"Involuntary celibacy"

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hyperlexian
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20 Jul 2012, 1:20 pm

AspergianMutantt wrote:

There is a gender gap here.

traditionally, and still vary common in modern society, females get to be the pickers and choosers, rejecting the males they do not find attractive or interesting enough for them (unless the females is vary ugly or something is just down right wrong with them).

Where men have to struggle with all the rejections before finding even one that will take interest. in order to get the females to more or less fight to get the males interest for a change the male has to struggle to become some kind of alpha that the females would fight for (looks are not as important to females then that of the mens status).

So with females its more of a voluntary celibacy, where with men its not. this changes mostly in times of war, where mens numbers are greatly decreased to where females can not be as picky.

there are female incels

. they have gone by different names throughout history like "maiden aunt", "old maid", "spinster". they have always existed. they may be the ones who never got any offers, or maybe they didn't get any offers they wanted (just like many male incels, apparently)

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hyperlexian
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20 Jul 2012, 1:23 pm

AspergianMutantt wrote:

Keeno wrote:

Having said that though, I wonder what governments COULD do to address incel in a halfway rational way since they seem to be getting mentioned by different posters? That's assuming any governments were even interested.

Governments wont care unless the Incel had to do with females, because they are the reproductive part of society. where men are mostly disposables used in war, and it only takes one stud to service many females, and its less competition if the males in government lets the other males suffer.

Face it, men are not nearly as valued as females, in most any society, and the ones in control do not care because they most of the time already have what they need because females are attracted to social status and men in power..

Not to mention females are getting to damned picky anyways and so the male populations need thinned out, the less males there are the more happy males and females there will be.

noooooooo.... what? there should be an equal number of single men and single women, mathematically.

oh, except more men are gay than women, so in fact there are probably MORE single women than men. your point does not make sense.

"studs" don't "service" "females" in human society. eww.

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hyperlexian
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20 Jul 2012, 1:27 pm

AspergianMutantt wrote:

Keeno wrote:

AspergianMutantt wrote:

Face it, men are not nearly as valued as females, in most any society, and the ones in control do not care because they most of the time already have what they need because females are attracted to social status and men in power..

Biologically, this is absolutely true.

As much as that stacks things against people like me, to return to the subject of prostitution, another point against it is I do not see why I should have to pay for something that most others have been able to get for nothing.

I think its sad, when a man hungers for just a little affection just to feel human, and females take advantage of that to better their own ends. demeaning the males own ego in the process when its already as low as it is for them to want to pay for it.

its like I said earlier, females don't have to hunger like we men do because they most always can get, its just not always what they want, when men can hardly even get that.

Men and women are built different, they do not hunger as we do, for them its more of a monthly thing, where men are built to consistently hunger, the ache that never ends. and that ache makes us feel oh so emotionally lonely even though its biological. the depression can be devastating.

Secondly, some people are so ret*d they are not able to find anyone or ever be able to get into a relationship, and I feel for them, if I had such a son or friend I would at least try and find a woman who would let him experience what its like to be touched and loved on, instead of a full life of never having or knowing, yet always hungering. so I feel there is a place in society for prostitution. although if I had my way it wouldn't be prostitution, it would be more like social and emotional counseling and support when the emptiness of our lives starts to get to much to bare, that way its more personal and humane.

But you know what? it may not be fair, but thats just the way it is.

did happen to notice the post that suggested some incel men are not short of opportunities? for those specific individuals they just don't want the women they can get. that is just as "picky" as you suggest any female is.

if a man used prostitutes, he wouldn't be an incel anymore, yet many men choose not to visit them - even in the places where it is legal. it doesn't "fix" anything.

how do you know how women hunger? the most recent data suggests that women's sex drives may be just as strong as men's, but they are socialised to express it differently.

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HisDivineMajesty
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20 Jul 2012, 1:39 pm

hyperlexian wrote:

noooooooo.... what? there should be an equal number of single men and single women, mathematically.

Why? In the areas where most members live, there is a slight skew in the sex ratio for the category in which most people find their partners (15-64). In favour of women, who are fewer in number and fewer in relative terms. 102 men for every 100 women where I live. That's a larger difference, perhaps, measured on a more realistic scale. That would be 102,000 men for every 100,000 women. That means women have an excess of 2000 above the normal amount of men to pick from, whereas men have to compete in a bottleneck competition against 2000 additional men. That means men have to work much harder, even beside cultural role patterns, to find a suitable partner who accepts them.

hyperlexian wrote:

oh, except more men are gay than women, so in fact there are probably MORE single women than men. your point does not make sense.

