Women changing men.
mouthyb
Deinonychus
Joined: 5 Aug 2013
Age: 49
Gender: Female
Posts: 323
Location: Somewhar dusty and hot.
Opinions will differ on how to best show through actions, but for me the act of talking to me and paying attention to me is pretty important as a way to show interest. The person I'm currently dating actually started debating me, so I don't have to be agreed with, just paid attention to. Other actions include smiling at me, sitting near me if given a choice and otherwise seeking out my company. I'm a little dense on the subject, so at some point someone will have to say something, but the name of the game is convincing me that you think I'm worth paying attention to, if that makes sense.
I'm definitely at an empathic handicap (I score 144 on the alexythymia test, way into the "what's that emotion" range). The empathy I can display is highly cerebral and purposeful--which is why deliberately paying attention is how I can be 'with' others. If I am paying attention, I am taking notes and what comes out of the other person's mouth, as far as I'm concerned, is exactly how they want to be treated. I compare this to my minimum standards for treating people (cobbled together from observation and ethics readings), and take the most generous of the standards. I know empathy is supposed to be natural, emotional and require no particular thought, but it does for me. Listening is a way for me to have something which I would not ordinarily be able to mimic.
I appreciate the effort in others for that reason. If someone's paying attention to me, I assume they're going to some effort to do so, and I count it as special and valuable for that reason. People do not often pay much attention to each other, so it's really a bonus.
Another observation from a friend who is more 'normal' in some ways than I am: I've complained to him that I don't understand why people don't tell me what they want, or react poorly to me telling them what I want. He observed that in the larger culture, being too straightforward can be read as insulting: either because it's read as uncaring of the emotions of others or because it's viewed as a way to say that you're too busy to bother with the normal routines (and that you think you're really important.)
I wonder how much of what I view as game-playing is a combination of social preferences not to 'expose' oneself by being too up front about one's needs (and risking immediate rejection), politeness, and the desire to 'test' the other person's understanding of you?
_________________
RAADS-R: 181
Eye Expression Test: 19
Alexithymic: Please explain conclusions if asked
The feels are shipped in by train once a week--Friday, I'm in love.
mouthyb
Deinonychus
Joined: 5 Aug 2013
Age: 49
Gender: Female
Posts: 323
Location: Somewhar dusty and hot.
Eureka: It's really frustrating, too, because I know I shouldn't assume that people are rational and reasonable, but damned if that isn't where my head goes whenever I'm surprised by something (and in general, as a default). So many bad things that have happened to me wouldn't have if I was able to be suspicious of others. I really wish I was. ![]()
_________________
RAADS-R: 181
Eye Expression Test: 19
Alexithymic: Please explain conclusions if asked
The feels are shipped in by train once a week--Friday, I'm in love.
Yep, if I hadn't assumed that about people, I wouldn't have married my ex-husband, and he wouldn't have spent all my money. I should have been able to retire a few years ago - as it is now, I'm looking at having to work another 10 years.
Trying to avoid something like that happening again when I go back out into the dating world - of course, it *can't* happen again, because I no longer have any money for someone to sucker me out of! ![]()
The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 44
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 33,677
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.
An example: let's say that I go out on a date with a guy. If any of the following occurs, I am highly unlikely to believe that I will be able to be a person to the guy I'm on a date with (all examples are from my experiences on dates.)
1. He asks me why I'm not a crazy b***h like all other women are.
2. He is completely uninterested in anything I have to say and talks over me.
3. He tells me that I can't do something I can do because "girls don't/can't do that."
4. He treats me like I'm made out of glass and/or a danger to myself (takes sharp things away from me, acts like I'm a child.)
5. He tells me what I should like (eg "women should like makeup/dresses/etc").
6. He makes all the decisions without consulting me.
7. He decides that we'll be having a certain kind of relationship without consulting me (trufax--I went out on a few dates with one guy over two months and he invited his parents over to meet me without telling me and insisted that I meet my new family.)
8. He speaks condescendingly to me.
9. He treats me like a sex vending machine ("I paid for dinner, so now we have sex." It's why I almost never let men pay for me.)
10. He attempts to get sexual with me without asking or even checking to see if I'm up for it.
11. He spends the date talking about his ex or some other woman in his life.
Any of that sh** happens, and I'm out of there. I should note I've had both nice men and bad boys do the previous, but at least with bad boys I can get laid if I'm willing to put up with it.
