How can you have hope as a 41 yo virgin?
08 Sep 2012, 9:35 pm
Tequila wrote:
KeitaroKun wrote:
Honestly, you don't know HOW offensive and down-putting it is to tell a virgin to just hire a protitute. There's FAR MORE to the sexual drive than just putting a penis into a vagina. It's about the connection to another human being, feeling appreciated, attractive, loved, wanted, and deserving of happiness.
True, but some people with Asperger's aren't particularly interested in the emotional side of it.
Also, it's probably worth noting that people go to prostitutes for a wide range of reasons, not necessarily because they're 'sad virgins' or whatever. It's not as clear-cut as it might sound.
I take it you're physically in order, yes? I've known people who moan at the fact that they're virgins when it's pretty obvious why many women struggle to find them desirable on a basic level due to poor hygiene and so on.
I know a person who pays strippers to go out on dates with him. Like, sexless dates, where he pays for the meal and the girl's time at some rate. Yep.
Also, I have a friend who's used a prostitute for a very odd purpose. Business espionage. A new restaurant that was a competitor to the restaurant he worked at opened up, so he paid the prostitute to eat there and write down a bunch of stuff she observed about the restaurant.
08 Sep 2012, 9:42 pm
Nonperson wrote:
realitysucks wrote:
I'm also a skateborder/rollerblader with a good body, 5'10", grey eyes, etc. I seem invisible to women though. Women smile at me occasionally but probably because I am weird. I never had a woman ask me out at the mall or supermarket.
They probably smile at you either because of one of the following:
- They are friendly, outgoing women who smile at everyone.
- They are in a good mood at the time.
- They think you are cute.
I've met a lot of very outgoing women, but I never met one who would go up to a guy in a supermarket and ask him out. At most, they might strike up a chat about something neutral. Same goes for me: I'm actually not shy around men but I never asked one out outright, just started a conversation and hoped for the best. It may not be fair, but women learn that if a guy finds us attractive he will pursue us, and a guy who makes no effort to do so is just not interested.
There's really no practical solution but to put yourself out there. The more women you talk to, the better the chances: the same thing one woman finds off-putting another might find endearing. You want one who appreciates who you are, right? If you have to walk on thin ice to impress her, that's not the case, therefore she's not what you're after.
We're really, really not all the same and not looking for the same thing. Don't listen to the bitter single guys, look at the married guys - are they all the same?
I once had a girl ask me out at a convenience store. However I didn't know what she meant because I'm socially ret*d. Oh well. Can't win them all, err, any of them.
09 Sep 2012, 12:19 am
JNathanK wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
it's not b.s.
think of it this way. there are 4 possibilities:
1. if you become happy alone and find someone, you have a good chance of achieving a happy life and a fulfilling relationship
2. if you become happy alone and don't find someone, you have a good chance of achieving a happy life
3. if you don't become happy alone and find someone, you have a good chance of being unhappy and having a dysfunctional relationship
4. if you don't become happy alone and don't find someone, you will be miserable
the fact is, not everyone (male or female) is going to have a long-term relationship in their lifetime. but you will be better prepared for any eventuality (singleness OR a relationship) if you find a way to be happy, fulfilled, and accomplished in your life.
think of it this way. there are 4 possibilities:
1. if you become happy alone and find someone, you have a good chance of achieving a happy life and a fulfilling relationship
2. if you become happy alone and don't find someone, you have a good chance of achieving a happy life
3. if you don't become happy alone and find someone, you have a good chance of being unhappy and having a dysfunctional relationship
4. if you don't become happy alone and don't find someone, you will be miserable
the fact is, not everyone (male or female) is going to have a long-term relationship in their lifetime. but you will be better prepared for any eventuality (singleness OR a relationship) if you find a way to be happy, fulfilled, and accomplished in your life.
Plus, you're more likely to attract someone if you aren't in a miserable state of mind. There's no point in wallowing around in self pity over not getting a partner, because its counter-productive to the very goal of attracting a partner. Nobody really likes being around anyone who's miserable and dumps their problems on them, even other miserable people. Every moment you spend moping around, you're, both, eroding your confidence and losing time that you could be using to interact with people. Letting go of your insecurities is the ultimate form of liberation, moreso than even physically dethroning a tyrant, because all forms of totalitarianism, whether an abusive self perception, an abusive relationship, or an entire oppressive societal structure, is built on a foundation of deep seeded insecurity that needs to be smashed if humanity ever wants to truly be free.
