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Shau
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25 Nov 2013, 11:20 am

Tequila wrote:
Not many women will give explicit permission like what OP wants.


There's a pretty big line between wanting a sexually assertive and dominant woman, and wanting a woman that doesn't tell me to stop when I make a move on her (Which I did again, and again, and again...). You got a pretty weird picture of what's going on painted in your head, m80.

And I'm definitely not exactly turned on by the body language of a cold fish.



Tequila
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25 Nov 2013, 12:27 pm

Shau wrote:
and wanting a woman that doesn't tell me to stop when I make a move on her


It might be to do with the way you made a move. I don't know, and I'm not there.

In any case, you're well rid.



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25 Nov 2013, 1:48 pm

Well, I feel bad for you, Shau. But to be fair, the relationship hasn't really been what you wanted, and (from your posts) it didn't seem to have much chance of turning into that. You did all that you could, it seems - she just wasn't relationship material.

Best of luck with the next one, fling or otherwise.

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Well I would try to escalate things and she'd stop me...and she'd slowly and steadily escalate things with us and seemed happy taking the initiative. A complete role reversal and not what I was used to, but she would fight me every time I tried to take the lead. After so many times you're just like "Eh...whatevs."

I'm thinking it has nothing to do with me, just with her being a strange, weird outlier because honestly I've never had these problems normally.


Some people play strange games, especially over sex and intimacy, and sometimes they can't help it - they can be so deeply wired into a person's psyche. In the past, I was drawn into 'understanding' them, and understanding the person that played them. This led me into many messed up situations :lol: Now, you can list the reasons why women (and men) play these games (it usually boils down to one word - control), but in the end if it's not something you are comfortable with, and it cannot be resolved, then exit stage left and 'let's just be friends' is the only card worth playing.



Geekonychus
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25 Nov 2013, 2:19 pm

JanuaryMan wrote:
I understand your wish to help people dude but can you do it without putting down other guys for once? I was on about general displays of affection and kissing. You think of all the time here I'd advocate forcing yourself onto a woman sexually, gf or not? That was low, man.

Tequila wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Tequila wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
You were the rebound guy.


Er, no.

She really did like him and was desperate for him to make a move and show that he could take charge. She was aching the whole time for him to sexually excite her, to bring her passion. She was aching for that. And he did nothing the entire time because he was that terrified of violating boundaries that were not only not there, but that she wanted him to steamroller over in a momentous tidal wave of male passion.

She was begging OP to do something, anything, to show that he actually has a strong sexual desire for her and is willing to act upon it. The 'cultural' stuff is an awful lot of absolute BS.

No wonder she went back to her ex. It's not nice or right, but it's the truth.


Hmm, you're probably right.
The OP was waiting to give him an explicit permission for sex but girls like her are very subtle in that and want the guy to 'lead' everything, he was waiting for something that will never happen.


Not many women will give explicit permission like what OP wants. They may leave plenty of hints via body language and so on, but if he is not picking up on them...

...then you may have a situation where OP is being perfectly in line and compliant, but that his girlfriend is secretly getting so frustrated that she is looking elsewhere.

It sounds as though OP wants a sexually assertive and dominant woman.

OP also probably needs to understand that male sexual dominance does not ≠ rape.

Call it what ever you want but it's not as complicated as you like to think it is.

Ask her if she wants sex.
She says yes then good, have fun.
She says no or pushes you away (like she did with the OP), STOP!

Terms like "male sexual dominance" are BS evo-psyche nonsense that PUA artist types tell themselves to justify thier predatory behavior. Shau is way better than those guys.



JanuaryMan
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25 Nov 2013, 2:32 pm

I'm not sure why you quoted me and tequila but responded to tequila only but to clarify, I never said those things.
What I did say was this:

Quote:
and don't be afraid to share intimacy with them. If they don't like it they will tell you or give you signals which you will have to figure out over time. There's always a risk we might cross boundaries that our partners might not like, but that's something you figure out together or discuss. Not doing that and not taking risks leads to nothing happening and no passion.


Am I wrong in saying couples have to discuss these things and take it from there, or with particular bits of intimacy such as making out, cuddling etc. it is a case of trial and error? Those are things consenting couples do on a whim, without asking, and have to rely on signals and the other person's word to know if it is the right time for such things. If someone is not able to read signals, then they must rely on the person's word or not bother at all. The latter, which I'm saying, will probably kill the relationship. So learning to read is essential in a relationship, Asperger's or not. A relationship requires effort on both people's parts.

