Figuring out a girl I've met recently

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In response to your last post.

The way I see it, it’s more likely she’s so fed up that you still haven’t made a move that she’s closed the window of opportunity on you. Though if she’s still willing to meet you at all, that could change if you start being more assertive.



Don’t beat yourself up over this. You’re not even sure what her intentions were anyway.



Why would you tell yourself that?



If she did in fact play you for academic gain, there’s no way in hell she’d ever let you know about it.

Palindrome has some seriously good points. I can't believe I failed to see some of these.

Wow, I cannot thank you all enough for taking the time helping me with this situation that I am just completely swamped with. Really, thank you.

@Palindrome5
Again, thank you for your insight (and no hard feelings for setting me straight, I need to be talked to like that in order to get my s**t together). Guess I really, really suck at this whole male-female-interaction thing, huh? Lord knows how I would have loved to go out with here, but my mind is just always in the way. I would not consider myself a control-freak, but I just happen to have the tendency to always need the feeling I am in control of what happens with me. Looking back at it, she has just completely blindsided me with her being so nice to me and being interested in me that I just lost my mind there. Since the messaging has become quite bit less, I assume whatever interest in hooking up with me again has vanished with her. You think I should still try to ask her out to meet over coffee? The way you describe it, she was really into me, which I still have trouble thinking of... and it is actually quite intimidating, because I just have no experience with this sort of thing. She seems to be quite self-assured and she knows what she wants, so I don't think she'd be quite happy with someone who does not know what he's doing.
But I will definitely give it another last thought if I will try to make a move. After all, maybe she's still a little interested and I can convince her that I am usually much more self-condfident and we've just had an unfortunate start in this regard. What do you think?

Yeah like I said if she's still in contact with you/willing to meet up, I think you still have a chance with her. She's just lost enthusiasm for you since she's convinced you won't make a move. I bet if you called (as opposed to texting) to arrange a creative date (as opposed to routine coffee), she'd be thrilled. Or she'd blow you off, but at least you put yourself out there.

I'm guessing you'll be pretty nervous so I'd recommend meditating beforehand to calm your nerves before asking her out however you choose to go about it.

I think I owe you at least trying to wind up the courage to do it, since your support really means alot to me (I kinda really need it atm). Alas, there is two things I would like to hear your oppinion on specifically:

1. I would really like to talk to her personally and call her, I just do not have her number. Wouldn't asking her her number and calling her straight away be a little... obvious and short of plain harasssment? I mean, if she really, REALLY would like to talk to me, she would've aske me for my number, wouldn't she?

2. I have asked her out for coffee twice before, and she always said she was still too sick for it, her main reasoning being she still was too tired and didn't want to pass it on to me. I interpreted this as a polite way of saying: I appreciate the offer, but not with you, thanks. Then again, she asked me if could pass her my lecture notes on my seminars that I passed for my bachelor degree equivalent, which of course I am happy to share, the thing is, she said she does not plan to choose the same focus as me at all, and our subject is arranged as such that she practically had no use whatsoever from having my lecture notes, since nobody will ever demand her to show expertise in this subject... like, AT ALL. Could that be just an excuse to hook up again? I know, I know, I am overanalyzing again, but to me, she is just giving misleading clues about her feelings... it just feels like one moment she wants me to keep attached to her, and the next she's trying to make sure I came too close to her. Like I said, she told me her boyfriend moved out recently (and again, it was one of the first things she dropped), and yet, in an E-mail, she told me she was meeting with "her guy that looked after her while she was sick when he wasn't busy working" (that is almost the exact wording - translated of course)... which, again, to me, translates into: "This seat is taken, so do not get your hopes up!" This, to me, is just misleading, and the basis for my ever growing mistrust. I have been nothing but honest to her, and yet I feel she is somehow toying with me. Is this really how this whole dating game between man and woman is supposed to work? I just don't understand the rules, and I think this is why I have to analyze every move in it (as I would in, say, a game of chess: The opponent's move rules out certain possibilities that might follow, but I cannot figure out where he truly intends to go after the next move... I can only speculate. With the difference being that I understand the rules of chess, and can act accordingly. It's like trying to play chess without even knowin how your pieces move.)

As an additional note to consider, I'd like to add that before we go to sleep, we write each other one last time, wishing a good night and all that. Yesterday, she mentioned that she was going to bed and read a little bit before going to sleep, and she said she was reading "50 Shades of Grey" (no lie), which, please don't laugh, actually a little bit aroused for a brief moment. I mean, what the heck?

I’m going to humor your over-analysis a bit, but just to emphasize a point: you will never be able to understand a person’s behavior with 100% certainty no matter how hard you try. Rather, you need to become comfortable with a certain level of uncertainty. Accept that you’re not sure if she likes you or is just using you for academic gain, and TAKE ACTION.

Asking for a number is harassment? You couldn’t be more wrong. Most women actually feel awkward NOT giving guys their numbers when they ask for them, and if they don’t like the guy they just won’t answer any of his texts. This is especially common if you get a woman’s phone number in a club/bar when she’s drunk.

And the fact that she didn’t ask for your number is kind of meaningless. It’s up to you to take charge of these things. Would you also be upset if she didn’t initiate kissing, or getting physical, or bringing her home? Sure, occasionally the woman will actually lead the man in seduction, but there’s a cultural expectation that it’s up to the guy to make things happen.



Or maybe she’s still sick. I had this irritating cold that took almost 3 weeks to get over recently. Wasn’t she actually hospitalized?