Dude, nobody is saying they want to dump their problems on anyone. It's just like when you see EVERYBODY ELSE getting sex and cuddle and kisses, you want it, too! Especially when everybody talks about how good at feels. About it being described as the "ultimate pleasure and oneness". It's like a mother giving all her children presents except for you. Any sane person would feel outraged.
TM wrote:
wtfid2 wrote:
even if you can be happy alone you should never settle for it.
I personally can prob be happy alone but I will nvr be happy not having someone want to be physical with me once in my life...tht kind of rejection hurts. If I had sex once a yr with a girl who thought I was cute thtd be enough.
I personally can prob be happy alone but I will nvr be happy not having someone want to be physical with me once in my life...tht kind of rejection hurts. If I had sex once a yr with a girl who thought I was cute thtd be enough.
If you dislike/hate/etc yourself, why should anyone else love/like/accept you? Relationships are a 2 way street and what I see a lot on these boards are men overfocusing on what they want, what they need, what they would settle for, without thought for what the woman wants, needs and so on.
Imagine your ideal woman, what kind of man would she be interested in. A large part of this is being brutally honest with yourself, about your good sides and your bad sides. Then find ways to accentuate your good sides and improve your bad sides.
Self-love only goes so far. It doesn't get you cuddled or caressed or masaged or f****d. SURE, you can go to a prostitute, but that doesn't come with oneness and appreciation. Even if you thought yourself to be the greatest, sexiest thing in the world, you still can't f**k yourself.
Last edited by KeitaroKun on 09 Sep 2012, 12:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
09 Sep 2012, 12:20 am
feeling outraged is liable to offer zero results, and it will make you unhappy too.
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09 Sep 2012, 12:29 am
KeitaroKun wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
feeling outraged is liable to offer zero results, and it will make you unhappy too.
So is outrage at any OTHER injustice in life. What's your point?
I mean, I've TRIED the whole "Meh, I can be happy alone." It doesn't work. I was just lying to myself.
how is it an injustice, exactly?
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09 Sep 2012, 12:34 am
You know, I went to an anger management group. In it, were, a bunch of guys in for domestic disputes ordered by the court, who mostly claimed they didn't hit their partners and the physical altercations were started by their wives. As far as the validity of their stories, who knows. Maybe all the guys were psychopaths and I'm just dumb. But, one guy told how his wife was bipolar and off her meds, and was throwing stuff and threw him down the stairs and he got arrested for a domestic and his wife didn't and he was living at his mother's house at 50something years old due to their wonderful relationship.
I told him how I'd never had a girlfriend in my life, or got laid or anything like that, and he said "Oh yeah, my brother is like that, it's not a big deal dude, at least you avoid crap like this."
Another story, though less severe, I had a friend living in my apartment complex, I met him because I saw him tuning his car on a laptop, it was a really sweet turbo'd 400hp Jetta on 19" BBS wheels. He put like 10K into the car. So it's value was like 25K total. His girlfriend moved to his apartment, they got back together after breaking up before. She was hot, btw. Like stunning. Anyway... His girlfriend and him were gonna move to Atlanta, as his girlfriend (again, not wife, girlfriend) was offered better jobs there. So to get money to move down, he sold his 400hp Jetta, for only 10K to an idiot 15 year old kid, who ended up burning out the clutch within months. Him and his girlfriend broke up right after he sold the car and he ended up moving back in with his parents at like 28 years old.
This same guy, when I told him how I never had a girlfriend, he was just like "Dude don't worry about that, I know guys who've never had girlfriends and they're fine."
The other side of the relationship coin.
09 Sep 2012, 12:35 am
KeitaroKun wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
feeling outraged is liable to offer zero results, and it will make you unhappy too.
So is outrage at any OTHER injustice in life. What's your point?
I mean, I've TRIED the whole "Meh, I can be happy alone." It doesn't work. I was just lying to myself.
Walk up to random girls in the street and talk to them then.
spongy
Veteran
Joined: 17 Jul 2010
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,055
Location: Patiently waiting for the seventh wave
09 Sep 2012, 12:40 am
KeitaroKun wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
feeling outraged is liable to offer zero results, and it will make you unhappy too.
