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Why don't more women make the first move?

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smudge
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29 Feb 2012, 12:42 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:
smudge wrote:
It is extremely rare for me to find a guy who is genuinely interested in the content of what I say. It's frustrating.


I've been rejected by two men in the space of a week, for being "too intellectual", and "too politically-focused".
8O :(


Those were the reasons they gave you? Hmm. I don't think anyone likes to be proved wrong, so maybe he's scared of debating because of that. I think opinionated women can be a bit intimidating to people anyway - they are if they're fuelled by insecurity. I think political arguments can be fuelled by emotions, and men hate drama. I've been rejected enough by men thinking that I was stupid, I think because of my blank expression sometimes. Urgh.



noname_ever
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29 Feb 2012, 12:48 pm

smudge wrote:
ValentineWiggin wrote:
smudge wrote:
It is extremely rare for me to find a guy who is genuinely interested in the content of what I say. It's frustrating.


I've been rejected by two men in the space of a week, for being "too intellectual", and "too politically-focused".
8O :(


Those were the reasons they gave you? Hmm. I don't think anyone likes to be proved wrong, so maybe he's scared of debating because of that. I think opinionated women can be a bit intimidating to people anyway - they are if they're fuelled by insecurity. I think political arguments can be fuelled by emotions, and men hate drama. I've been rejected enough by men thinking that I was stupid, I think because of my blank expression sometimes. Urgh.


Maybe they don't like politics she wouldn't drop the subject. I dislike talking to politcal junkies as well and wouldn't want to be in a relationship with one unless they knew when to drop the conversation. Knowing when to not talk about your special interest is a skill that needs to be learned.



Wolfheart
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29 Feb 2012, 12:50 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
yep - i am extremely forward and i have had a lot of rejection for a few different reasons, but one major reason is because many men simply do not want a woman to be that aggressive (they have said so, in various ways).

the fact is, if they wanted me in most cases they probably would have asked already, so if i turn the tables i am putting them in an awkward position. men don't want just ANY women asking them out, they want CERTAIN women asking them out.

anyways, culturally, men are expected to be aggressors and women are expected to be more passive. when those roles are reversed, it seems to make the majority of people of both genders feel uncomfortable.


I have noticed that females are more forward and outward in groups, I have had groups of women come up to me and randomly start talking to me more so than I have been approached by women when they are alone which is very interesting, I have ignored girls before because I have been in shutdown mode, not because of dislike but because sometimes I can be very reserved. I notice that some people really do change in group dynamics and sometimes they can appear completely different in a group as opposed to how they are alone.

Did you approach these guys when you were with a group or were they people you knew from a work or school environment? Perhaps the men you were approaching weren't expecting it to happen or they were thrown off balance by it. Usually men take some time to get the confidence up to approach a girl so that could be another reason, maybe the first instinct they had was to reject you until they could make sense of the situation. It might not be because they didn't like you or find you to be attractive, it might be because they were simply not prepared.



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29 Feb 2012, 12:51 pm

smudge wrote:
I think political arguments can be fuelled by emotions, and men hate drama. I've been rejected enough by men thinking that I was stupid, I think because of my blank expression sometimes. Urgh.


The ironic bit about this is that one of them later texted that I'm "too logical", while he's more "vibe-based".


WTF does that mean? 8O


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ValentineWiggin
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29 Feb 2012, 12:53 pm

noname_ever wrote:

Maybe they don't like politics she wouldn't drop the subject. I dislike talking to politcal junkies as well and wouldn't want to be in a relationship with one unless they knew when to drop the conversation. Knowing when to not talk about your special interest is a skill that needs to be learned.


I guess. He never asked me to drop it.
I just don't know how to talk about things outside social sciences. :cry:

This one was a particularly bad date because some @sshole two tables over (popular coffee shop on my town's Hipster Avenue)
kept drumming on the table with his hands, and so I kept staring at him as opposed to my date because it was distracting/irritating.

I was stimming by the time I left, it was so awful.


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of the human Heart, that very few Men, who have no Property, have any Judgment of their own.
They talk and vote as they are directed by Some Man of Property, who has attached their Minds
to his Interest."


Last edited by ValentineWiggin on 29 Feb 2012, 12:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

hyperlexian
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29 Feb 2012, 12:54 pm

Wolfheart, it was usually someone i knew ahead of time, and i was always alone. i agree they were thrown off balance, but usually they did not recover from that shock.


