The problem with letting a woman know you care about looks

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You can't change your height, so it's actually worse.

I know you all think that the alpha males get all the women, but there are scientists actually studying why beta men actually do better marrying than alpha men. Somewhere there must be a statistic to that effect, that beta men are actually more successful with women than alpha men, and in my personal observation I would agree.

I know alpha men attract a lot of women, but what you guys aren't seeing is if they manage to keep any of them.

The alpha male on the show who made the fat comments: handsome, yes, but not someone the women I know are swooning over, and now that he has opened his mouth he is considered highly unattractive. There are big swoons, however, for the quirky funny beta type guy some people think wins the show. Women seem to run hot and cold with him, so if you are only hearing what you expect to hear you'll get the wrong impression, and maybe that is what happens in real life, too: you hear the women who says, "he's too nerdy for me" and miss the three others who are already in deep crush.

Last edited by DW_a_mom on 30 May 2012, 9:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

I would find it asinine if a group of women were joking in a mean-spirited manner about men who carried a little weight round the middle or something like that (although women actually do this also - again, this is one of those things being incorrectly framed as a gender when it is not).

Not because I am in denial that women have physical limitations to attraction. But because it would shame other women who might be interested, into not dating such a person, for fear of disapproval and ridicule, and thus diminish the chances of a male who fits that description, of meeting anyone. Even though there may be people who might not have a problem with that.

If people don't like something, that's fine. But they should keep it to themselves. I don't want to hear about what they find unattractive, and I certainly don't want to listen to their stupid asinine jokes about others. All I see is a bunch of cruel cretins on parade, trying to shove their paradigms down everyone else's throat, as if they need everyone else to be like them or require some sort of broad social consent to their dislikes. Why else would they do it? It looks so weak and pathetic.

Last edited by edgewaters on 30 May 2012, 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Yeah, it's a tough old world. Play the game or sit an moan on a forum labouring under some delusion while telling eveyone they're cretins, like they give a s**t you twat. Beth Ditto's in the wings with something quotable as the spokeman for fat people all over the world who unconvincingly assert how happy they are, I'm sure. And still, no one cares.

Last edited by ZX_SpectrumDisorder on 30 May 2012, 6:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.

bless this post

+1000

I did not claim it was just a male thing.

I just told you how a specific attitude - weight - is a specific turn off to large groups of women.

Ps - the whole height issue is another can of worms ... women are programmed to think men are supposed to be bigger and stronger than they are, and most men in my experience seem to be quite happy to reinforce that stereotype, so it takes social bravery to date a shorter man. Confident women have no issue with it, think Julia Childs , and I would be happy to lobby with you for a change in that social construct. Working on a tall female friend about it right now (not literally at this moment, but it is an on-going thing).

Yes ... stuff like that is exactly the core of the problem here ... one group shoving their standards down everyone else's throats, shaming and ridiculing both people who don't meet those standards, and people with different standards. Making life more difficult than it needs to be for everyone, often including themselves.

Excuse my language here, but f**k these people.

yeah, f**k the patriarchy

And the irrational fatphobia it produces.

Them too. But also just these people who can be either gender.

the patriarchy is a power system that can be served by people of any gender
but yes, these specific attitudes are toxic enough on their own without the surrounding structures

Yes, on that note, f*ck gender binaries, as well. ^_^

I felt I should add my two cents, which is probably worth even less than two pennies, but here goes.

First, I am attracted to women initially by their appearance. (I don't have a physical "type". I have been attracted to women of all shapes and sizes.) I cannot appreciate their intellect, their talents, their curiosity or their sense of humor from across the room. That attraction does not last long if I find out this person isn't very smart, is mean spirited or has beliefs which I find repellent.

The fact is, women do the same thing. I saw an experiment in which college students were fitted with eye glasses with special low intensity lasers which tracked exactly where the wearer was looking. Not surprisingly in a social situation (I think it was at a bar) young men were looking at women's body parts. Of course, when young women wore the glasses, it was discovered they were checking the guy's butts and crotches out. All of the women denied they did this, but the proof was there on the videotape.

There is a fallacy that women like smart, funny, sensitive men. All women say that. I'm not saying it isn't true, it is just not true in my experience. Most of the women friends I know have crude, unintelligent jerks for husbands.

As for myself, I have been described as smart, creative, funny and nice. My appearance is not very memorable, but my BMI is about where it should be. I've been continuously employed since my mid 20's, and while I have a temper, people rarely see it. I am 51 years old and have never been married, I have had only one "serious" relationship. I don't go around complimenting women for having an nice rack or complaining they have a big ass. I'm the guy women want their girlfriends to date. They wouldn't consider dating me themselves (and neither would their girlfriends). I am the epitome of a Beta male and I will most likely die alone.

I think the thread the OP was referring to was titled "What Physical Characteristic Do You Find Most Attractive in Women?" This was an invitation for men to be shallow, and many of the comments were. Those that said intelligence or sense of humor or whatever were reminded the thread was about physical characteristics, and told to stay on topic. How else could they be anything but shallow?

I think the Aspergian men who have difficulty with the opposite sex do not act in a crude and shallow manner. I think they do not act in a traditionally masculine fashion, and in this society (and most societies), that won't cut it with women. There are exceptions, of course, which undoubtedly someone will point out.

I'm a man. I've known many men. I can say without reservation we are scum. I think, deep down, most men know this. If they didn't, they wouldn't be so protective of their daughters and their wives in the presence of other men. But women are scum too. To borrow a phrase, "different but not less."

As a liberal, tree hugging feminist male, I will most likely regret posting this in about an hour. I have been conditioned well. But I am sick and tired of being told by women that men just like me are what women are looking for, when it is simply not true.

^So by your declarations you invalidate those of us who DO date "feminist tree-hugging" men (and no one but) based on your personal perceptions.

Nice.

I don't think the thread is an indictment of primary (IE, looks-based) attraction, which, btw, doesn't represent the totality or maybe even the majority of initial attraction- seeing someone "across the room" implies meeting someone at either a social gathering or in public. What portion of interactions actually occur in this environment? Romantic relationships develop from people working together, from online sites and forums, from school, and more.

Rather, the thread is simply asserting (shocker) that women want to be loved for themselves and not their looks, and maybe that should be taken into account by men who complain here?

Last edited by ValentineWiggin on 30 May 2012, 7:30 pm, edited 3 times in total.

[announcer voice] And straight out of left field come VW! [/announcer voice]



NTAndrew, by that post id say you probably fall more into omega male. Beta is the average guy that does get girls but not as many/ as goo as the alpha. Omega is the type that usually doesnt even get the scraps.

Last edited by MXH on 30 May 2012, 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.