So is outrage at any OTHER injustice in life. What's your point?
I mean, I've TRIED the whole "Meh, I can be happy alone." It doesn't work. I was just lying to myself.
Bolded part is what you should focus on at the moment.
Finding someone isnt easy and if this someone can see that you are not happy with your own life at the moment your chances of anything happening with this person decrease to below 10% in most occasions(making the statistic up but you get the point)
The other day I was at a restaurant with a friend and two foreigners.
We were there just talking/having fun and getting to know each other(they were leaving the country so we knew that a relationship was off the table and we just wanted to take it as a learning experience).
We were just having fun and enjoying ourselves. At some point one of them asked a random stranger to take a picture of us.
Said random stranger took about 7 pictures of us because he wanted to make sure that he didnt "ruin the date".
It wasnt a date but thats how most dates should be. You getting to know the other person and both of you having fun at the same time. And Im sorry to say that if you are not happy with your current life its going to be hard to go on a date just to have fun and you are most likely going to end up focusing on the future and putting way too much pressure on the other party.
09 Sep 2012, 12:52 am
1000Knives wrote:
KeitaroKun wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
feeling outraged is liable to offer zero results, and it will make you unhappy too.
So is outrage at any OTHER injustice in life. What's your point?
I mean, I've TRIED the whole "Meh, I can be happy alone." It doesn't work. I was just lying to myself.
Walk up to random girls in the street and talk to them then.
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Your Aspie score: 101 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 111 of 200
You seem to have both Aspie and neurotypical traits
09 Sep 2012, 12:57 am
hyperlexian wrote:
feeling outraged is liable to offer zero results, and it will make you unhappy too.
Being trapped on a planet with a bunch of monkeys while having unattractive traits that you didn't ask for isn't an injustice?
1000Knives wrote:
You know, I went to an anger management group. In it, were, a bunch of guys in for domestic disputes ordered by the court, who mostly claimed they didn't hit their partners and the physical altercations were started by their wives. As far as the validity of their stories, who knows. Maybe all the guys were psychopaths and I'm just dumb. But, one guy told how his wife was bipolar and off her meds, and was throwing stuff and threw him down the stairs and he got arrested for a domestic and his wife didn't and he was living at his mother's house at 50something years old due to their wonderful relationship.
I told him how I'd never had a girlfriend in my life, or got laid or anything like that, and he said "Oh yeah, my brother is like that, it's not a big deal dude, at least you avoid crap like this."
Another story, though less severe, I had a friend living in my apartment complex, I met him because I saw him tuning his car on a laptop, it was a really sweet turbo'd 400hp Jetta on 19" BBS wheels. He put like 10K into the car. So it's value was like 25K total. His girlfriend moved to his apartment, they got back together after breaking up before. She was hot, btw. Like stunning. Anyway... His girlfriend and him were gonna move to Atlanta, as his girlfriend (again, not wife, girlfriend) was offered better jobs there. So to get money to move down, he sold his 400hp Jetta, for only 10K to an idiot 15 year old kid, who ended up burning out the clutch within months. Him and his girlfriend broke up right after he sold the car and he ended up moving back in with his parents at like 28 years old.
This same guy, when I told him how I never had a girlfriend, he was just like "Dude don't worry about that, I know guys who've never had girlfriends and they're fine."
The other side of the relationship coin.
I told him how I'd never had a girlfriend in my life, or got laid or anything like that, and he said "Oh yeah, my brother is like that, it's not a big deal dude, at least you avoid crap like this."
Another story, though less severe, I had a friend living in my apartment complex, I met him because I saw him tuning his car on a laptop, it was a really sweet turbo'd 400hp Jetta on 19" BBS wheels. He put like 10K into the car. So it's value was like 25K total. His girlfriend moved to his apartment, they got back together after breaking up before. She was hot, btw. Like stunning. Anyway... His girlfriend and him were gonna move to Atlanta, as his girlfriend (again, not wife, girlfriend) was offered better jobs there. So to get money to move down, he sold his 400hp Jetta, for only 10K to an idiot 15 year old kid, who ended up burning out the clutch within months. Him and his girlfriend broke up right after he sold the car and he ended up moving back in with his parents at like 28 years old.