I'd prefer sex focus with the ability to listen to me and treat me like an individual. I can't speak for all women, but I'd like some demonstration of the other person being attracted to me at some point in the date. In some ways, your prototypical bad boy is at least very up front about the sex part of it--I don't have to guess why he's on the date with me, or try to perform an end-run around being treated like a mother, sister, the Virgin Mary or a figurine on a shelf. Nice men who engage in those behaviors treat me poorly AND I don't get laid or any sort of signal that they're attracted to me, which blows.
The common thread there is a lack of listening, a lack of consideration and a lack of willingness to pay attention to me and the things I say. If I don't have those things, I might as well be a rack of lamb in a dress (an object)--no thanks.
Where do you find your guys? In sewers?
The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 44
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 33,677
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.
Woman on the other hand, marry a man thinking he has the potential to be turned into something she actually wants......................men do not change.
Show me the boy and I'll show you the man.
Sometimes I meet middle aged couples where the wife is a snarky know it all. I think to myself, she must have been stunningly beautiful when she was young. How else would he have fallen for such a horrible person?
Or she was expert in giving blowjob.
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Im confuse,women want guys to be that direct,is that what Im doing wrong.
Next time I go on a date with my lady friend,or whoever,I should go ''let's have
sex''like right away.Really?,I don't know
mouthyb
Deinonychus
Joined: 5 Aug 2013
Age: 49
Gender: Female
Posts: 323
Location: Somewhar dusty and hot.
Name of Boo: Actually, I usually find them at my university. Several of the things on that list came out of the mouth of a math PhD, a few more from a fella in my program, some from dates with people I've met through student groups, etc.
These are young, upwardly mobile professional types. The sewers were not involved.
_________________
RAADS-R: 181
Eye Expression Test: 19
Alexithymic: Please explain conclusions if asked
The feels are shipped in by train once a week--Friday, I'm in love.
.
Im confuse,women want guys to be that direct,is that what Im doing wrong.
Next time I go on a date with my lady friend,or whoever,I should go ''let's have
sex''like right away.Really?,I don't know
No. Unless that is all you really want.
_________________
comedic burp
These are young, upwardly mobile professional types. The sewers were not involved.
you date your students?
mouthyb
Deinonychus
Joined: 5 Aug 2013
Age: 49
Gender: Female
Posts: 323
Location: Somewhar dusty and hot.
billiscool: Not necessarily. I'm very specifically talking about people who are either not being honest (they want a sex-only relationship but are pretending to want another kind of relationship) or don't know how to express what they want (they may think they want a relationship, but their interactions with me are all sh***y and/or sex-only focused.)
Next time you go on a date, talk to and listen to the person you're on the date with. That's really the bottom line I keep trying to express here. Talk to and listen to the person you're on the date with. Treat them like they're worth listening to. There really is no secret formula for getting laid and/or instantly finding a perfect relationship, but at least making a conscious effort to communicate and pay attention has a chance of being interpreted well.
_________________
RAADS-R: 181
Eye Expression Test: 19
Alexithymic: Please explain conclusions if asked
The feels are shipped in by train once a week--Friday, I'm in love.
mouthyb
Deinonychus
Joined: 5 Aug 2013
Age: 49
Gender: Female
Posts: 323
Location: Somewhar dusty and hot.
billiscool: No, I date other people in my program or in other graduate school programs. I'm in grad school (for my second Master's degree.)
_________________
RAADS-R: 181
Eye Expression Test: 19
Alexithymic: Please explain conclusions if asked
The feels are shipped in by train once a week--Friday, I'm in love.
mouthyb
Deinonychus
Joined: 5 Aug 2013
Age: 49
Gender: Female
Posts: 323
Location: Somewhar dusty and hot.
mouthyb
Deinonychus
Joined: 5 Aug 2013
Age: 49
Gender: Female
Posts: 323
Location: Somewhar dusty and hot.
billiscool: I date across the university's grad programs, meeting people through classes taken together/projects worked on together (I take classes in three departments and also tutor for several departments), employment (say, the IT guy where I work), student groups (I'm an atheist, and there are atheist meetups), and friends. I used to have a profile on OK Cupid and I met one person through it whom I still contact, and I was brutally honest on my profile.
Let me put it to you this way: how many times a day do you feel like no one listens to you or understands you? How excited would you be to be on a date or even just hanging out with someone who asks you questions about your interests, carries on a conversation about them or is interested in learning about them, listens to your bad day story and otherwise behaves like your ideas and opinions are worth listening to?
Hint: most people are VERY excited to be paid attention to, and I'm insatiably curious, so it works out for both of us.
_________________
RAADS-R: 181
Eye Expression Test: 19
Alexithymic: Please explain conclusions if asked
The feels are shipped in by train once a week--Friday, I'm in love.