Apart from what I stated, I've yet to hear about that. Can you give me some information to read up on?

hyperlexian wrote:

"studs" don't "service" "females" in human society. eww.

In my personal experience, that could well be true. I've encountered some men who had a tremendous amount of success, and I've encountered many who'd had no succes in any way. Eventually, most tend to be somewhat succesful, perhaps finding a partner later and having more time between sexual encounters, but there seems to be only a small group of men who are really succesful and able to get many women with ease.

hyperlexian
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20 Jul 2012, 1:57 pm

HisDivineMajesty wrote:

the situation is reversed in those areas with more women than men, so it evens out mathematically. in those areas, females have a harder time.

HisDivineMajesty wrote:

Apart from what I stated, I've yet to hear about that. Can you give me some information to read up on?

Quote:

While still considered under-representative for many reasons, the census found 97% of counties nationwide contained same-sex couples. That translates to 594,000 same-sex couples across the U.S. (301,000 male couples, 293,000 female -- totaling 1 in 9 of "all unmarried couples")

http://www.commercialcloset.com/common/ ... =resources

Quote:

The CBS said there are 29,000 all-male couples and 24,000 lesbian couples. Despite the significant increase in the number of gay and lesbian couples, the group is equal to just over 1 percent of the total number of cohabiting couples in the Netherlands.

http://www.expatica.com/nl/news/local_n ... 25307.html

the stats are everywhere. even if you add bisexual people to the percentages there are still fewer women than men in the LGB mix.

HisDivineMajesty wrote:

why should men gain women with ease? why should women gain men with ease? those are the outliers and they don't affect anything that happens to the incels.

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HisDivineMajesty
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20 Jul 2012, 2:20 pm

hyperlexian wrote:

the situation is reversed in those areas with more women than men, so it evens out mathematically. in those areas, females have a harder time.

It does not even out even remotely in this part of Europe. It's the same ratio in Belgium and Luxembourg, there are 103,000 men for every 100,000 women in Sweden, Norway and the United Kingdom, and there are 104,000 men for every 100,000 women in Germany. That's all of northwestern Europe covered. Population-wise, we're talking about millions of men more than women in this part of the world. Canada is in a similar situation, although the United States officially is not. In my neighbourhood, the total amount of women in my age group is presumably less than 30% of the total amount of men in my age group. I recently found a great interactive census results map of the entire country, and I spent most time looking at the area where I live. The part where I live was deep-red, indicating a huge majority of men. And that includes couples.

Quote:

That's not nearly enough to cover the amount of surplus men, then. Assuming lesbian couples did not exist, there would still be a giant surplus of men. According to some very-quick calculations, nearly 130,000 country-wide. That's the population of a small city of men unable to find a partner if no women are lesbian but some men are gay. In a country smaller than the state of New York. With a relatively low sex ratio skew for northwestern Europe.

hyperlexian wrote:

why should men gain women with ease? why should women gain men with ease? those are the outliers and they don't affect anything that happens to the incels.

I'm not saying men should 'gain women with ease'. What I'm saying is that some men do gain women with ease while it's pretty difficult for the rest. Don't read ideology into this. This is a statement of how it is, not how it should be.

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20 Jul 2012, 2:24 pm

DogsWithoutHorses wrote:

No one is entitled to partnered sex, a lack of willing sex partners isn't a condition it's a circumstance.
It's not like missing an arm, it's like not having a bracelet. I don't see how incel is any different from not having other things you may want.
Celibacy doesn't make anyone any less of a man or less of a woman or a whatever.

What does your name mean?

hyperlexian
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20 Jul 2012, 2:30 pm

HisDivineMajesty wrote:

hyperlexian wrote:

the situation is reversed in those areas with more women than men, so it evens out mathematically. in those areas, females have a harder time.

no, there are more women than men in sweden:
http://www.scb.se/Pages/PressRelease____308294.aspx
also in Belgium, Luxembourg, Norway and the UK:
http://www.geohive.com/earth/pop_gender.aspx

you have it backwards. :lol:

Quote:

there aren't surplus men, so your point is false. there are surplus women.

