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DW_a_mom
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28 May 2012, 10:55 am

KTodd wrote:
Thanks for all of the replies. I do appreciate that she’s being honest with me about her needs and I feel that show’s her commitment towards me as it would be much easier for her to just cheat on me. What she is proposing is an open marriage for both of us not in the sense that we’re swingers and actively trying to get it on every weekend but if either one of us was in a situation where we wanted sex with someone else then we could do it without any guilt. I guess that’s polygamy but I place polygamist more in the swinger category. I appreciate her honesty because I’m sure many married peopled in the right circumstance would end up cheating and then their marriage would be over when the other spouse found out. It’s human nature to be sexually attracted to other people and it doesn’t bother me that she’s sexually attracted to other men. I’m sexually attracted to other women but I don’t feel the desire to pursue them beyond my imagination. I like Dan Savage and I’ve read his take on open marriages. I see the logic of it all but emotionally I’m having a hard time with it. It hurts me in ways that I can’t express that I can’t meet all of her needs. I get jealous and I feel possessive. I’m worried about experimenting with an open marriage. Will I be happy? I’m afraid I’ll end up withdrawing and the marriage will end. If we separate will I find someone else? An open marriage feels more like Friends With Benefits and that just feels empty to me. I feel it’s unfair to propose an open marriage when the other partner has Aspergers since it was unlikely they would have strayed (at least that’s my understanding so far). What if I end up with another woman? I’m not good at one-night stands and I could see myself falling into another relationship that ends our marriage. But I’m conflicted. I’d rather have a woman with a high sex drive than a devoted wife with no interest in sex. I see some other marriages around me where they are still devoted to each other (for now) but there is no sex.
I understand a good number of people find the idea of an open marriage abhorrent but I would never punish her by taking the kids. I don’t want a divorce. The emotional and financial strain of divorce seems far worse to me than her having sex with someone else a few times over the next few years. I can’t stand the idea of us being apart and sharing custody of the kids. I think it’s better for the kids that she has the occasional infidelity but to all others we look and act like a completely normal family.


If this doesn't work emotionally for you now, it won't later. You have to say no to the suggestion, but do use this as an opportunity to find out what is missing for her and how you can work on it as a couple.

I have known people in polyamorous relationships and there is usually the one who thinks it is great, working for everyone, and the other who is quietly being destroyed by it. By your own words, you would be the later. If she loves you, she will have to understand that this answer cannot work for you.


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DW_a_mom
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28 May 2012, 11:03 am

KTodd wrote:
simon_says wrote:
I think you need to find out how serious she is about it. Just mentioning a preference doesnt mean it's a deal breaker for your marriage. Maybe she's content with the fantasy of it. When I was in my 20s I was approached by maybe 4-5 different couples to be a third wheel for a night. You'd be surprised how often couples deviate from accepted norms.

If you did go ahead with it you might suggest yearly swinging outings as a couple. I'm sure you'll find other couples with her helping to draw them in, and this gets you involved to even the scales. That could be in addition to the "open" thing or as a replacement for it. You'd also need to come with a list of rules. Do you tell each other when it happens? Does there have to be some parity before it continues? Is it one time only per partner?

But it doesnt really sound like you are into it. You'll need to check with her to get a more detailed impression of what's what.


It’s not just a fantasy for her. I think she’s definitely into seeing other men. I don’t think she has anyone immediately in mind but then I wonder why she’s pushing it recently. The swinger or group sex thing appeals to me but I think I’m most comfortable with it in fantasy. I have offered to do the swinger thing but she’s not into it. Mainly I think because there are no suitable couples. Either we know them too well and it would just be awkward or it would be with strangers and equally awkward. Also she prefers just one-on-one which hurts me because I feel that’s more than sex. I don’t need parity but I feel it’s just going to be her going out and I will have nothing. Also, she doesn’t want any rules on it. I think I would rather know than have my imagination run wild but she prefers that we don’t tell each other.


Then you are at an impasse, and you need professional help to figure out where you go from here. I highly recommend you meet with a marriage counselor and see what can be done.

I wish you the best of luck, and am so sorry you are in this situation.


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NicoleG
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28 May 2012, 11:53 am

IlovemyAspie wrote:
I think its clear he doesn't want this. He's just trying to convince himself he can somehow be okay with it because he feels he's being forced into this and has no choice.


