Here we go again . . .

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Yep. He lies, but like a little kid. Painfully obvious, about minor things, to make himself look better. When I gently call him on it, he hangs his head or shuffles his feet and sheepishly fumbles through an clumsy admission. He's careful not to do things he might have to lie about later. He's highly risk-averse. He cheated on his abusive, sex-withholding ex-wife only once: to end it. So she'd find out, hate him, and leave.

I witnessed an event that, in his mind, at that moment, his whole life depended on. I thought of a dozen lies in about a nanosecond, that he could have tossed out to save his skin. But what came out of his mouth just poured gas on the fire. Blew my mind. So bad, if I'd sat down for an hour and tried to think of the worst possible thing to say, that would've been it. He just goes to pieces in high-pressure, unscripted situations.


Simple. He tells me.

The guy uses you, when it suits him, and you let him. Because you can't moan to him about it, you moan to us.

That's it.

Shut up Tequila.

I would try, but . . . how? Our Skype calls start with a few hours of sexting beforehand. Once we're on, we shift gears and talk for 30-60 minutes. About work, family, finances, culture, perceptions, memories, etc. He asks about my mother (I'm pissed off at her), and I ask about his father (who is in treatment for cancer) and his kids. He details all the places he'll be traveling and what he'll be doing, and tells me not to worry if I don't hear from him for a while. Then I notice the screen moving, and I can't see his hands . . . so then we talk about all the things we'd like to do in person, and the rest is X-rated. Once I promised him quite a show, and he called beforehand to tell me he was really looking forward to it. Sweet. We've been doing this about twice a month. Not very frequent, largely due to his jam-packed work schedule, but it feels like a relationship to me.

So when he says he just wants casual sex, it is very hard for me to believe it. Also when I've said that non-emotional no-strings sex would be fine, his reaction was negative. 1, he's repulsed by it (good), and 2, he thinks I'm not capable (probably true).

He claimed he "doesn't want to go down that road" (emotional sex/relationship), but he's already a good ways down it. He tried to have it both ways with me before, and it seems like he's doing it again. He wants all the benefits of a relationship, but none of the responsibilities. Like having to meet a partner's needs, or answer for or modify behavior that is hurtful to them.


Thank you for the constructive advice. But, I don't do booty calls, so I don't know the protocol.

I'd already decided that the next Skype call will be talk only, clothes on. And I've never been the one to suggest a meet-up, or tried to reschedule - those have always been at his initiative. Yesterday I was going to give him his birthday present. I would have had fun too, but I don't know how I can give it to him now.

Because I don't want to reschedule a meet-up. He's burned me every time. 3-4 times, he's gotten me all hot and bothered, then he flakes out, and when I ask to talk I get a load of verbal abuse. The one time he followed through, he called me 20 minutes after he left, and gave me a load of verbal abuse.

So I'm basically convinced that scheduling any meet-up will only result in something negative or hurtful, either before or after. I'd just get anxious, not excited, and I'd probably cancel, to avoid the risk altogether. I'm conditioned now, like Pavlov's dogs: when the bell rings, I get a beating. He'll have to work pretty hard to undo that, before he could convince me to try to meet up again.

I would add: this means Skype sex is basically off the table too. Mainly I liked the foreplay aspect. Fantasizing about what we'd do when we got a chance to play in person. Otherwise, he gets a lot more out of it than I do.

In August you said you hadn't had sex for 16 years, and then when you did meet up that month you didn't have sex, although you were hoping to. Since then it has been sexting and Skyping, according to your posts here.

You say "hassling" never enters the picture, but it looks like sex doesn't either - unless it's at a distance.

I've had a look back, and you just keep going over the same ground - all the time.

What do you get out of this?

I would suggest following the same routine you guys typically do up until a point. When he wants to go on screen and get X-rated. Just tell him that you can't. Tell him that when you guys start the on screen you start looking forward to irl sex too much and end up disappointed. Be the sexy kind of pouty about it. Tell him its like cumming without CUMMING, you know? Almost like a mental blue balls.



From my experience (which is very much like yours) I would believe him. You are right. He does NOT want casual sex. If he did, he wouldn't seek it with you, someone he KNOWS is very much in love with him. If he wanted casual sex and has a big member and a salary over a million dollars, I'm sure he could find it very easily if he so desired.