Is it possible that she’s a total airhead and doesn’t realize this herself? I think it’s very unlikely. I mean, after all, if she weren’t into you, she’d be such a master manipulator in her actions thus far that she couldn’t possibly be that stupid in regards to her grad work.

But what if she has amazing interpersonal skills but is completely clueless academically? I could continue this type of self-narrative until my head is spinning.



It is very possible she is playing games with you. Sometimes women try and make a man jealous as a way of attracting him. It’s incredibly irrational but you’d be surprised how often it happens. It also works the other way. A woman will find a man more attractive if he’s in a relationship due to something called “pre-selection”, but that makes absolutely no sense intuitively since she has no shot with the guy.

So it’s either that (most likely), or she is incredibly vindictive (unlikely), or is trying to let you down easy without hurting your feelings (more plausible).



Only if the woman is petty and insecure, which is unfortunately rather common.



And here’s your problem. Relationships aren’t a chess game, you can’t logic your way into a woman’s pants. Otherwise men would be doing calculus problems to seduce women. Have you ever noticed that when a married couple argue, the person who’s the most factually correct doesn’t necessarily win the argument?

Seduction is a bit like learning how to ski or how to drive. You can’t learn about it from reading a book. You need to practice and gain experience until you develop an intuition about it and the nuances of socializing & relationships become second nature to you.



DUDE, you realize 50 Shades of Grey is erotica, right? This woman WANTS YOU SO BADLY you could probably just invite her over to your house at midnight for a bootycall.

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Look, I know exactly how you feel. I once developed a crush on this girl that was so obsessive I would analyze how she crossed her legs and how her eyes moved as I talked to her. Of course, I never got into a relationship with her and I was crushed. On the other hand, every time I’ve gotten laid I was completely in the moment, trying very little, with an attitude of “I’m enjoying myself, let’s see where this goes.” But the point being, there was almost no analysis going on, just being present and doing what my gut told me to. That’s not to say you don’t think at all, just that there’s a point of diminishing returns that you’ve crossed and then some.

Like you, I thought I could tackle relationships the same way I could tackle an engineering problem: by thinking my way into better relationship skills. I’d read countless books about confidence, seduction, body language, social skills, storytelling, etc but those benefits pale in comparison to actually putting yourself into uncomfortable situations and learning 1st hand.

What I’ve learned is that an incredible amount of my thinking (not just about women, but even life in general) is just an enormously intricate rationalization for avoiding my fears. This whole narrative you built is just a complex mental construct to avoid your fear of making a move with this woman. It’s so scary for you to actually face the possibility of her rejection that your mind instead creates all sorts of comfortable justifications you can cling to instead. Your amygdala interprets the act of seducing this woman as a danger comparable to being attacked by a lion.

I’m no expert on actually conquering this fear and I fully know how ****ing terrifying it is, but I do know it when I see it. The woman wants you, go get her, ignore that nagging voice in your head that will cling to any excuse not to follow through with this and accept that you might feel a nasty but momentary sting in your stomach if things don’t go well.

Alright, we have agreed on writing again later when she has returned from work. I will see if she drops a hint on how she's feeling, and see if I can ask her out one last time (don't really know how to do that, yet, since I've already asked her twice and don't want her to think I am pushing her or anything). I will tell you how that worked out.

Well, what do you know? She denied me again, but as one would expect, not without being confusingly ambigous. She said she had some afairs to deal because of her sick grandmother (apparently, she's not sick anymore), but alas, she didn't want to talk about it via E-mail and said she wanted to talk about these things with me in person... how is this going to work if she doesn't want to meet me? I think it is time for me to forget about all that and move on... it doesn't even hurt that much because I am really starting to get a little pissed off the fact that she doesn't behave unambigously :/ .

Tell her you want to go to the mall tomorrow, and you expect to meet here there

Don't listen to me, that is just what I would have said.

Get her number, call her. Text her. Advance Advance Advance. If she doesn't want you to have her number then that is the end of that chapter.

In "gaming" the idea is to always escalate. Texting -> Talking - > Meeting -> Date -> Bedroom

Well, I am really out of ideas how I can really end this. I mean, I send her an E-mail stgating that I had the feeling I was bothering her and better should not be texting with her anymore (because the mails have reduced in number quite dramatically, and because I am sick of playing these games that lead to nowhere), to which she replied something along the lines of "You are not bothering me, at all... silly you, don't you say something like that. I just have been very busy these days. I write you again tomorrow right after getting up and having showered in the morning, okay? Looking forward to it... I really like texting with you!"
Yeah, sure, all of a sudden. I just want to call this thing off and move along, but how should I do that if she doesn't let me move in either direction? I just feel trapped somehow.

would that be a definition of the friend zone?

I actually have thought about that, but why would you friendzone someone you barely know, and have met exactly ONCE. Assuming I just got friendzoned... how can I make it clear to her that I have no interest in such a "friendship" and that we better not talk to each other anymore. I guess men and women can't be friends, huh?

Simple, Outright ignore her.

It sounds like she is interested in you and you should go for it.

Thing is, I have been trying by best since about 2 Weeks now, to no avail. Ignoring her is, sadly, not much of an option, since I will be seeing her in college when fall term starts next week. I mean, I have tried not writing her back for a while, but then she's writing me back asking why I haven't answered in a while and that she is worried. I just can't figure this woman out. I mean, if she really is that busy (at least she says that she is visiting her sick grandmother everyday and is still a little sick herself), I don't want to be insensitive and accuse or of trying to be deliberately elusive... there is a slim chance that her texting with me is actually and genuinely cheering her up in a rather confusing moment in her life, and I don't want to cause her additional grief.