This same guy, when I told him how I never had a girlfriend, he was just like "Dude don't worry about that, I know guys who've never had girlfriends and they're fine."
The other side of the relationship coin.
"Some relationship are bad, therefore, it's good to miss out on good ones." ???
1000Knives wrote:
Walk up to random girls in the street and talk to them then.
And say what? It's pretty hard for me to start conversations as it is. I think most people think it's weird to just be approached by a random person and have a conversation started with them that has nothing to do with the situation. I've had it happen. The aftermath wasn't pleasant.
spongy wrote:
Bolded part is what you should focus on at the moment.
Finding someone isnt easy and if this someone can see that you are not happy with your own life at the moment your chances of anything happening with this person decrease to below 10% in most occasions(making the statistic up but you get the point)
The other day I was at a restaurant with a friend and two foreigners.
We were there just talking/having fun and getting to know each other(they were leaving the country so we knew that a relationship was off the table and we just wanted to take it as a learning experience).
We were just having fun and enjoying ourselves. At some point one of them asked a random stranger to take a picture of us.
Said random stranger took about 7 pictures of us because he wanted to make sure that he didnt "ruin the date".
It wasnt a date but thats how most dates should be. You getting to know the other person and both of you having fun at the same time. And Im sorry to say that if you are not happy with your current life its going to be hard to go on a date just to have fun and you are most likely going to end up focusing on the future and putting way too much pressure on the other party.
Finding someone isnt easy and if this someone can see that you are not happy with your own life at the moment your chances of anything happening with this person decrease to below 10% in most occasions(making the statistic up but you get the point)
The other day I was at a restaurant with a friend and two foreigners.
We were there just talking/having fun and getting to know each other(they were leaving the country so we knew that a relationship was off the table and we just wanted to take it as a learning experience).
We were just having fun and enjoying ourselves. At some point one of them asked a random stranger to take a picture of us.
Said random stranger took about 7 pictures of us because he wanted to make sure that he didnt "ruin the date".
It wasnt a date but thats how most dates should be. You getting to know the other person and both of you having fun at the same time. And Im sorry to say that if you are not happy with your current life its going to be hard to go on a date just to have fun and you are most likely going to end up focusing on the future and putting way too much pressure on the other party.
DUDE, why does everybody keep implying that the only reason I want a girlfriend is to "solve my problems"? Or that it's because I'm not happy with my life? What if I AM happy with my life in all aspects of my life EXCEPT my relationship status? I'm not expecting a girlfriend to solve my problems. I just want to benefits that everybody else enjoys and I'm sick of people condescendingly preach to me about the virtues of being single when they themselves get into relationships every few weeks or days or so with no effort, something they take for granted and have never had to experience struggle with whatsoever. It's like a rich, fat person preaching to a starving, poor person about the virtues of poverty. Not saying anyone HERE is doing that, but that's my general experience with NTs.
wtfid2 wrote:
majority of people dont want to be bothered and will call their friends when they get home and tell them about that creepy douschebag who was harassing her on her way to her bf;s house. I have tried the say hi to every single girl you see tactic anf couldnt do it, just felt so weird, and there were girls with guys so didnt wanna get into a fight. I can easily as a stranger for the time though lol..sp tht could be a segway
THIS
09 Sep 2012, 1:01 am
KeitaroKun wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
feeling outraged is liable to offer zero results, and it will make you unhappy too.
Being trapped on a planet with a bunch of monkeys with unattractive traits that you didn't ask for isn't an injustice?
i am pretty sure that social interactions don't involve any form of justice (including injustice).
we don't seem to be talking about the same thing, or at least you are going off on a tangent.
so what is the solution? you can stew in your rage and hate, and eventually either self-destruct or take it out on other people, or... you can find a way to be satisfied with the status quo. i am not advocating that you lie to yourself. i am advocating that you change your life from the inside.
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09 Sep 2012, 1:07 am
hyperlexian wrote:
KeitaroKun wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
feeling outraged is liable to offer zero results, and it will make you unhappy too.
