NT-ish woman, totally taken with Aspie guy...

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This is all true. However, it does not change the fact that society still judges a man on his level of wealth. Just as attitudes toward women have changed over the last 50 years or so, so do attitudes about men and men's role in society need to change. Until then, one cannot blame a man with little money for feeling self-conscious about it.

How about I point out that not just AS, but almost ALL men, would LOVE it if women asked them out. DIRECTLY. It is the 21st century; hell, I'd advise a direct ask-out even to a NT man.

I agree but it is also a tough situation for the OP.She is considering all of the variables before taking the plunge .Obviously no one likes to get rejected so the OP is looking for signs that he is interested which can be difficult to find when dealing with someone with AS .

You're absolutely right, but it's more complicated than that. I'm more worried about his feelings. Most of my relationships just sort of happened. There was no assumption that if I hung out with a guy, it would become something romantic. Sometimes it did, sometimes it didn't. I'd like the chance to get to know this guy better before deciding if I want to have a relationship, but it's pretty clear that I will need a LOT of time with him before he lets his guard down, if he is even capable of or willing to let down his guard down. Hell, maybe he doesn't even have a guard. Maybe what I see now is all I would ever get. It would take time to figure all of that out, and at some point he's likely to assume that he's been "friend-zoned" as you guys say. It's complicated. We shall see.

I absolutely understand this. My complaint was with the phase 'independent woman routine,' which was dismissive and glib. My independence is not a song and dance routine. I've been working and supporting myself since I was 15. I also took issue with someone who, earlier in the thread, assumed I was looking for a bread winner. I'm not, but I do understand that many men will feel that it's expected of them. I also understand that men who aren't in the position of being provider often feel insecure about it. I'm not in the business of emasculating men OR trying to force a timid man into being more "successful" in the eyes of the world. I just like this guy. I like him the way he is.

"It's complicated": the English phrase commonly used in place of "It's simple, but I don't have the courage to get into it".

Me with my sharp tongue, again, I'm sure. But, the truth it is.

"It's complicated" is one of the great BS phrases. It's up there with the good stuff like "closure" and "post-traumatic stress" and "I think of you more as a friend" and "Vote for me and I'll shake up the Washington establishment".

He might not feel the same way as you do.I mean when you suggest you want to get to know him better before deciding that you want a relationship with him . Most people know very quickly if they are attracted to someone and would want to date them.I know that doesn't mean a full blown relationship necessarily happens but he may not want to waste time with someone who just wants to be his friend.Perhaps you are trying to play it safe and that is understandable ,you don't want to get rejected but how you approach this situation will tell him how you feel about him.That is ,if you aren't up front with your romantic interest and just suggest that you two hang out he may approach it as friendship .

If he is like me he will never let his guard down unless he is positive that you have a romantic interest in him .He may be protecting himself emotionally because he is unsure about your feelings towards him.Just out of curiousity do you know if he has asked out any other women lately? As others have mentioned all forms of subtle flirting are likely going to be missed by him .If you want this to happen [and the title of your thread ''NT ish woman ,totally taken with Apie guy'' suggests that you really want it to] you should make the first move .

Can we agree that complicated/ simple are reversed for aspies/enties?

Nope. Your situation is not complicated.

You're trying to negotiate the terms of the discussion rather than confront the evidence. The intent is to ensure your retreat from the discussion in a manner than insulates your ego from the simple fact that none of this is complicated.

If you want to solve your problem, drop the claims of complication and steer into the problem. Otherwise, you're doing nothing but installing a thick layer of emotional insulation between your ego and the problem.

It's OK. Human nature requires that we insulate our egos. What's worse, especially for we aspies who don't have any connection to this behavior, is that NTs tend to require the friendly folks around them to then validate this insulated reality. It's one of the primary reasons aspies aren't good at making friends -- we don't sense when an NT is shrinking from a problem and is signaling a need for emotional support over a need for problem solving.

That's a very insightful statement.

I have been chastized more than once for calmly trying to solve a problem instead of running around screaming or crying or hugging or whatever the Hell else NTs expect you to do in those situations.

Of all the things I wish I could fix in NTs, the individual desire to demand that the group conform to an irrational, emotional act of stupidity for the sake of personal comfort is by far the one I want to form a fund, do research and take a scalpel and chop right out out of their f*****g brains.

I took a year and experimented with friends and family by supplying the expected emotional response as a means of steering NTs toward more positive problem-solving. It didn't work. Once a NT has disengaged from a problem, they will justify their disengagement relentlessly and without regard to the emerging contradictions.

Put simply, in NTs the underlying psychological need to protect the ego overrides all other imperatives. I suspect this largely explains religion and politics -- especially the old axiom that you never discuss them.

EDIT [ADDED]: I was thinking about this and a particular thought crossed my mind. As an aspie who is trying to solve a problem while a NT wants comfort, I think I understand how a cat feels when it drops a freshly killed bunny on the doorstep only to watch their master freak out and slam the door.

I never said that I wasn't going to keep trying, but it is complicated. It's complicated by the fact that I don't know how he will respond, and that approaching him directly might distress him as you have pointed out yourself. I see him at his workplace. It's complicated by the fact that I don't.know him, and there's no way of getting to know him without making the overture that I want to get to know him and in doing so possibly giving him the impression that I either want a relationship, or that I want a friendship, when I can't possible know that without knowing him, if I want either. And it's complicated by the simple fact that none of this would be an issue if I were able to speak his language or he mine.

Again, I never said it was a lost cause, and I certainly never asked for or expected rounds of "there, there"/ tea and sympathy. You've taken this way off the subject for the sake of feeding a tangent that has nothing to do with me or this conversation.

All of which is simple. You just don't like the risks involved.

Saying "it's complicated" when what you really mean is "I'm risk averse" is insulating yourself from the problem.



To be blunt, I don't buy what you just said. You're quick to repeatedly signal a need for me to accept your perception rather than contemplating what I am suggesting. You're using a rational argument to direct rational people away from pointing out an emotional failure. While it's certainly excellent framing and messaging, it's still just emotional insulation.

I'm sorry, but bridging the NT-aspie language gap is no different than bridging any other language gap. You make an honest effort and you expect to fail. Repeatedly. Even brutally. Human beings, NT or aspie, respect the effort to overcome a divide. All human being enjoy it when others take a sincere interest in them. Even if they fail miserably.

We all fear f*****g our lives. We all fear f*****g up other people's lives. But, the brutal truth of the matter is we are going to f**k up. A lot. You're going to f**k up your relationships and eventually end up in a f****d up marriage where you and your partner will proceed to f**k up your kids lives. And they'll f**k up your life.

What compels me to move forward is a brutal truth: the finality of death.

You're a mutant ape who is the product of innumerable generations f*****g up within the tolerances of evolutionary success and survival. Suck it up, face the problem and f**k up just stupidly as your ancestors did. That or find a monastery . . . which you will also proceed to f**k up.

There is no magic trick that will allow you to thread the needle here.

So can we unpack this? When you don't buy what I say, it's because you know better, but when I don't buy what you say, I'm signalling a need for your validation of my faulty perception. Funny how that works.

Anyway, as comforting as the finality of death may be, most people do what they can to limit how much they f*** up their lives and those of others. There's nothing cowardly about trying to seek a solution that will work, in favor of reckless abandon.

Last edited by Fullofstars on 07 Oct 2011, 1:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

And buddy if you had any idea how much I've shredded through this life of mine with my eyes shut and a sh** eating grin on my face... Ha. Looking before leaping doesn't come naturally to me. That's what I have to suck up and accept.