But here is the situation. He neither wants truly casual sex nor does he want a relationship. THIS RIGHT HERE IS HIS TRUTH! Please do NOT skate over this. This is his real truth. This is what he CAN handle. If you've read some of the books and information out there you will have read about the many men on the autism spectrum that want companionship and sex at their convenience. It is up to you whether you can deal with this. This may change in the future. This may not change in the future. But THIS is your present.

So my advice on this... If you still want to deal with him then do it on those terms. Do not give him any more or less. That means no hint or whiff of relationship talk, no anger if he doesn't show or lets you down. Your goal is to create a safe place for him. He has to feel like he isn't hurting you and like you aren't going to hurt him. So to prove he isn't hurting you, you simply can not show the hurt.

Is this fair to you... nope. Not at all. But its up to you whether it is worth it to get what you want.

My belief is that if he feels he can safely have sex with you without giving you false hope or expectations and without having to be subject to anger or disappointment, he may be game.



I think the fact that you are more concerned with giving him his birthday present than he is in getting it should tell you not to worry about it. He's an adult, just like all of us, and we're all okay with getting belated birthday presents. Also, he knows that you are more invested in it than he is and that is likely why there is some hesitancy.



This is the only part of your story that does not at all resemble my experience. I never got verbal abuse. I do not know why your guy would go crazy on you after a good experience. I don't know if you somehow brought up a topic he would rather avoid or expressed discontent with him. But if you think you would cancel then do NOT make plans. Though he has cancelled on you, I am pretty sure that he would be completely unforgiving if you were the one to cancel on him.

she is going to wear us out before she wears him down

Yes. His work and travel schedule is insane. He's pushing himself especially hard right now, trying to make as much money as he can. Why?

What I don't understand is if he doesn't want to be with you, why does he call you then and get in touch with you? I wouldn't let anyone treat me this way, I would just push them out of my life and ignore their texts and phone calls and emails, etc. It's either you want to be with me or you don't, not you want to be with me and then not want to be with me. I did block someone online for a behavior he was doing, he said he didn't want to be my friend and he was taking me off his list but yet was still talking to me just to fight so I blocked him because he was taking too long so I did it for him. He was a bad friend anyway. He may have just trying to manipulate me again and it backfired and I don't care what his intentions were. I don't want to play his games. Could this person be playing a game with you?

Why don't you be honest. If a guy tells you he wants to break up politely, it isn't an invite to try and get a guy that has been through that to go through it again. This guy hasn't had enough time to heal. You need to give him up, even if it means to another lady. He may never want to be with a girl again. Or he is just a pervert using you. Both ways to get out of there. (I'm not going to try and bad mouth him or you, but walk away)

JinNJ: A thousand thank yous. This is very, very helpful advice.

Ok. This is exactly what I'll do. And it has the advantage of being true.



The concept of a middle ground between not casual sex, but not a relationship either, is difficult for me to understand. But based on other things he has said in recent months, I know you are exactly right. And it explains how I have felt like he wants me to be Schroedinger's cat: dead and alive at the same time. A relationship when he wants it, but not when I want it.

I have sensed/intuited that these are the rules. But I wasn't sure. I have been wanting to ask him what the rules of engagement are, because I feel like I never get it right. So to be told explicitly that these are the rules . . . wow, yes, very helpful. At least this way I can give informed consent. Or not.

I already do most of these things, and did back then too. Even the "sanctuary" concept. The difference between now and then is, I am certain I am the only woman in the picture right now. Back then, I was not willing to do all this, AND share him with another woman. In a closed community under close scrutiny, being judged and pitied and laughed at. Much different situation now.

And I've been happy with the arrangement the last couple of months. If we could just keep doing what we've been doing - plus IRL sex from time to time - I'd be very happy. The only things I'm unhappy about are (1) the way he flakes out on IRL sex (or the tirade afterward) and (2) his nasty reaction when I naturally get upset and want to talk for a few minutes.


Yes. Exactly my assessment too. When he melted down in August, he accused me of having a stereotypical view of relationships. I thought, WTF?! I've been Little Miss Unorthodox my whole life. But this helps me understand what he meant.