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noname_ever
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29 Feb 2012, 12:58 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:
noname_ever wrote:

Maybe they don't like politics she wouldn't drop the subject. I dislike talking to politcal junkies as well and wouldn't want to be in a relationship with one unless they knew when to drop the conversation. Knowing when to not talk about your special interest is a skill that needs to be learned.


I guess. I just don't know how to talk about things outside social sciences. :cry:


Now consider that when dealing with someone who doesn't like or like to discuss politics. Alternatively, they could choose an opposing position to try to troll you. Choosing libertarian stances on most issues allows me to irritate both the right and the left.



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29 Feb 2012, 12:58 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
i agree they were thrown off balance, but usually they did not recover from that shock.


Tell me to piss off if you like, but what sort of men are you attracted to/think you could live with?



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29 Feb 2012, 1:01 pm

Tequila wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
i agree they were thrown off balance, but usually they did not recover from that shock.


Tell me to piss off if you like, but what sort of men are you attracted to/think you could live with?

a very wide range of men, really. not a certain type or anything.


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ValentineWiggin
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29 Feb 2012, 1:01 pm

noname_ever wrote:
Now consider that when dealing with someone who doesn't like or like to discuss politics.

I guess I'd just sit there, if no one asked me anything about myself.
I never know what to ask people... 8O

"Soo...you're not real close with your sister, then?"
"What did you say your dog's name was?"
"Yeah, U of Whatever is soo expensive!"


Shoot me.

Now, please.


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of the human Heart, that very few Men, who have no Property, have any Judgment of their own.
They talk and vote as they are directed by Some Man of Property, who has attached their Minds
to his Interest."


Tequila
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29 Feb 2012, 1:03 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
a very wide range of men, really. not a certain type or anything.


Ah, OK. If that's the case, some men within that wide range will be scared off by a very assertive woman. I know I would if it was too much. I'd wonder depending on how it was done if she was head-the-ball or something (there are enough of those about).



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29 Feb 2012, 1:08 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:
smudge wrote:
I think political arguments can be fuelled by emotions, and men hate drama. I've been rejected enough by men thinking that I was stupid, I think because of my blank expression sometimes. Urgh.


The ironic bit about this is that one of them later texted that I'm "too logical", while he's more "vibe-based".


WTF does that mean? 8O


Really? Usually men use the argument that women aren't logical enough! :lol:

Anyway, two men in a week... I'm taking it that you weren't too close to them anyway - I wouldn't worry about the reasons they gave you. If they're not interested, then move on. Just be concerned about what men who are interested, think of you.

Despite what people have been saying on here (me included) I think after a while if they don't ask, then still ask them...because if you don't find out, then the answer is always going to be a no. It sounds as though they haven't cut you out, at least. Or did I assume wrong?



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29 Feb 2012, 1:10 pm

Tequila wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
a very wide range of men, really. not a certain type or anything.


Ah, OK. If that's the case, some men within that wide range will be scared off by a very assertive woman. I know I would if it was too much. I'd wonder depending on how it was done if she was head-the-ball or something (there are enough of those about).


She said she wasn't more assertive than the average man. I don't think I am, either. It's just that men view it that way because they don't expect a woman to ask.



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29 Feb 2012, 1:17 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:
noname_ever wrote:
Now consider that when dealing with someone who doesn't like or like to discuss politics.

I guess I'd just sit there, if no one asked me anything about myself.
I never know what to ask people... 8O

"Soo...you're not real close with your sister, then?"
"What did you say your dog's name was?"
"Yeah, U of Whatever is soo expensive!"


Shoot me.

Now, please.


If politics is your interest you need to find someone who enjoys it as well. Many people do not have a significant interest in it and some openly disdain it. Others like politics but will have stances opposite to yours. I've seen some of my "matches" on OK cupid require that people interested in them have simlar views (they don't want to spend their life with someone who will cancel their vote every election). Taking the libertarian position will cause both sides to want to drop the conversation in my experience.

Would you want to date someone who's views are significantly different than your own?



Tequila
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29 Feb 2012, 1:20 pm

smudge wrote:
It's just that men view it that way because they don't expect a woman to ask.


I would be enormously grateful if they asked though but I'd feel absolutely appalling if I had to turn them down.

Still, at the end of the day:

Image



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29 Feb 2012, 1:22 pm

noname_ever wrote:
Taking the libertarian position will cause both sides to want to drop the conversation in my experience.


Depends what kind of libertarianism I think.