Now, sure it wasn't entirely clear to begin with AND you can construe that however you want but considering you've seen my board activity for a considerable period of time, as well as the previous comments in Shau's older thread ("No always means NO!") you'd know I am not advocating what it is you say I am. Why you felt the need to advise Shau (good on you) but do it in a way which bigs you up, and puts me down as some sort of borderline-rape approving sleazeball (*sigh*) I don't know.



lost561
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25 Nov 2013, 3:48 pm

Geekonychus wrote:

Ask her if she wants sex.


Terms like "male sexual dominance" are BS evo-psyche nonsense that PUA artist types tell themselves to justify thier predatory behavior. Shau is way better than those guys.


This advice is a crock of s**t.

Don't ever do the bolded.



Ferrus91
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25 Nov 2013, 4:09 pm

Of course if you didn't have aspergers she wouldn't feel able to walk all over you in the way she did. I've noticed women will string along, play games and generally use aspergers type men because they can, because they are at the bottom of the attractiveness pile (and ever will thus remain so - only certain behavioural traits are really plastic enough to be changed in the long term). Even relatively unattractive women will feel they can get away with this too. And the idiotic aspies will generally take it all because it is the only scraps they have got. It makes me wonder whether it isn't just better to avoid the whole thing altogether.



Geekonychus
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25 Nov 2013, 4:47 pm

lost561 wrote:
Geekonychus wrote:

Ask her if she wants sex.


Terms like "male sexual dominance" are BS evo-psyche nonsense that PUA artist types tell themselves to justify thier predatory behavior. Shau is way better than those guys.


This advice is a crock of sh**.

Don't ever do the bolded.

You heard him, Shau. Just assume she actually really wants it and force yourself on her. What are you waiting for? The saying "no" and pushing your hands away is just part of the game......... Stop being a p**** and just do it! The screams mean it's working......... :wink:



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25 Nov 2013, 5:20 pm

Shau wrote:
Tequila wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
You were the rebound guy.


Er, no.

She really did like him and was desperate for him to make a move and show that he could take charge.


No that's a load of crap, whether you're right or wrong. I made a damn move, but she just wasn't responding to my moves even when she was ok with it. There was just no passion there.

And if you're right, I'm not gonna be dealing with that BS. I'll just move onto the next girl who puts me through less BS, there's plenty of them out there I should know. I've never been put through so many hoops by a girl in my life, she was really the outlier.

As a weird twist, I've been chatting with the ex-bf on Facebook, and he's telling me that he's not a playboy, and that she tends to make up lies like this when she's feeling bad, and that they didn't have sex. That's just fantastic. I don't think that's any less of a red flag tbh even if it's true.


Just reading this, it sounds really confusing. :? I think Shau she's not really into you, if she keeps rejecting you when you make a move on her. She likes you as a person, but maybe the chemistry isn't there. Like you said you have been together for 3 months and getting nowhere.... :shrug:

Maybe as a guess she want's to break up. But want's you to not like her first, by saying she slept with her ex, it will do that. So it will be easier. (well in her mind) Women are more emotional than logical.

I think she wants you to break up with her rather than her having to break up with you.

what ever man. If I were in your shoes I get out of it. To much drama for me.


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Tequila
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25 Nov 2013, 5:25 pm

JanuaryMan wrote:
Now, sure it wasn't entirely clear to begin with AND you can construe that however you want but considering you've seen my board activity for a considerable period of time, as well as the previous comments in Shau's older thread ("No always means NO!") you'd know I am not advocating what it is you say I am. Why you felt the need to advise Shau (good on you) but do it in a way which bigs you up, and puts me down as some sort of borderline-rape approving sleazeball (*sigh*) I don't know.


Indeed.

Like, for example, if you read the Reddit "missed opportunity" threads there are loads of instances in which women verbally say that they don't want sex so the man rolls over and falls asleep, leading to a very angry and rejected woman in the morning.

For instance, a woman who really likes a man might say "come round and play Mario Kart?", so the guy goes round and he plays Mario Kart. Eventually, she sighs and leans in and says "I don't want to play Mario Kart any more" and he says "oh, OK - I'll leave". Cue a woman who never speaks to him again.

