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zen_mistress
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03 Nov 2011, 4:02 am

Grisha wrote:
zen_mistress wrote:
BTW Grisha, who is the cute guy in your avatar?


Mark E Smith from Manchester's legendary band The Fall


I see. Yeah tall skinny guys are one of the type I go for...

One of them, anyway. I have a few types.


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Grisha
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03 Nov 2011, 6:04 am

zen_mistress wrote:
I see. Yeah tall skinny guys are one of the type I go for...


Bless you, my dear! :wink:



Burzum
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03 Nov 2011, 6:42 am

Why are you all confusing narcissism with histrionic personality disorder? Attention seeking is not a necessary trait of someone that is narcissistic.



MXH
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03 Nov 2011, 8:15 am

Grisha wrote:
OneStepBeyond wrote:
i can only work out one of the people. annoying thread


I can never work these things out - am I out of the loop or what? :roll:


same here. Not even cause I likely know aabout the things can i link them up

back on topic, Im not sure what the characteristics of a narcissist are from real life as ive never had the experience with one. But from what I know i can see how it may feel more like extreme confidence at first before realizing tat its just looking down at everyone else.



RightGalaxy
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03 Nov 2011, 8:42 am

thedaywalker wrote:
i think that people that are more atractive are more likely to be narcecistic.


I have to disagree! Some narcissists that I have known were as ugly as a piece of crap sitting in the middle of a formal dinner table. It was impossible to convince them of that FACT. True narcissists are parasitic. They need hosts. For example, as in prostitution, there are no prostitutes if there are no johns. It's supply and demand. Like a gigolo. He can be a gigolo because women are always chasing him. Sure, he tells them all the same BS but why do they listen to it? Because they want to. They WANT to believe they are the only one...that they've tamed the flamboyant narcissist. Once I watched an old movie called "The Rose Tattoo" where someone's filandering husband was refered to by his lover as being "wild as a gypsy". So, this other character in the movie says that a woman should never encourage a man to be wild. So, the lover says, "What kind of woman would want a man who is tame!?" It's an old classic but really good!! The lover really was a F'n nut. Remember something: Imbalanced people go after those who hurt them. If the majority of women in this world prefer narcissists, that's a VERY bad sign. So, find a mate in the minority.



RightGalaxy
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03 Nov 2011, 9:01 am

Burzum wrote:
Why are you all confusing narcissism with histrionic personality disorder? Attention seeking is not a necessary trait of someone that is narcissistic.


But don't they need the attention from others to actually be who they are. If you lock them up in a padded cell, can they act upon their narcisism? They will still be narcissist but they can't act out who they are without others.



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03 Nov 2011, 10:21 am

RightGalaxy wrote:
Burzum wrote:
Why are you all confusing narcissism with histrionic personality disorder? Attention seeking is not a necessary trait of someone that is narcissistic.


But don't they need the attention from others to actually be who they are. If you lock them up in a padded cell, can they act upon their narcisism? They will still be narcissist but they can't act out who they are without others.


Sure they can. They probably believe that do to their obviously 'immensely superior' abilities, that they can somehow just think to burst open the padded cells of the walls with great ferocity. Then due to their obviously perfect charisma, they will simply be able to walk out the front door without resistance because everyone will be frozen at being in the presence of such an awesome creature. :roll:



b9
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03 Nov 2011, 11:01 am

i find that conceited people are difficult to deal with.

i do not have much time for people who are vain because they can not see anything outside of their own "worth".

there is one person who is supposed to be the software administrator of a company i am contracted to, and he is very reticent to follow directions for the stupid and erroneous reason that he thinks he is "above" having to obey someone like me.

on the rare occasions i have to physically go to the office, i have seen him 3 times, and if i see him for a 4th time, i may not be charitable.

i wear grey tracksuit pants and a white tee shirt and old white velcro strap shoes, and i do not smell of perfume etc.

he wafts about in a cloud of stench (expensive male perfume i am told), and he is very fashion conscious. he wears a shiny suit and he has polished black shoes with pointy toes, and his hair is gelled and his phone is always ringing, and he will not listen to me because he thinks he is a caste above me.

well he is useless as far as i am concerned. one of the managers asked me about whether i was happy with this fellows performance, and i said i will tell him in one week.

if i see him for a 4th time and i am similarly unimpressed, he will be looking for another job the next day.

the moral of all this (to me) is that "narcissism" (or the deeply rooted belief in one's superiority and entitlement) is only an illusion of competence, and the confidence it promotes may look valid, but it is not valid.

he will be jobless soon as a result of his inattention to his directives.



Burzum
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03 Nov 2011, 12:05 pm

Hero wrote:
Sure they can. They probably believe that do to their obviously 'immensely superior' abilities, that they can somehow just think to burst open the padded cells of the walls with great ferocity. Then due to their obviously perfect charisma, they will simply be able to walk out the front door without resistance because everyone will be frozen at being in the presence of such an awesome creature. :roll:

You have a strange sense of humour.



swbluto
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03 Nov 2011, 12:18 pm

Burzum wrote:
Hero wrote:
Sure they can. They probably believe that do to their obviously 'immensely superior' abilities, that they can somehow just think to burst open the padded cells of the walls with great ferocity. Then due to their obviously perfect charisma, they will simply be able to walk out the front door without resistance because everyone will be frozen at being in the presence of such an awesome creature. :roll:

You have a strange sense of humour.


