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mouthyb
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05 Jan 2014, 4:07 pm

aspiemike wrote:
1. Even if you don't tell the girl your intention right away, if you can show by action that you are interested and attracted to her, she is more likely to say yes to a date when you find the courage to just ask


Opinions will differ on how to best show through actions, but for me the act of talking to me and paying attention to me is pretty important as a way to show interest. The person I'm currently dating actually started debating me, so I don't have to be agreed with, just paid attention to. Other actions include smiling at me, sitting near me if given a choice and otherwise seeking out my company. I'm a little dense on the subject, so at some point someone will have to say something, but the name of the game is convincing me that you think I'm worth paying attention to, if that makes sense.

aspiemike wrote:
2. Talk to them and listen to them as they need you to. Its fundamental in being empathetic.


I'm definitely at an empathic handicap (I score 144 on the alexythymia test, way into the "what's that emotion" range). The empathy I can display is highly cerebral and purposeful--which is why deliberately paying attention is how I can be 'with' others. If I am paying attention, I am taking notes and what comes out of the other person's mouth, as far as I'm concerned, is exactly how they want to be treated. I compare this to my minimum standards for treating people (cobbled together from observation and ethics readings), and take the most generous of the standards. I know empathy is supposed to be natural, emotional and require no particular thought, but it does for me. Listening is a way for me to have something which I would not ordinarily be able to mimic.

I appreciate the effort in others for that reason. If someone's paying attention to me, I assume they're going to some effort to do so, and I count it as special and valuable for that reason. People do not often pay much attention to each other, so it's really a bonus.

aspiemike wrote:
3. (this is just my own opinion and some interpretation). People will play games and assume that others know what the game is. Clearly, men do this based on what I have read. I have met women who play games as well. But why do people play games? We will never find a clear answer to this, but it usually makes me feel confused and miserable when I'm engaged in such a game (doesn't matter who initiated it.)


Another observation from a friend who is more 'normal' in some ways than I am: I've complained to him that I don't understand why people don't tell me what they want, or react poorly to me telling them what I want. He observed that in the larger culture, being too straightforward can be read as insulting: either because it's read as uncaring of the emotions of others or because it's viewed as a way to say that you're too busy to bother with the normal routines (and that you think you're really important.)

I wonder how much of what I view as game-playing is a combination of social preferences not to 'expose' oneself by being too up front about one's needs (and risking immediate rejection), politeness, and the desire to 'test' the other person's understanding of you?


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mouthyb
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05 Jan 2014, 4:17 pm

Eureka: It's really frustrating, too, because I know I shouldn't assume that people are rational and reasonable, but damned if that isn't where my head goes whenever I'm surprised by something (and in general, as a default). So many bad things that have happened to me wouldn't have if I was able to be suspicious of others. I really wish I was. :(


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05 Jan 2014, 4:33 pm

Yep, if I hadn't assumed that about people, I wouldn't have married my ex-husband, and he wouldn't have spent all my money. I should have been able to retire a few years ago - as it is now, I'm looking at having to work another 10 years. :?

Trying to avoid something like that happening again when I go back out into the dating world - of course, it *can't* happen again, because I no longer have any money for someone to sucker me out of! :P



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05 Jan 2014, 4:58 pm

mouthyb wrote:
onewithstrange: It's a combination of things--treating me like all women are the same and ignoring any differences between me and any other woman, telling me what my opinion and thoughts are and ignoring what I say and do, treating me as if I cannot know or understand the events occurring around me, etc.

An example: let's say that I go out on a date with a guy. If any of the following occurs, I am highly unlikely to believe that I will be able to be a person to the guy I'm on a date with (all examples are from my experiences on dates.)

1. He asks me why I'm not a crazy b***h like all other women are.
2. He is completely uninterested in anything I have to say and talks over me.
3. He tells me that I can't do something I can do because "girls don't/can't do that."
4. He treats me like I'm made out of glass and/or a danger to myself (takes sharp things away from me, acts like I'm a child.)
5. He tells me what I should like (eg "women should like makeup/dresses/etc").
6. He makes all the decisions without consulting me.
7. He decides that we'll be having a certain kind of relationship without consulting me (trufax--I went out on a few dates with one guy over two months and he invited his parents over to meet me without telling me and insisted that I meet my new family.)
8. He speaks condescendingly to me.
9. He treats me like a sex vending machine ("I paid for dinner, so now we have sex." It's why I almost never let men pay for me.)
10. He attempts to get sexual with me without asking or even checking to see if I'm up for it.
11. He spends the date talking about his ex or some other woman in his life.

Any of that sh** happens, and I'm out of there. I should note I've had both nice men and bad boys do the previous, but at least with bad boys I can get laid if I'm willing to put up with it.