Being trapped on a planet with a bunch of monkeys with unattractive traits that you didn't ask for isn't an injustice?
i am pretty sure that social interactions don't involve any form of justice (including injustice).
we don't seem to be talking about the same thing, or at least you are going off on a tangent.
so what is the solution? you can stew in your rage and hate, and eventually either self-destruct or take it out on other people, or... you can find a way to be satisfied with the status quo. i am not advocating that you lie to yourself. i am advocating that you change your life from the inside.
Are you assuming that I'm just some manchild like CWC who just sits in his room playing video games all day and making no efforts at all to improve his life career and living wise? Because I assure you, that isn't the case with me. I have a job and living on my own, and I'm enrolled in a course to study to be a railway conductor which has a 90% hire rate. I'm feeling very optimistic about my life in general, even though life kind of sucks at the moment.
Thing is, I'm not PARTICULARLY worried about finding someone myself, but I DO feel empathy for deserving guys out there that DON'T find someone because of the evolutionary baggage the the majority of this species posses.
spongy
Veteran
Joined: 17 Jul 2010
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,055
Location: Patiently waiting for the seventh wave
09 Sep 2012, 1:07 am
KeitaroKun wrote:
spongy wrote:
Bolded part is what you should focus on at the moment.
Finding someone isnt easy and if this someone can see that you are not happy with your own life at the moment your chances of anything happening with this person decrease to below 10% in most occasions(making the statistic up but you get the point)
The other day I was at a restaurant with a friend and two foreigners.
We were there just talking/having fun and getting to know each other(they were leaving the country so we knew that a relationship was off the table and we just wanted to take it as a learning experience).
We were just having fun and enjoying ourselves. At some point one of them asked a random stranger to take a picture of us.
Said random stranger took about 7 pictures of us because he wanted to make sure that he didnt "ruin the date".
It wasnt a date but thats how most dates should be. You getting to know the other person and both of you having fun at the same time. And Im sorry to say that if you are not happy with your current life its going to be hard to go on a date just to have fun and you are most likely going to end up focusing on the future and putting way too much pressure on the other party.
Finding someone isnt easy and if this someone can see that you are not happy with your own life at the moment your chances of anything happening with this person decrease to below 10% in most occasions(making the statistic up but you get the point)
The other day I was at a restaurant with a friend and two foreigners.
We were there just talking/having fun and getting to know each other(they were leaving the country so we knew that a relationship was off the table and we just wanted to take it as a learning experience).
We were just having fun and enjoying ourselves. At some point one of them asked a random stranger to take a picture of us.
Said random stranger took about 7 pictures of us because he wanted to make sure that he didnt "ruin the date".
It wasnt a date but thats how most dates should be. You getting to know the other person and both of you having fun at the same time. And Im sorry to say that if you are not happy with your current life its going to be hard to go on a date just to have fun and you are most likely going to end up focusing on the future and putting way too much pressure on the other party.
DUDE, why does everybody keep implying that the only reason I want a girlfriend is to "solve my problems"? Or that it's because I'm not happy with my life? What if I AM happy with my life in all aspects of my life EXCEPT my relationship status? I'm not expecting a girlfriend to solve my problems. I just want to benefits that everybody else enjoys and I'm sick of people condescendingly preach to me about the virtues of being single when they themselves get into relationships every few weeks or days or so with no effort, something they take for granted and have never had to experience struggle with whatsoever. It's like a rich, fat person preaching to a starving, poor person about the virtues of poverty. Not saying anyone HERE is doing that, but that's my general experience with NTs.
I didnt imply that you expected some girl to sort your life out at any point.
What I did imply is that being so focused on finding a partner is not the best mindset(even at a date) because it sends the wrong signals.
And believe it or not the right mindset can some times be more helpful than your looks for example
09 Sep 2012, 1:14 am
spongy wrote:
KeitaroKun wrote:
spongy wrote:
Bolded part is what you should focus on at the moment.
Finding someone isnt easy and if this someone can see that you are not happy with your own life at the moment your chances of anything happening with this person decrease to below 10% in most occasions(making the statistic up but you get the point)
The other day I was at a restaurant with a friend and two foreigners.
We were there just talking/having fun and getting to know each other(they were leaving the country so we knew that a relationship was off the table and we just wanted to take it as a learning experience).
We were just having fun and enjoying ourselves. At some point one of them asked a random stranger to take a picture of us.
Said random stranger took about 7 pictures of us because he wanted to make sure that he didnt "ruin the date".