He doesn't have a choice in how she chooses to conduct herself, and he is being forced into facing it (nobody wants to be forced into facing something that they don't want to accept), but he does have a choice in how he wants to deal with it. He can also choose to change his mind regarding how he feels about it. I am providing additional information so that he can make an informed choice. It makes no difference to me how he proceeds, but an open relationship IS a viable option if he's willing to consider it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with him deciding for himself (convincing himself, as you put it) to be okay with it and then proceeding down a different path from there.Only they know what is best for their relationship, and only he can decide for himself which path he wishes to take.



IlovemyAspie
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28 May 2012, 1:06 pm

NicoleG wrote:
IlovemyAspie wrote:
I think its clear he doesn't want this. He's just trying to convince himself he can somehow be okay with it because he feels he's being forced into this and has no choice.


He doesn't have a choice in how she chooses to conduct herself, and he is being forced into facing it (nobody wants to be forced into facing something that they don't want to accept), but he does have a choice in how he wants to deal with it. He can also choose to change his mind regarding how he feels about it. I am providing additional information so that he can make an informed choice. It makes no difference to me how he proceeds, but an open relationship IS a viable option if he's willing to consider it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with him deciding for himself (convincing himself, as you put it) to be okay with it and then proceeding down a different path from there.Only they know what is best for their relationship, and only he can decide for himself which path he wishes to take.


I don't remember anyone here saying that there was anything wrong him deciding for himself. I know I didn't. So, yes only he can decide for himself what is best. I thought that was a given. I'm just saying I understand his feelings and thoughts about it and I know for me there would be no changing my mind about an open marriage. And I'm not willing to explore that option and I don't think he is either. But then again that's just what I've gathered from what he has said. He may be forced into facing it but he doesn't have to be forced into participating.



HisDivineMajesty
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28 May 2012, 1:30 pm

The problem with being forced to face it but not to participate in it is that it's her intention to unilaterally cheat on him whatever the outcome of these talks. And from what I've gathered, that's her motive and his main problem with the situation. It doesn't seem like she believes the relationship will improve if she sleeps with other men. It's just a fantasy of hers that she's already explored and wants to explore even further.

What I do think he should do is talk to her about the underlying reasons. See if she's able to provide him with a good structural reason other than her feeling attracted to other men and her desire to cheat.



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28 May 2012, 2:10 pm

HisDivineMajesty wrote:
The problem with being forced to face it but not to participate in it is that it's her intention to unilaterally cheat on him whatever the outcome of these talks. And from what I've gathered, that's her motive and his main problem with the situation. It doesn't seem like she believes the relationship will improve if she sleeps with other men. It's just a fantasy of hers that she's already explored and wants to explore even further.

What I do think he should do is talk to her about the underlying reasons. See if she's able to provide him with a good structural reason other than her feeling attracted to other men and her desire to cheat.


I completely agree with you. What I meant by not participating is getting the heck out!



NicoleG
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28 May 2012, 2:13 pm

IlovemyAspie wrote:
I don't remember anyone here saying that there was anything wrong him deciding for himself. I know I didn't. So, yes only he can decide for himself what is best. I thought that was a given. I'm just saying I understand his feelings and thoughts about it and I know for me there would be no changing my mind about an open marriage. And I'm not willing to explore that option and I don't think he is either. But then again that's just what I've gathered from what he has said. He may be forced into facing it but he doesn't have to be forced into participating.


You made it sound like you think, "He's just trying to convince himself," is wrong.

"I think its clear he doesn't want this," comes off as completely discounting the idea that he could change his mind. I'm not discounting that possibility. I also understand his feelings and thoughts about it, but I'm pro-open relationships, and I prefer to offer up advice in that direction. It's up to him to take it or leave it.



IlovemyAspie
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28 May 2012, 3:07 pm

NicoleG wrote:
IlovemyAspie wrote:
I don't remember anyone here saying that there was anything wrong him deciding for himself. I know I didn't. So, yes only he can decide for himself what is best. I thought that was a given. I'm just saying I understand his feelings and thoughts about it and I know for me there would be no changing my mind about an open marriage. And I'm not willing to explore that option and I don't think he is either. But then again that's just what I've gathered from what he has said. He may be forced into facing it but he doesn't have to be forced into participating.


You made it sound like you think, "He's just trying to convince himself," is wrong.

