you've met someone you actually did feel a real connection with but you are bound by this other person out of convenience at that time.

Do some women look for short term relationships? Now, do some woman just look to have sex with men and/or other women?

Sallamandrina
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13 Jun 2011, 2:54 pm

hyperlexian wrote:

we didn't talk about initial attraction at all, so i am not sure where you are going with that.

I was wondering the same thing - anybody who goes for anything else but just sex solely or primarily based on initial/physical attraction will end up in a heap of trouble. Which, bluntly put they've earned.

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cdfox7
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13 Jun 2011, 4:37 pm

<< This wizard is now in the mood to work my magic

Its now time to cast a few linguistical transformation spells :wink:
To note, my traceformations some of them will be in bold type.

TheygoMew wrote:

See, the usual predictable responses.

Hell yer, we been seeing things from your view of your own map.
Alford Korzybski once said that the map is not the territory.

TheygoMew wrote:

Alright if all women like jerks then all men like b*****s.

Oh cause and effect with universal quantification!

alright then lets change that to this
If some women sometimes like some men who behave like jerks,
then some men sometimes like some women who behave like b*****s.

TheygoMew wrote:

All men only want the following:

1. Blonde
2. Big tits
3. Nice butt
4. Vagina
5. Nice Figure

Some men are sometimes physically attracted to women.

TheygoMew wrote:

Men want gold diggers but claim to hate gold diggers.

What are you hiding with your butt now! Oh yes thats it
Some men are attracted to some women who are more interested in that man's money.
Now do some men sometimes like or dislike some women who are more interested in money?

TheygoMew wrote:

Men are shallow and don't care for intelligent women, they just want b*****s.

I don't imagine that you been giving us pink elephants in your thread now!
Plus I know your not thinking about pink elephants right now as you read this :wink:

How specificity do you measure one man's depth now? What is the best measurement then?
Some men may be intellectual and some may be not intellectual.
Some men are attracted to intelligent women and some are not.

The literally meaning of the word b***h is the name of a female dog!! !

TheygoMew wrote:

Okay so now that you read that, what does it seem like I am really trying to say about men?

Here is an simple scientific experiment might what you have a go at doing.
Take one cup and put that same cup on a table.
NOW Try and pick up that cup off the table with your right hand!
You will find that the cup is in your right hand or still on the table.

So really this what is saying this what your saying now:
Okay so now that you read that and viewed it in your perception of life experiences,
this is what am really saying about men in general now based on my own life experiences.

TheygoMew wrote:

Now if I were like some of the men who claim all women want jerks, I would counter with the typical response when a man says "That's not accurate." I would say, All men want b*****s!"

mmm... let me ask you this question do some or all women like jerky now?
Another question Do some men or all men like female dogs now?

Last edited by cdfox7 on 13 Jun 2011, 7:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Garath
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13 Jun 2011, 7:05 pm

hyperlexian wrote:

Garath wrote:

Well, I have two camps of "friends". The group i already mentioned is not so much friends as people I game with, but well you're already familiar with how they see my problems solved. The second group observes pretty much what I do, that even if a girl reacts to my innitial approach she'll go hot - > cold in like 2 minutes just from being around me. My friends say the girls don't feel "chemistry" with me and are somehow unable to explain what on god's green earth that is and more importantly what it is about me that simply doesn't make this happen. So i'm left with a pat on the back and a "be patient, you'll find the right girl someday" whispered into my ear as they go home in couples or with some new flame.

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RainingRoses
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13 Jun 2011, 7:11 pm

TheygoMew wrote:

It's painfully obvious you don't understand women

True!

TheygoMew wrote:

yet you go to other men to ask how to pick up women or deal with women in general.

False! I've never called an electrician to ask advice on plumbing.

TheygoMew wrote:

Are you too afraid to ask women?

Well ... a little afraid, but not "too afraid." So, I suck it up and do it anyway. I typically get much better advice than what follows in the remainder of your rant.

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Tias
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13 Jun 2011, 7:17 pm

oooooohohohohoooohohohoh......

Yes, way to go, generalize all men, bravo!
you should be awarded a medal for this thread...Maybe even an award!

ChinaCatSunflower
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13 Jun 2011, 7:59 pm

Bopkasen wrote:

Dear Women,

Please don't be picky and accept men that are friendly, gentlemen, and has made an effort to be a knight in shiny armor. You only going to lose 50% if you get marry any way. You have a better chance with my description.

If you don't say anything, we can't hear you. We are an excellent listener without making sounds. Please follow our eyes and you will know if we are listening.

If we ask for a date, please says yes or explain why not. If no come with no explaination, we will move on. If you want a date and we compliment your hair, how about suggest going to some cafe that offer burger, fries, and drink to get the ball rolling?

Men can be fustrated too and can carelessly hurt feeling but if we are stubborn and help you. Please accept our help to amend what was done.

P.S. If you are going to break up, please be a woman enough to tell.

Sincerely,

Men

And please stop treating every single one of us like we are rapists too.

hyperlexian
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13 Jun 2011, 8:03 pm

Garath wrote:

hyperlexian wrote:

Garath wrote:

well, it sounds like they are not being completely honest with you. they are telling you what they think you want to hear. but i don't think most people would want to hear the truth anyways, though they protest otherwise. you see that here on WP, where 7 different members will point out an exact flaw that is leading to dating difficulties, yet the original poster insists it is a problem with the rest of the world.

i think in many cases it would be hard for someone's friends to provide truths that could destroy a friendship and that a person might not really take to heart anyways.

someone should go into business giving personalized tips to people who are on the dating market. actually... i am sure such a thing already exists.

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hyperlexian
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13 Jun 2011, 8:16 pm

ChinaCatSunflower wrote:

And please stop treating every single one of us like we are rapists too.

women have a right and responsibility to themselves to be cautious and careful. maybe stop approaching women in that manner as you described elsewhere if you are feeling like they are treating you like a rapist. here is some background information as to why women may be so careful around men:

Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network wrote:

1 out of every 6 American women has been the victim of an attempted or completed rape in her lifetime (14.8% completed rape; 2.8% attempted rape).

(link)

Wikipedia: Rape statistics wrote:

U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (1999) estimated that 91% of rape victims are female and 9% are male, with 99% of the offenders being male.

(link)

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MCalavera
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13 Jun 2011, 8:18 pm

Garath wrote:

Best advice is read up on the "alpha male" attitude and mindset and understand how/why masculine men naturally and subconsciously adopt it.

If you have this knowledge, and you end up accepting it, then you've already made a big long step because by accepting, you subconsciously start to apply it in your life. From there, it will be all up to what you desire in life.

cdfox7
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13 Jun 2011, 8:23 pm

hyperlexian wrote:

someone should go into business giving personalized tips to people who are on the dating market. actually... i am sure such a thing already exists.

yep it exists hun its called dating coaching...lol IHMO life coaching is more fun as relationships are only one part of the work life balance, I like to look at all the parts of the whole now, am a holistic and a Gestalt in heart and in approach now :lol:

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