It wasnt a date but thats how most dates should be. You getting to know the other person and both of you having fun at the same time. And Im sorry to say that if you are not happy with your current life its going to be hard to go on a date just to have fun and you are most likely going to end up focusing on the future and putting way too much pressure on the other party.
Finding someone isnt easy and if this someone can see that you are not happy with your own life at the moment your chances of anything happening with this person decrease to below 10% in most occasions(making the statistic up but you get the point)
The other day I was at a restaurant with a friend and two foreigners.
We were there just talking/having fun and getting to know each other(they were leaving the country so we knew that a relationship was off the table and we just wanted to take it as a learning experience).
We were just having fun and enjoying ourselves. At some point one of them asked a random stranger to take a picture of us.
Said random stranger took about 7 pictures of us because he wanted to make sure that he didnt "ruin the date".
It wasnt a date but thats how most dates should be. You getting to know the other person and both of you having fun at the same time. And Im sorry to say that if you are not happy with your current life its going to be hard to go on a date just to have fun and you are most likely going to end up focusing on the future and putting way too much pressure on the other party.
DUDE, why does everybody keep implying that the only reason I want a girlfriend is to "solve my problems"? Or that it's because I'm not happy with my life? What if I AM happy with my life in all aspects of my life EXCEPT my relationship status? I'm not expecting a girlfriend to solve my problems. I just want to benefits that everybody else enjoys and I'm sick of people condescendingly preach to me about the virtues of being single when they themselves get into relationships every few weeks or days or so with no effort, something they take for granted and have never had to experience struggle with whatsoever. It's like a rich, fat person preaching to a starving, poor person about the virtues of poverty. Not saying anyone HERE is doing that, but that's my general experience with NTs.
I didnt imply that you expected some girl to sort your life out at any point.
What I did imply is that being so focused on finding a partner is not the best mindset(even at a date) because it sends the wrong signals.
And believe it or not the right mindset can some times be more helpful than your looks for example
It's not like I'm DESPERATE for somebody. I'm not gonna marry the first person who shows sufficient interest, and I don't need a supermodel, either. But when you're getting older and COMPLETELY missed out of the passion-filled, teenage sex that most people get to experience, it kind of leaves you worried that you won't find anybody until you're an old man who's unable to enjoy it like a young person can. The only thing that gives me hope is the possibility that medical technology will keep to young indefinitely.
09 Sep 2012, 1:22 am
KeitaroKun wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
KeitaroKun wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
feeling outraged is liable to offer zero results, and it will make you unhappy too.
Being trapped on a planet with a bunch of monkeys with unattractive traits that you didn't ask for isn't an injustice?
i am pretty sure that social interactions don't involve any form of justice (including injustice).
we don't seem to be talking about the same thing, or at least you are going off on a tangent.
so what is the solution? you can stew in your rage and hate, and eventually either self-destruct or take it out on other people, or... you can find a way to be satisfied with the status quo. i am not advocating that you lie to yourself. i am advocating that you change your life from the inside.
Are you assuming that I'm just some manchild like CWC who just sits in his room playing video games all day and making no efforts at all to improve his life career and living wise? Because I assure you, that isn't the case with me. I have a job and living on my own, and I'm enrolled in a course to study to be a railway conductor which has a 90% hire rate. I'm feeling very optimistic about my life in general, even though life kind of sucks at the moment.
Thing is, I'm not PARTICULARLY worried about finding someone myself, but I DO feel empathy for deserving guys out there that DON'T find someone because of the evolutionary baggage the the majority of this species posses.
the last part of your post is problematic, and it reveals a lot about your mindset.
nobody deserves anything when it comes to relationships. it has nothing to do with "evolutionary baggage". for every single man there is a single woman, so it's not like single men are being left out of some super-special club and women are responsible. much of the problem with the mindset of thinking that people deserve a relationship is that they think they deserve a relationship with a certain type or a certain quality of person - not just ANY person. if a person would go for ANY relationship, there are many to be had out there. but that isn't the case.
along your line of thinking, don't the single women "deserve" somebody too?
(where on earth did i say anything about you being a manchild or whatever a CWC is? i am pointing out the rage i am feeling in your posts on this topic, and i am explaining why that rage is not only futile but detrimental)
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