My Way or the Highway

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WHAT?!?!?!?!? That's a TERRIBLE ultimatum! See bolded text. Why did it happen the first time? No, strike that…why are you still hanging around after the first time?

I'd make that a condition of the relationship from the outset, and for most folks these days it's understood: If you ever hit me, it's over.

Should be: "If you hurt me, we're through".

Well, let's be honest…there is such a thing as forgiveness. If my wife were to ever leave because I "hurt" her, I'd be a single man since, well, we probably wouldn't have gotten married. We're all human, we make mistakes, we "hurt" others whether we mean to or not.

But hitting someone? That's not an accident. I've hit my wife before and don't mind admitting that. We're still together. Why? Because I was swatting a mosquito. It smarted. She gave me an ugly look. I showed her the mess on the palm of my hand to prove I was trying to do her a favor. She laughed. Life moved right along.

The thing is I'm not trying to control or manipulate my wife, she's not a punching bag when I'm angry (whether I'm angry with her or not--and it's been extremely rare for me to even be angry with her), and…well…we just don't do crazy stuff like that. Whether someone can be forgiven for striking someone is going to depend on a whole lot of circumstances, and I'm unsure how hitting your SO can ordinarily be accidental. Every situation is different. But as a very general rule, it's poor judgment that allows someone to stay with someone who is physically abusive.

No, an ultimatumm gives you an expectation and tells you the consequence of not meeting that expectation.

The fact that you can choose not to meet the expectation in an ultimatum doesn't mean the other person is offering you more than one option. (Technically, the other person cannot give you the choice of refusing to meet their expectation, because it's not theirs to give -- it belongs to you.)

If someone tells me, "Spend Christmas with me at my parents' place or forget about seeing me ever again" that person is giving me one option (their expectation that I spend Christmas with them at their parents' place), and telling me what they will do if I refuse that one option (break up with me -- the consequence).

The offer of two options as part of a discussion about compromise would be more like, "If you spend Christmas with me at my parents place this year we can do whatever you want for Christmas next year" or "If you don't spend Christmas with me at my parents place then I want you to spend New Years with me at their place."

Sometimes, the only major difference between an ultimatum and simply ordering somebody around is that with an ultimatum it's always acknowledged that the other person may refuse to do what's been demanded. (You can't lay out the consequences of not meeting a demand unless you accept the other person's refusal to meet the demand as a possibility.)

Ultimatums are not a clear invitation to talk about compromise -- they are usually used to indicate that negotiation is over or is not going to happen in the first place. If you don't believe me, look it up in the dictionary. Mine defines ultimatum as: "a final demand or statement of terms, the rejection of which will result in retaliation or a breakdown in relations".

I'm with Fnord on this one.

Also, chances are there was more to his decision to leave than just this ultimatum. He was likely on the fence about their relationship as a whole and this was just the last straw & his exit cue. Good for him for being decisive and taking action.

As for the girlfriend who gave the ultimatum… if she intended to open negotiations, it was a very poor tactic.

On this, we agree. The rest is mere quibbling over the legalistic details.

I think ultimatums should only be used as an absolute last resort. Also, both people should be very careful when even suggesting one, because raw emotions will interfere like crazy.

Just remember, fellow men: Women are like elephants. They never forget.

It does . Although I've only used it when I wanted to break up with someone. It's awesome for that as male pride mostly means they'll choose the breakup option most of the time. Its an easy way to get a guy to agree to a breakup with no avenue for backing out of it. Discussions and 'breaking up' speech are a lot less clean. They try and get you to not break up, no because they want you, but because they want to look for another partner prior to leaving. Sod that. If we're over, we're over. Pack your gear and get out.

For someone like me, it's always been about having an unhealthy attachment to someone. It's taken me several years being married and being out of the dating game to finally wrap my brain around it. There's nothing wrong with asking for an explanation for why someone is leaving you. But I never could understand when I got that explanation that fixing or changing something wasn't an option, so I never handled breakups very well. My last ugly breakup experience was with someone who must have been the girl that "Blank Space" was written about, and I swore I would NEVER end up in a situation like that with a girl again. It's a long story I won't go into again. Suffice it to say, I refuse to stay in relationships with women who are manipulative players who don't even know what they want, or who are abusive and use ultimatums like dog leashes. Since then there have been two women I was briefly involved with who, while having some good relationship potential, were really just bad news and I couldn't see how the relationship could possibly go in a positive direction. We ended on friendly terms. It can be so hard sometimes to not only see and understand the disasters approaching, but to accept that disasters are imminent and inescapable.

Nobody wants to be the one who gets left, which is understandable. I believe that everyone should have an exit strategy going into serious relationships. Why? Because your Magic 8-ball doesn't have all the answers. Even my wife and I have discussed what would effectively destroy our relationship, and for us it would be extremely difficult to even get into those situations. But all the same, we know what would happen should something horrendously catastrophic relationally happen. Dating relationships are much more volatile, so mentally and emotionally it's best to be prepared for the relationship to end at any moment.

I've said this elsewhere and it bears repeating: All relationships WILL END. You will either walk away or you will die. There's no escaping that. You don't do yourself any favors neglecting this little fact of life. You should have a positive way of dealing with being separated from your partner before the relationship even starts. Worst case scenario could land you in prison or potentially something worse if you don't handle it appropriately.

For me, it's about having an unhealthy detachment from people. It's very difficult for me to be emotionally invested in any kind of relationship or person. Sure company is nice to have around but once the strings of attachment start flying I just want out of there.

Yes all relationships will end at some point.

This.

I had constructed this conversation to demonstrate a plausible scenario where both sides are understandable, but in which the woman's ultimatum seemed more justified, and where we might sympathise with her more. However I had expected more of you to view it the same way I would, since I would certainly have sympathised with the woman's position. I would also consider the man's behaviour to demonstrate a lack of seriousness and commitment. I would definitely not behave like the man did in a relationship with anyone I was serious about.

He has cancelled their plans and let her down in favour of both his friends and of spending more time with his brother. He could have just made do with getting an early night and spending time with his brother along with the rest of his family on Christmas Eve. He could have said no to his friends or just showed up a bit later after getting some rest. Or he could have put some extra energy in and made everyone happy, even if it meant being more tired by the end of it. But it was clear that his girlfriend came last on his list of priorities, meaning he neither valued spending time with her family, nor cared about making her happy (she had made it clear that this really mattered to her) enough to show he was serious about the relationship.

Her wording is still confrontational and her ultimatum might seem extreme to some. However if she really meant what she said, it was not wrong for her to effectively lay out the facts for him. And the man's actions seem to me to be enough to justify her breaking up with him.

No, he did not cancel their plans, he simply refused to be part of her plans.

She offered him two choices: (1) Spend the holidays with her family or (2) End the relationship.

That she felt the need to issue an ultimatum implies to me that she wanted nothing to do with him if he wasn't going to obey.

That he chose the second option implies to me that the relationship was not a pleasant one for him.

Apparently, the relationship had devolved into being all about what she wanted from him, and to Hell with what he wanted.

In any case, the holidays are over, and I hear that she has a new man-pet in tow.

In my example it was implied that he had already arranged to spend Christmas day with her family and was cancelling it, though evidently this was not the case with the real life ex-couple.

By the way, I am with you insofar as I absolutely resent ultimatums being casually used as a bargaining tool, especially if this is done routinely.