Humorous, nonetheless.



zen_mistress
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03 Nov 2011, 1:41 pm

Grisha wrote:
zen_mistress wrote:
I see. Yeah tall skinny guys are one of the type I go for...


Bless you, my dear! :wink:


Thanks < : ) ~ .


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TheygoMew
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03 Nov 2011, 1:45 pm

Oh yes, narcissists are attractive.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9jRDHGabp8[/youtube]



Grisha
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03 Nov 2011, 2:08 pm

TheygoMew wrote:
Oh yes, narcissists are attractive.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9jRDHGabp8[/youtube]


There is absolutely no doubt that Charles Manson is a textbook case of NPD, but I cringed at the slide that said he lacked "empathy" - he was completely devoid of sympathy, but he is probably one of the most empathetic people I have ever become aware of.

In an interview, he described how he gained control of his followers by being able to intuitively grasp their basic motivations and feelings and become the person he needed to be to gain the ability to manipulate them - including killing for him (Charles Manson never actually killed anyone, he wasn't even present when the murders he was convicted of occurred).

I'm a little sensitive about this because of AS people sometimes being described as "uncaring" because of our difficulties with empathy, which is very often confused with sympathy.

The AS people I know are among the most kind and sympathetic people I've ever encountered, even if they have difficulties "reading" people.



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03 Nov 2011, 8:59 pm

There is theory of mind and then there is empathy. Although psychiatry has lumped both as the same they are different.

Autistics have difficulty with theory of mind
Psychopaths and narcissists don't and often use that to manipulate people

Autistics do have compassion and when it's obvious someone is suffering show emotion
Psychopaths and narcissists don't care

When it's made obvious an autistic hurt someone's feelings, the autistic person feels guilt
Psychopaths and narcissists may feign guilt if it will be in their favor but don't really feel guilty.



I think people need to quit stating that we lack empathy and specifically state theory of mind.
Anyone else here have the delayed reaction where it hits later? That is not the same as not having empathy.



The vast majority of people relate empathy with care for others and the actual definition which put simply means

"the ability to understand and share the feelings of another."

http://www.diffen.com/difference/Empathy_vs_Sympathy

Charles Manson did not put himself in his victim's shoes nor could he.

I really wish the lack of theory of mind was not also lumped in with the same lack of empathy narcissists have because it's not. After you meet a narcissist especially if you are different and not easy to sway, you'll see what lack of empathy really is.


http://bpd.about.com/od/glossary/g/empathy.htm

Definition: The ability to understand another person’s circumstances, point of view, thoughts, and feelings. When experiencing empathy, you are able to understand someone else’s internal experiences.

Some psychiatric disorders, including autism, antisocial personality disorder, and narcissistic personality disorder, have been associated with a lack of ability to empathize (or experience empathy).



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03 Nov 2011, 9:08 pm

TheygoMew wrote:
There is theory of mind and then there is empathy. Although psychiatry has lumped both as the same they are different.

Autistics have difficulty with theory of mind
Psychopaths and narcissists don't and often use that to manipulate people

Autistics do have compassion and when it's obvious someone is suffering show emotion
Psychopaths and narcissists don't care

When it's made obvious an autistic hurt someone's feelings, the autistic person feels guilt
Psychopaths and narcissists may feign guilt if it will be in their favor but don't really feel guilty.



I think people need to quit stating that we lack empathy and specifically state theory of mind.
Anyone else here have the delayed reaction where it hits later? That is not the same as not having empathy.



The vast majority of people relate empathy with care for others and the actual definition which put simply means

"the ability to understand and share the feelings of another."

http://www.diffen.com/difference/Empathy_vs_Sympathy

Charles Manson did not put himself in his victim's shoes nor could he.

I really wish the lack of theory of mind was not also lumped in with the same lack of empathy narcissists have because it's not. After you meet a narcissist especially if you are different and not easy to sway, you'll see what lack of empathy really is.


http://bpd.about.com/od/glossary/g/empathy.htm

Definition: The ability to understand another person’s circumstances, point of view, thoughts, and feelings. When experiencing empathy, you are able to understand someone else’s internal experiences.

Some psychiatric disorders, including autism, antisocial personality disorder, and narcissistic personality disorder, have been associated with a lack of ability to empathize (or experience empathy).

awesome post is awesome. i like your explanation.


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Grisha
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03 Nov 2011, 9:10 pm

TheygoMew wrote:
Charles Manson did not put himself in his victim's shoes nor could he.


I totally agree with 100% of what you wrote, but I find the quoted statement difficult to support.

I'm not sure if I would characterize his followers as "victims", but I clearly remember him talking about meeting one of his first "family" members in Helter Skelter

He said he could tell by the way she acted that she had a bad relationship with her father and was looking for someone to replace him, he then described how he became her "father figure" and brought her under his control. She often reported that she believed Manson could "read her mind".

I believe if Manson didn't have these extraordinary powers of empathy he would have just been a criminally inclined loony-toon vagrant.