I'd prefer sex focus with the ability to listen to me and treat me like an individual. I can't speak for all women, but I'd like some demonstration of the other person being attracted to me at some point in the date. In some ways, your prototypical bad boy is at least very up front about the sex part of it--I don't have to guess why he's on the date with me, or try to perform an end-run around being treated like a mother, sister, the Virgin Mary or a figurine on a shelf. Nice men who engage in those behaviors treat me poorly AND I don't get laid or any sort of signal that they're attracted to me, which blows.

The common thread there is a lack of listening, a lack of consideration and a lack of willingness to pay attention to me and the things I say. If I don't have those things, I might as well be a rack of lamb in a dress (an object)--no thanks.


Where do you find your guys? In sewers?



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05 Jan 2014, 5:00 pm

hurtloam wrote:
Nambo wrote:
I read that a Man marry's a Woman because he Loves her, therefore he doesn't want her to change into anything else, he wants her to remain the woman he loves, ..........they change! so the man has to spend his time down the shed to avoid this person his lovely wife turned into.

Woman on the other hand, marry a man thinking he has the potential to be turned into something she actually wants......................men do not change.

Show me the boy and I'll show you the man.


Sometimes I meet middle aged couples where the wife is a snarky know it all. I think to myself, she must have been stunningly beautiful when she was young. How else would he have fallen for such a horrible person?


Or she was expert in giving blowjob.



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05 Jan 2014, 5:10 pm

mouthyb wrote:
prototypical bad boy is at least very up front about the sex part of it--I don't have to guess why he's on the date with me, or try to perform an end-run around being treated like a mother, sister, the Virgin Mary or a figurine on a shelf
.


Im confuse,women want guys to be that direct,is that what Im doing wrong.
Next time I go on a date with my lady friend,or whoever,I should go ''let's have
sex''like right away.Really?,I don't know



mouthyb
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05 Jan 2014, 5:14 pm

Name of Boo: Actually, I usually find them at my university. Several of the things on that list came out of the mouth of a math PhD, a few more from a fella in my program, some from dates with people I've met through student groups, etc.

These are young, upwardly mobile professional types. The sewers were not involved.


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05 Jan 2014, 5:15 pm

billiscool wrote:
mouthyb wrote:
prototypical bad boy is at least very up front about the sex part of it--I don't have to guess why he's on the date with me, or try to perform an end-run around being treated like a mother, sister, the Virgin Mary or a figurine on a shelf
.


Im confuse,women want guys to be that direct,is that what Im doing wrong.
Next time I go on a date with my lady friend,or whoever,I should go ''let's have
sex''like right away.Really?,I don't know

No. Unless that is all you really want.


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05 Jan 2014, 5:16 pm

mouthyb wrote:
Name of Boo: Actually, I usually find them at my university. Several of the things on that list came out of the mouth of a math PhD, a few more from a fella in my program, some from dates with people I've met through student groups, etc.

These are young, upwardly mobile professional types. The sewers were not involved.


you date your students?



mouthyb
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05 Jan 2014, 5:19 pm

billiscool: Not necessarily. I'm very specifically talking about people who are either not being honest (they want a sex-only relationship but are pretending to want another kind of relationship) or don't know how to express what they want (they may think they want a relationship, but their interactions with me are all sh***y and/or sex-only focused.)

Next time you go on a date, talk to and listen to the person you're on the date with. That's really the bottom line I keep trying to express here. Talk to and listen to the person you're on the date with. Treat them like they're worth listening to. There really is no secret formula for getting laid and/or instantly finding a perfect relationship, but at least making a conscious effort to communicate and pay attention has a chance of being interpreted well.


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mouthyb
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05 Jan 2014, 5:20 pm

billiscool: No, I date other people in my program or in other graduate school programs. I'm in grad school (for my second Master's degree.)


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05 Jan 2014, 5:30 pm

mouthyb wrote:
billiscool: No, I date other people in my program or in other graduate school programs. I'm in grad school (for my second Master's degree.)


are you like the only female in the group.



mouthyb
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05 Jan 2014, 5:35 pm

billiscool: No, 56% of my program is female.


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05 Jan 2014, 5:40 pm

mouthyb wrote:
billiscool: No, 56% of my program is female.


ok.so do you date every guy in your classes or group.



mouthyb
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05 Jan 2014, 5:46 pm

billiscool: I date across the university's grad programs, meeting people through classes taken together/projects worked on together (I take classes in three departments and also tutor for several departments), employment (say, the IT guy where I work), student groups (I'm an atheist, and there are atheist meetups), and friends. I used to have a profile on OK Cupid and I met one person through it whom I still contact, and I was brutally honest on my profile.

Let me put it to you this way: how many times a day do you feel like no one listens to you or understands you? How excited would you be to be on a date or even just hanging out with someone who asks you questions about your interests, carries on a conversation about them or is interested in learning about them, listens to your bad day story and otherwise behaves like your ideas and opinions are worth listening to?

Hint: most people are VERY excited to be paid attention to, and I'm insatiably curious, so it works out for both of us.


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05 Jan 2014, 5:55 pm

Mouthyb: your an atheist,are you a feminist and liberal too.