Oh s**t, I don't really care about his birthday. My birthday is the only holiday I care about, and I think it's neat that our birthdays are only a week apart. It was to be a mutual birthday party. But I was just trying to be nice. He knows he'll get his "birthday present" whenever he gets his dork ass over to my place.


I think I said something that triggered his nasty call after he left. I told him I thought both our lives would be better if we'd stayed together all along. I think it's an obvious truth, and I didn't mean anything by it other than "I've really missed you." But, I know he is furious with himself for marrying "a monster" and reproducing with "an animal." But he does not react well to the idea that his life is a mess because he blew it with me. Even though he did. Four times. But I screwed up too, so. I've just been careful to avoid the subject, which seems to be the right call.


Oh yes, I know. I already assumed as much.

JinNJ, I can't thank you enough. This is exactly the advice I was hoping to stumble across. I feel like I keep breaking the rules, but he won't tell me what they are. I just needed to know if there was a way to avoid the verbal abuse, and a way to gain some assurance that he won't flake out or blow up on me, if we reschedule. And it seems there is.

Given where things stand, how should I convey to him that I get what the rules are now? Hell, I feel like I've achieved enlightenment. I don't want to contact him for a while, nor do I expect to hear from him for a while. What would you recommend?

Last edited by waitykatie on 03 Dec 2013, 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

This is a terrible thing to think about anybody. Please, do yourself and him a favor and leave him alone. This is not love. I very seriously doubt you love him, just by the things you've said here.

Oh c'mon. No, it's not nice, but I think it's manifestly true. Besides, that remark is just as much a comment on the shallow, superficial city we live in and the grasping, judgmental bimbos he's likely to meet, as it is on his behavior. I can imagine him in plenty of other places where I'd have a lot more competition.

More to the point, I already suppress so much of myself and my needs, precisely because I love him and want to make him happy. I'm still allowed to be human and have private outlets where I express my feelings and frustrations. He will never come to WP, not anytime soon, and I would never, ever say such things to him or anyone he knows or might meet. But I don't have to be Mother Freakin Teresa all the time.

Such remarks are also meant to throw a bone to those who think I should run away, just so it's clear that I DO understand where they are coming from.

I am not saying you do have to be Mother Teresa all the time, but everything you've posted about this guy is nothing but a criticism and judgement of him. You haven't said one kind thing about him. That's not love. That is why I sincerely doubt that you truly love him.

Again: this is what I was looking for. Pure gold. Bless you.

I am excited to finally get some clarity, but also for another reason. I've had grave concerns about a "real" (more conventional) relationship with this guy. His ex-wife is a volatile, substance-abusing, full-blown borderline. She will go supernova upon finding out there is a new woman in his life. God only knows what she'll do. She might drag him back to court, or come after me, or commit property damage, or try to physically hurt someone, or even slaughter my beloved cat. Sounds crazy, but that's what she is. She is cut out of the same cloth as the psychopaths on ID. I've worried about how to tell him, I want to be kept secret for as long as possible, to protect us all. The arrangement we've had neatly resolves that issue.

Also, the kids are aged 10 and 12. I have no interest in raising another woman's children, especially since they have got to be screwed up. I care about them, and I'm interested in them, and I'd gladly help them, if called upon. But it still hurts that he had children with someone else. I'd be just as glad not to get involved. The arrangement we've had neatly resolves that issue too.

So is a "Schroedinger's Cat" arrangement fair to me, or worth it to get what I want? Given the broader circumstances I would face, in a conventional role as the Evil New Woman and step-mother . . . holy hell, I'd give my right eyeball to avoid all that. He may get to avoid responsibilities, but so do I. I hadn't considered it this way before, but the trade-offs would be very worth it.

Now I'm feeling dumb. I've been the one screwing things up, haven't I?

See my many other threads for so much love, adoration, and worship, you'll barf.

There was a time when he doubted me too. Pissed me off. So I spent 3 months writing a 400-page book about our romance, had it printed on fine stock, hard bound, tied with a scented pink ribbon, and made two copies. I gave him one and kept the other. He didn't doubt me after that. No PDFs, sorry.