"I think its clear he doesn't want this," comes off as completely discounting the idea that he could change his mind. I'm not discounting that possibility. I also understand his feelings and thoughts about it, but I'm pro-open relationships, and I prefer to offer up advice in that direction. It's up to him to take it or leave it.


I think if you have to convince yourself of something then that means you are going against what you want.

And yes to me it is clear he doesn't want it- at least right now. He hasn't said what he is going to do so he may change his mind and go ahead and try it.

I am pro closed/monogamous relationships so my opinions and advice will lean in that direction. But I'm sure that's obvious.



NicoleG
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28 May 2012, 3:22 pm

IlovemyAspie wrote:
I think if you have to convince yourself of something then that means you are going against what you want.


Not at all. It means you are going against what you *think* you want. People convince themselves to try something new that they originally thought they didn't want all the time, and many times find that they like it.

Green Eggs and Ham, anyone?



IlovemyAspie
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28 May 2012, 3:25 pm

And some people just choose not to try. Nothing wrong with that either.

I haven't heard from the OP lately I'm interested in what he's thinking.



NicoleG
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28 May 2012, 3:41 pm

IlovemyAspie wrote:
I am pro closed/monogamous relationships so my opinions and advice will lean in that direction. But I'm sure that's obvious.


I'm all for whatever someone else thinks will work for them. I don't like it when advice on a subject comes off as very one-sided when I know there are clear positives for the other side as well. I like playing devil's advocate when I get the chance. :twisted:



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28 May 2012, 3:44 pm

You should definitely leave her. She is basically asking for your permission to cheat on you and not feel guilty. She is a slut.



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28 May 2012, 3:45 pm

NicoleG wrote:
Open marriage works when everyone involved agrees to the ground rules.


The problem here is, she's already made it an open marriage, unilaterally and in secrecy, without even attempting to get an agreement, by cheating. Now she wants to continue doing it without the inconvenience of the secrecy, but she will probably do it anyway whether he agrees or not; that's already been demonstrated.

I do not believe it is viable or healthy in this particular instance.



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28 May 2012, 4:09 pm

edgewaters wrote:
NicoleG wrote:
Open marriage works when everyone involved agrees to the ground rules.


The problem here is, she's already made it an open marriage, unilaterally and in secrecy, without even attempting to get an agreement, by cheating. Now she wants to continue doing it without the inconvenience of the secrecy, but she will probably do it anyway whether he agrees or not; that's already been demonstrated.

I do not believe it is viable or healthy in this particular instance.


My parents split up when I was in 6th grade because of adultery. They worked through their issues and are a very happily married couple who have now celebrated 36 years together. Anything's possible.

I agree, she will probably do it anyway, which is why I'm encouraging considering the open marriage as an option. He has also said he doesn't want to divorce her, and I put a lot more weight on that statement than I do on him saying he's not happy having to deal with this in the first place. This is not the first couple I've seen go through this kind of thing. I've seen couples open up the relationship with positive results, I've seen people give in and just decide to stay miserable for the sake of the marriage, and I've seen couples get divorced because they couldn't work it out. Who knows what the future hold for these two?



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28 May 2012, 4:15 pm

NicoleG wrote:
Who knows what the future hold for these two?


I imagine trust and respect are necessary for an open marriage to work, and she's demonstrated a distinct lack of both of these things. People can change if they can acknowledge things, I suppose, but not overnight with a few apologies and promises. I'd say they have to heal fully from what she's done before that can even be considered at all. It shouldn't be on the table at all, yet. Especially not as he's coming out as being AS. The whole thing smells bad.



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28 May 2012, 5:34 pm

edgewaters wrote:
NicoleG wrote:
Who knows what the future hold for these two?


I imagine trust and respect are necessary for an open marriage to work, and she's demonstrated a distinct lack of both of these things. People can change if they can acknowledge things, I suppose, but not overnight with a few apologies and promises. I'd say they have to heal fully from what she's done before that can even be considered at all. It shouldn't be on the table at all, yet. Especially not as he's coming out as being AS. The whole thing smells bad.


That's another thing that bothers me. Seems like he's discovering himself and trying to sort out his AS. I would like to think she would realize what is lacking could be because of the AS and that learning about it and working through it together may change her mind. But possibly this is just what she wants to do. If this is the case my heart goes out to him. Its gotta be rough trying figure himself out and dealing with this.