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Ladder Theory for men.

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hyperlexian
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01 Nov 2011, 10:23 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
lol BOTH men and women often fall for people who they consider to be inspiringly better than themselves in some way, especially in terms of character.



Hmm....not sure about the 'both' part.

?

care to elaborate or are you just randomly questioning the point with no substantial comment?


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The_Face_of_Boo
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01 Nov 2011, 10:38 am

^Maybe women in lebanon tend to be less career-ambitious than women in Canada, and maybe more marrying up tendency , but that doesn't mean that marrying up doesn't exist elsewhere. Besides I think Canada is an exception too, too liberal...even more than the US and half of Europe. I think we are comparing two extremes here.


Anyways, here a study with the data to check:

http://www.landofangels.de/py1/buss-barnes-1986.pdf

quoted:

Sex Differences in Mate Selection Preferences
To examine sex differences, we computed t tests for each of
the 76 items. In relation to men, the women in this sample tended
to prefer the following spouse characteristics: considerate, honest,
dependable, kind, understanding, fond of children, well-liked by
others, good earning capacity, ambitious and career-oriented,
good family background, and tall (all ps < .01, two-tailed). In
contrast, men in this sample tended to prefer more than did
women the following spouse characteristics: physically attractive,
good looking, good cook, and frugal (all ps < .01, two-tailed).




Of course, that study doesn't improve who marry up who, but it may explains why A tend to marry up more than B.



Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 01 Nov 2011, 10:43 am, edited 2 times in total.

The_Face_of_Boo
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01 Nov 2011, 10:39 am

hyperlexian wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
lol BOTH men and women often fall for people who they consider to be inspiringly better than themselves in some way, especially in terms of character.



Hmm....not sure about the 'both' part.

?

care to elaborate or are you just randomly questioning the point with no substantial comment?


nah, after giving a second thought, I think you're right, both tend to do that...except the narcissists.



hyperlexian
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01 Nov 2011, 10:53 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
^Maybe women in lebanon tend to be less career-ambitious than women in Canada, and maybe more marrying up tendency , but that doesn't mean that marrying up doesn't exist elsewhere. Besides I think Canada is an exception too, too liberal...even more than the US and half of Europe. I think we are comparing two extremes here.


Anyways, here a study with the data to check:

http://www.landofangels.de/py1/buss-barnes-1986.pdf

quoted:

Sex Differences in Mate Selection Preferences
To examine sex differences, we computed t tests for each of
the 76 items. In relation to men, the women in this sample tended
to prefer the following spouse characteristics: considerate, honest,
dependable, kind, understanding, fond of children, well-liked by
others, good earning capacity, ambitious and career-oriented,
good family background, and tall (all ps < .01, two-tailed). In
contrast, men in this sample tended to prefer more than did
women the following spouse characteristics: physically attractive,
good looking, good cook, and frugal (all ps < .01, two-tailed).




Of course, that study doesn't improve who marry up who, but it may explains why A tend to marry up more than B.

it seems that given the data above, men would also be "marrying-up" but with different criteria - attractiveness.

alternately, it could also make a case for men "marrying-down" in terms of finances, with the addition of frugality and cooking skills as mate selection criteria (women as housewives).

have you seen a more recent study that talks about mate selection processes? the one you linked is an entire generation out of date.


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Surfman
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01 Nov 2011, 1:46 pm

You may as well marry a rich dick of a man instead of a poor dick of a man. Society programs men towards being dicks, and women to seek a rich one.....

But given the choice, most women will marry for love. Its just in very short supply, only a few have it

Even women who want genuine love, may not have it in their heart to give, anymore, made cynical by everything around them.....

Its called corruption of the spirit, you can see it here at times 8O

Raise your stock of love and positive energy and attract a good woman.



zen_mistress
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01 Nov 2011, 1:50 pm

lilypadfad wrote:
she _must_ believe her man is better than her in one way or another.


You are so wrong about that. Women looking for healthy relationships seek an equal. Women looking for abusive relationships seek men they perceive to be superior to them.


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biostructure
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02 Nov 2011, 12:57 am

hyperlexian wrote:
it seems that given the data above, men would also be "marrying-up" but with different criteria - attractiveness.

alternately, it could also make a case for men "marrying-down" in terms of finances, with the addition of frugality and cooking skills as mate selection criteria (women as housewives).


Very true. I don't know how much frugality and cooking skills matter anymore, though I'd think that general "caretaking skills" still are important.

And about the men "marrying up" in terms of attractiveness, I think the big issue is that the attractiveness "baselines" are quite different between the sexes.

