Why do people engage in fornication before marriage?

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You must understand that I am a virgin as well as a bachelor; to be indulging in any physically intimate relations in the context of a committed loving relationship, acknowledged before the world, would probably be an improvement, though as I said I hope she would enjoy it. Actually, kissing, embracing and caressing would make a pleasant change! There are other things to be considered, and I have trouble understanding why one would make it a dealbreaker when the lovemaking could always be improved with practice.

You don't know what you don't know.

Having sexual chemistry and compatibility is something that's pretty crucial to most relationships. If it's missing or not quite right, it's simply not likely to work out long term.

Or people could try some elementary self restraint and patience! At least it would be worth the wait. Of course one might never marry, but one can still live a meaningful and fulfilling live and be of use to one's fellow human beings; there are other things in the world! I am not saying that it is invariably easy ((it is not consistently, at least for me) but surely it would be better than many of the alternatives? There seems to be so many destructive consequences. It is to some extent academic to me; while I have many female friends, I actually do not know exactly how to express a romantic interest without coming across as either too intense or too flippant.

I am a forgiving sort but we live in a mercenary culture that is always trying to get better than it rates. virgins are dismissed because people want better [experienced sex partners] and generally aren't willing to cut anybody any slack, aren't willing to give anybody a hand-up.

Would not the lack of chemistry have become evident at any stage of the courtship prior to marriage? With regard to the intimate relations, surely this could be worked out together so you could both improve your technique together. Surely it would be foolish to reject an otherwise wonderful spouse or lover (surely they must be wonderful to you or why would you be with them) on the basis of one lousy experience!

Speaking for myself, I would prefer not to have my already intense performance anxiety heightened by the thought of previous, more experienced lovers! I suppose we come at the issue from a completely different angle, given the differences in our experience of such encounters.

Also, if a spouse or lover had previously been with other partners, would that not affect trust? How could one be certain that one would be more fortunate than one's predecessors?

good point in light of America's 90% 2nd and subsequent marriage divorce rate. americans are so picky, aren't they?

And contrary to the cliché, not all men wish to have a succession of encounters without commitment or stability or even love. Of course not everyone shares his views; neither do all share yours. If you are allowed to take offence at his views, why are you so quick to condemn him for taking offence at actual behaviour? I take your point though; I actually find the "women only interested in babies, men only in sex" cliché quite offensive as well. Speaking for myself, I would love to be a father, and equally there must be many woman who have no desire to bring a child into an already densely populated world.

Not if you're a sexual person. There are certain things I like/dislike about sex, and don't see myself partnering up with someone who doesn't like the same things. It just isn't likely work out as sex is a pretty crucial part of a relationship vs. friendship.

Real world example: A crush I've had for years (a friend), who isn't sexually attracted to me as I'm not their type, well during some fairly surface level conversations about sex here and there over the last few years I've learned that they like some things I do but don't like some of the things I like most.. so it got me thinking that maybe it's best that we're not compatible in terms of a relationship as we make much better friends than lovers. IF we were a couple AND they never grew to like the things I do, well, sex wouldn't be all that fulfilling with them. I'd like to be completely compatible with a partner, including sexually. I've had enough sex to know what I like and that I'd like to look forward to it with a committed partner vs. fantasize about doing those things with someone else because my significant other literally just doesn't do it for me.

But that's me & everyone is different. Others may not place a very high value on sexual compatibility.

You can't. It's part of the fun!

You can work hard on yourself and your relationship, though. If you've given it a full effort & things don't work out, then they weren't meant to be.

I think it's becoming increasingly rare that two people only ever sleep with one another in their entire lives.

But I am a sexual person (inasmuch as I have desires and fantasies, not experience). As I have said, if I ever marry it would be personally important that the experience be mutually enjoyable. If anything, it would be more important that she enjoy it (if she had particular requests, I'd be happy to consider them) not wishing to sound needy, but I think I'd probably be overjoyed to be with someone. I realise that there may be a danger in some cases of "marrying in haste, repenting at leisure" as they used to say, but that is part of the reason why it is important to get to know someone really well as a friend and being sure of my feelings before even asking them out (obviously it can get frustrating if repeatedly someone has asked out my beloved before I have worked round to declaring my affection for her ). I think I am in such a different worldview; I have trouble understanding a lifestyle so removed from my own. To be blunt, I have already intentionally limited my options based on certain principles; why would I further restrict my options by insisting that my prospective spouse share my every fantasy? To be honest I prefer relatively chaste fantasies like kissing and so on; more overt sexual fantasies actually do not make me feel good. I would also prefer for the initiative to be more on her side; even with flirting I am not comfortable being too forward. I would worry too much about making her uncomfortable; besides, I am sufficiently vain and lazy to imagine I would probably prefer being seduced by my wife (should I ever happen to find her) than being too aggressive. I also think that it would be important to respect her wishes as to when she might feel in the mood. I suppose I must come across as a bit naïve and unworldly in some ways to you.

I suppose at least I could claim to be rare then! To be optimistic, there may actually be many advantages to having waited. It's something to look forward to, and if I never marry, well, neither have many others historically, and it is still possible to live a fulfilling life and help many people. I hope that I am not starting to come across as too preternaturally virtuous; I have faults like anyone. I can sometimes be quite envious of men who do know how to persuade a woman to think of them as a potential lover or spouse rather than just a friend, and I have a history of getting quite obsessive when I am infatuated or in love with someone. This must be quite difficult for a woman to deal with (having an unwanted suitor for a friend). Neurotypical females in particular seem to have an almost telepathic ability to discern that you are interested in them romantically or sexually, and it must be very uncomfortable to know how to let me know that they do not reciprocate the feelings (or already are with someone) without hurting my feelings. I had a very bad experience (at least the early stages when I was 15 years old were actually very pleasant, but it ended badly when I was 18) with an unrequited infatuation/affection for a girl, with my ending up feeling quite manipulated, and I think that I allowed it to overshadow my subsequent amorous interest in women as an adult - though two subsequent times were in some ways easier because they were friends, and I think also rather nicer people than the earlier object of my affections, but also in some ways worse, as I felt guilty about making two such nice people feel in any way uncomfortable, as well as continuing to desire them after I learned that they were already with someone - they are both married and mothers now, and seem happy. Clearly abstinence does not doom one to perpetual solitude, at least not necessarily!

I agree with this and I am married (over 10 years). You can discover and refine technique over years inside of a loving, committed relationship. It's a nice way to do it.

Except human beings are not animals. We were created in the eyes of God. Also, I think maybe my question is rhetorical in a sense, that I know some people just have sex "for fun". I guess that's why its an alien concept to me. I plan to get have sex when I get married. I am a 36 year old virgin.

being 36 years old, you have a decade or two left before it withers on the vine, at least that has been my experience. as you grow older without having used the equipment, it WILL get rustier and rustier, IOW "use it or LOSE IT." or else, by the time somebody suitable enters your life you might not be able to rise to the occasion, because of this phenomenon.