Quote:

it's pretty difficult for women too.

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HisDivineMajesty
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20 Jul 2012, 3:25 pm

hyperlexian wrote:

no, there are more women than men in sweden:
http://www.scb.se/Pages/PressRelease____308294.aspx

"As usual, somewhat more boys than girls were born. The most children were born on 13 July, when 397 children came into the world. The most common months for births were July and March."

Furthermore, as I mentioned, I'm talking about the specific category of people in the age category 15-64. In the age category above 64, women greatly outnumber men because men die younger. Even in today's society, that's true. As for the rest of the information, although it doesn't completely correspond with some of the other information I've been able to access about this subject, here's some practical information from the World Factbook. Take a close look at the age category in which the vast majority of all dating happens - 15-64. Men outnumber women by a comfortable margin. Or rather, uncomfortable for men.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... /2018.html

hyperlexian wrote:

also in Belgium, Luxembourg, Norway and the UK:
http://www.geohive.com/earth/pop_gender.aspx

Again, 15-64:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... /2018.html

hyperlexian wrote:

you have it backwards. :lol:

Or you didn't read the part of my post that said 15-64. Few women over 64 can have children, and few still date.

hyperlexian wrote:

there aren't surplus men, so your point is false. there are surplus women.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... /2018.html - Categories 15-64 for the countries I mentioned. I kindly direct your attention. In case you'll tell me I didn't specify that category, here is a quote from my post of July 21, 2012, 5:39 am WrongPlanet Time (whatever it may be; always wrong for me):

HisDivineMajesty wrote:

Why? In the areas where most members live, there is a slight skew in the sex ratio for the category in which most people find their partners (15-64).

hyperlexian
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20 Jul 2012, 3:35 pm

no, you are wrong. many people over the age of 64 can and do engage in love & dating. the fact they cannot have natural children is irrelevant to that. single older women who are also lonely for love are a very real category that you are choosing to remove from the statistics in an effort to prove a point. if men dated SLIGHTLY older women, there could be a domino effect where all men are accounted for in dating, yet some women would still be single - just a more even age range of them. cont...

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hyperlexian
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20 Jul 2012, 3:41 pm

continued... but there is actually a skew in the opposite direction in most nations - except for extremely feminist countries which tend to have couples on-par in age. usually, the pairings are between younger women and older men.

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HisDivineMajesty
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20 Jul 2012, 3:51 pm

hyperlexian wrote:

This is all speculation. Differences between people in relationships aren't generally spectacular (and the woman is often the younger partner, which leaves even less space for men in the category 15-64), there are several times more people under the age of 64 actively looking for a partner, and they're quite often men.

hyperlexian wrote:

continued... but there is actually a skew in the opposite direction in most nations

We're not talking about those, and there's little information available on involuntary celibacy in those nations because it's either deemed not important enough for research, or subject of a cultural taboo. It's hard to research the issue if, as happens a lot in islamic culture, people with severe mental or physical handicaps are locked away by their families to prevent a situation of shame, while researchers prefer research into almost every other subject.

And again, in the age category 15-64 in the countries I mentioned, there is a rather large difference. Locally, the difference is enormous. That's not an explanation for my or anyone else's involuntary celibacy, but it helps explain why. There are fewer chances and there is more competition, meaning both the absolute and the relative standard one must meet is much higher.

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20 Jul 2012, 10:02 pm

ShamelessGit wrote:

DogsWithoutHorses wrote:

What does your name mean?

It's a reference to a John Mulaney bit off his special "New in Town".
(sorry for the ot)

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20 Jul 2012, 10:16 pm

DogsWithoutHorses wrote:

ShamelessGit wrote:

DogsWithoutHorses wrote:

What does your name mean?

It's a reference to a John Mulaney bit off his special "New in Town".
(sorry for the ot)

I'd wondered that myself.

Just found a few clips on youtube. Like him.

Done being off-topic.

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AspergianMutantt
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20 Jul 2012, 10:40 pm

HisDivineMajesty wrote:

Man, I am starting to like you hehehe
:twisted:

Magnus_Rex
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20 Jul 2012, 11:29 pm

I prefer the term "Non Practicing Heterosexual". It is funnier and more self-deprecating.

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