In a practical sense, this is evident in the fact that most women could sell their bodies if they chose to, whereas only a small number of men can. In a more abstract sense, it's difficult for an average man to "out-pretty" even a mediocre woman. I know that some women claim to find the male body as aesthetically pleasing as men find the female body, but I highly doubt this is so, except in regards to a very small number of males (a subset which may be slightly different for each woman).

Thus, it often seems like just seeking a woman, per se, is "up" in terms of attractiveness, or at least the market value of that attractiveness, even if it's a relatively good looking man and a relatively plain woman.



ntgfinlove
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03 Nov 2011, 10:09 pm

zen_mistress wrote:
I cannot help but think that the people who are actually out there getting laid are not sitting on their laptops writing complicated theories involving ladders, cobblestones, garden hoses, spirit levels etc.


I second this emotion. Its such a convoluted ladder. I'd need to take notes to understand it!



hyperlexian
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03 Nov 2011, 10:22 pm

biostructure wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
it seems that given the data above, men would also be "marrying-up" but with different criteria - attractiveness.

alternately, it could also make a case for men "marrying-down" in terms of finances, with the addition of frugality and cooking skills as mate selection criteria (women as housewives).


Very true. I don't know how much frugality and cooking skills matter anymore, though I'd think that general "caretaking skills" still are important.

And about the men "marrying up" in terms of attractiveness, I think the big issue is that the attractiveness "baselines" are quite different between the sexes.

In a practical sense, this is evident in the fact that most women could sell their bodies if they chose to, whereas only a small number of men can. In a more abstract sense, it's difficult for an average man to "out-pretty" even a mediocre woman. I know that some women claim to find the male body as aesthetically pleasing as men find the female body, but I highly doubt this is so, except in regards to a very small number of males (a subset which may be slightly different for each woman).

Thus, it often seems like just seeking a woman, per se, is "up" in terms of attractiveness, or at least the market value of that attractiveness, even if it's a relatively good looking man and a relatively plain woman.

what i meant by "marrying up" is that some men go after the hottest woman they can find, even if she is far above his league. i don't buy into leagues myself, but it's a way of interpreting the results of the study.

i don't think men are less good-looking than women, i just think that some women are less visually oriented so on a social/cultural level, there just isn't as much focus placed on the way men look. but that doesn't mean that men are not pretty. ask homosexual men whether men or women are better looking, and i think the majority would likely say men.

there isn't an objective way to measure male vs. female beauty. focus isn't placed on female beauty because women are better looking to start with - it's just what some men seem to orient towards.

prostitution has nothing to do with female beauty and everything to do with the customers. the customers are almost 100% male, and mostly straight. if men wanted to become gay prostitutes, they surely could do so.


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Shebakoby
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04 Nov 2011, 1:41 am

I have never seen this ladder. Not in practice anyway



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07 Nov 2011, 3:41 pm

I think that there are actually FOUR ladders for me, if you want to insist on ladders:

1. Women I want to get in relationships with (reasonably attractive and, more importantly, compatible)
2. Women I want to have sex with, but not get in relationships with (beautiful but incompatible, my convictions stop me from actually doing it)
3. Women I want to be friends with, but not have sex with. This one is missing from the OP's theory. Compatible but ugly women, those who are married, and family members fall into this category.
4. Women I want neither sex nor friendship with. They're either so incompatible that no amount of sex would be worth it, or else ugly and have shown no reason for me to be friends with them.


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07 Nov 2011, 4:16 pm

Life is a game of snakes and ladders

Roll the dice players



zen_mistress
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07 Nov 2011, 7:33 pm

Shebakoby wrote:
I have never seen this ladder. Not in practice anyway


I have seen a ladder. There is one outside. I am looking at it right now. It is a tall metal stepladder.


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Marcia
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07 Nov 2011, 8:29 pm

zen_mistress wrote:
Shebakoby wrote:
I have never seen this ladder. Not in practice anyway


I have seen a ladder. There is one outside. I am looking at it right now. It is a tall metal stepladder.


I have two ladders in my garage. The tall metal one is mine, I have no idea where the short wooden one came from or who it belongs to.

I've read through this whole thread, and it reminded me that I need to buy a spirit level.



zen_mistress
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07 Nov 2011, 8:44 pm

I wish we had a wooden ladder! There are just 2 metal ones...

I have always found spirit levels fascinating. I like the fluro liquid and bubbles in it.....


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Marcia
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07 Nov 2011, 8:48 pm

zen_mistress wrote:
I wish we had a wooden ladder! There are just 2 metal ones...

I have always found spirit levels fascinating. I like the fluro liquid and bubbles in it.....


I'd give you the wooden ladder I have, but it's wobbly and held together with string. 8O

I can't remember why I need to buy a spirit level, but if I get one I'll be ready if and when I do remember why it is that I need one. And while I'm waiting for my memory to catch up with my purchase, I can admire it! :D