Another example might be a girl who is flirting and making out with a guy all night, they go back to his place and she says "and don't try anything naughty, will you?". So he rolls over and goes to sleep. The next morning, she plays hell with him about why he didn't make a move.

For instance, if a woman you've never met before is constantly looking you up and down and offers to cook for you, along with a lot of other hints... what do you make of it?



JanuaryMan
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25 Nov 2013, 5:31 pm

It's a situation where there's a possible invitation for more to happen, but typically NT's will send signals to each other and drop hints to each other there and then to figure out where the boundary line is for that evening. It's not something just set in stone because of precursor events. Sounds complicated yes but this is why people need to learn to read signals if they want to take courting, dating, and relationships seriously. Misreading a situation, or thinking you can do X and Y simply because of what happened at Z time = big trouble!

So I'm not entirely disagreeing with you Tequila, but just saying it's usually a bit more complex than that.
Anyways I digress.

Shau, she sounds like she's too much work. And I'm inclined to agree with Mr. Bogan. At either rate, too many headgames and you probably need to find some better women to hang around with if the stories about before were true. I hope things go better for you in future.



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25 Nov 2013, 5:31 pm

Tequila wrote:

For instance, if a woman you've never met before is constantly looking you up and down and offers to cook for you, along with a lot of other hints... what do you make of it?



I let her cook my favorite meal of fettuccini alfredo with blackened chicken, play xbox until my eyelids can no longer stay open and then I fall asleep, full, content and satisfied.



I kid, I kid. :D



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25 Nov 2013, 5:32 pm

Tequila wrote:
JanuaryMan wrote:
Now, sure it wasn't entirely clear to begin with AND you can construe that however you want but considering you've seen my board activity for a considerable period of time, as well as the previous comments in Shau's older thread ("No always means NO!") you'd know I am not advocating what it is you say I am. Why you felt the need to advise Shau (good on you) but do it in a way which bigs you up, and puts me down as some sort of borderline-rape approving sleazeball (*sigh*) I don't know.


Indeed.

Like, for example, if you read the Reddit "missed opportunity" threads there are loads of instances in which women verbally say that they don't want sex so the man rolls over and falls asleep, leading to a very angry and rejected woman in the morning.

For instance, a woman who really likes a man might say "come round and play Mario Kart?", so the guy goes round and he plays Mario Kart. Eventually, she sighs and leans in and says "I don't want to play Mario Kart any more" and he says "oh, OK - I'll leave". Cue a woman who never speaks to him again.

Another example might be a girl who is flirting and making out with a guy all night, they go back to his place and she says "and don't try anything naughty, will you?". So he rolls over and goes to sleep. The next morning, she plays hell with him about why he didn't make a move.

For instance, if a woman you've never met before is constantly looking you up and down and offers to cook for you, along with a lot of other hints... what do you make of it?


Tequila I don't think so. If a woman wants you and is hot for you. It's more like she makes the first move. :lol:


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Tequila
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25 Nov 2013, 5:35 pm

MR_BOGAN wrote:
Tequila I don't think so. If a woman wants you and is hot for you. It's more like she makes the first move. :lol:


Most women aren't that bold. They drop hints and hope the man picks them up. Most Aspie men will not pick them up unless they are basically screaming I WANT SEX!! !!11111 at the man.



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25 Nov 2013, 5:50 pm

Tequila wrote:
MR_BOGAN wrote:
Tequila I don't think so. If a woman wants you and is hot for you. It's more like she makes the first move. :lol:


Most women aren't that bold. They drop hints and hope the man picks them up. Most Aspie men will not pick them up unless they are basically screaming I WANT SEX!! !!11111 at the man.


I think you are right in flirting etc when you are not BF GF. But otherwise when you are BF GF like what's the point in dropping hints. :shrug:


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25 Nov 2013, 6:05 pm

Tequila wrote:
MR_BOGAN wrote:
Tequila I don't think so. If a woman wants you and is hot for you. It's more like she makes the first move. :lol:


Most women aren't that bold. They drop hints and hope the man picks them up. Most Aspie men will not pick them up unless they are basically screaming I WANT SEX!! !!11111 at the man.



I pick up on some subtle hints but I choose to ignore them until the woman results to basically screaming I WANT SEX!!

I just prefer it that way, that way I know for sure without question.