'Not Sure' girl loves a probably autistic man

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Having experienced too many situations where it really did turn out that "he's not that into you" -- or into me at all, ever, I tend to believe the gloomy side of this stuff: That if someone says they're not interested in something more with you, believe them, and move on.

I've also had someone pursue me whom I was not interested in, but they had the optimistic "I'll win you over in the end!" mindset -- and it just annoyed the everloving crap out of me. They did not win me over in the end, they just got me eventually telling them to fck off in no uncertain terms, having been polite and nice for too long while they didn't "get it."

So, from both sides of the experience, I tend toward telling people to give up if someone says they don't want what you want with them.

That's exactly the reason why I am so afraid to keep this going. He might act out of friendliness, not knowing how to deal with it in any other way, but slowly building up disliking or agression.

Eitherway he one day bursts out in anger and scares the hell out of me. Or he will shut down, blocking not only me but everything in life (and I am to blame then) until someone close to him finds out it is me bugging him still... and then I'm toast. Going from 'the nice geeky chick' to 'the freaky girl that didn't know when to stop' is horror to me.

Thanks. These answers need to be there as well. Brings me back to earth.

That's where I'm at, now. Hope I sense his 'natural interaction' right.

This metaphor is *very, very, very helpful to me. Thanks, thanks so much.

I will. I have my life, he knows, but once in a while I send him a card from where I'm currently traveling. It's just not that I want him to travel with me. I want him to know that he can be part of my happiness without having to tag along. Would that be the right way to 'swim around' without splashing him or forcing him to speed up?

Exactly, I've heard him say that a few times. 'If I make you feel unsure or sad, turn away from me.'
Well, by now, I've been the one keeping contact with him, so he can certainly conclude that I don't feel unsure or sad in his presence.

I have shown sadness during our last dance, and that is maybe something I should explain to him. I was not sad because of his presence, I was sad because I had to keep distance and leave him behind. I can understand now that he might have misinterpreted that then.

So I just should remember that when seeing him again, I should show happiness, not sadness. He won't understand why I'm sad around him and will believe he invokes it.

That's valid if they can say it with nonverbal communication, but might not be if they only say it verbally.

That's also why I proposed to test it with flirting. If he can ignore that, then it would indeed be better to move on, otherwise he simply is not truthful about it, for whatever reason.

Well, then my hopes are good. I have already tested that by accident, last dance event. He flirts with me.

It started out somewhat stupid. I was out of hearing distance and said to a friend 'He and I, we always muddle through - but it always turns out right' - mentioning how we dance and communicate. So she calls him over, I felt like a stupid cow. She asked 'is that true?' and I had to repeat my joke, which made him smile. And then he insisted on speaking with me. So we walked outside (it was a warm evening) and what followed was a witty conversation about what I intended to achieve with him, and whether he could be more harsh on me, reject me more than he did until yet. He said he could never be meaner to me, played tricks on me, made jokes. Made eyecontact, stood close to me, mirrored my pose.

I mean, that is flirting. Other guys have done that with me and I recognize it as flirting, as showing your funny and good sides, making someone like you and invoking reaction of the same kind. We had a pretty good conversation with small geeky jokes and all. Then we walked back inside and as we were doing nothing anyway, I asked him to dance, which he accepted.

So in body language he was flirting. But during the conversation, I mentioned that right that moment, he acted romantically to me. He looked surprised, told me that he was not aware of that, and looked even a bit embarrased, said he wasn't sure if he did that to all people he spoke to.

Now recalling that night, I couldn't take my eyes of him so I watched him a fair bit. He usually stood leaning against the wall, or stood still, talking with girls and guys. He did not repeat this animated way of talking he had done with me. So I suppose he doesn't do the 'romantic, flirty' talk with everyone he talks to.

That sounds like flirting and general enjoyment of your company to me. I would say doing this is "coaxing" but even mentioning romantic feelings or actions is a "splash." To your previous post, I would say that any time you say (or write/text, send a postcard) something along the lines of "hey, thinking of you" is coaxing and not a splash.

I'll keep that in mind. I gave his Instagram a 'Like' today, I think that's enough 'hey I'm thinking of you' for today.

Meanwhile I would like to ask him so much - how his holiday was and all, but I'm so afraid he won't answer that I won't even write him. A day will come when I can ask him in person.

What I need to learn is to have patience. Maybe not only for him, but just, in life. And while I practice that I can figure out if he would fit my current, and pursued, lifestyle. I wonder what I end up with.

I am pathetic. I want to take care of him. We are both very interested in a very specialized thing, which is kind of how we met. I would like to work with him as an equal, then I would like to go home and cook him dinner because he doesn't cook for himself. Then I want to cuddle with him on the couch while watching a movie and then fall asleep with my head on his chest listening to him breathe.

I think he's gotten used to being alone and hiding all of his compulsive tendencies. I know that it's hard to open up to someone when you are set in your ways and afraid of being judged. I worry that he will never see me as a partner. His whole identity is wrapped up in being the smartest person in the room and any time I come close to being as good as he is, he retaliates and tries to put me back in my place. I think he's afraid if I get as good as he is that I won't want to talk to him anymore because he will no longer have anything to offer. It's starting to grate on me. I don't want to be a bonsai tree and purposely stunt myself to keep his ego secure.

I know I probably want something I probably won't get. I have to figure out what I can live with.

The trouble with flirting is that even that doesn't always mean the person does actually want to take the situation further.

I know that sounds crazy, as flirting is the main "language" of "I like you and am attracted to you and therefore I want to go further at some point!"

But some people really are capable of being flirtatious while still holding no intention whatsoever of proceeding toward a further involvement. Even some guys! Even just sex.

Seriously, I've had this happen to me. A guy who was part of a group of friends of mine was seriously flirtatious with me, but it turned out he had a drop dead gorgeous girlfriend and wasn't even interested in pursuing anything with me, not even a fling (which I wouldn't have wanted anyway, but just to illustrate). He didn't even seem curious; he truly was content with his girl and I think all the flirting with me was just -- I don't know WHAT it was, but he sure did play with my heart.

Meanwhile I had fallen in love with him. I never let him know that, although probably he had a good idea. I learned from that whole thing that there really are some people one is never going to have a relationship with, even it seems like all the chemistry is there.

Don't be so sure that returning flirting behavior is an indicator that there's hope; I've had flirters who are for sure pursuing me but I've also been flirted with long-term by someone with zero intention of it meaning anything.

I wasted a year of my life wondering about that guy, picking over every detail of the latest flirty encounter we had, talking to gal pals on the phone about what everything he did or said really meant.

Honestly, sometimes it's really not worth it. If someone is being mysterious, seems to go hot and cold, flirts but claims he isn't interested, and you are picking over every detail, in love and wondering and losing sleep and questioning where this is going ---- it's not going anywhere.

It really is best to cut your losses, relegate him to a friend and nothing more, and move on to a new guy who knows right away he's interested in you.

I once read a quote from a famous woman -- I can't remember who she was but it stayed with me for forty years, because at the time I read it, I was in love with a boy in school who gave me the emotional runaround.

She said: "A hard lesson I learned is that truly good relationships happen easily -- it's the bad ones that are like wading through molasses."

What she meant was not that good relationships are necessarily easy to find, but that when you do click with that right person, it should be mutual, and when it's mutual there are usually no roadblocks, humming and hahing, or anyone telling anyone it's a no-go, or anyone having to pick over the meaning of everything that happens or is said.

When that stuff is happening it's a sign that the whole thing is more trouble than it's worth -- get a guy who wants what you want, with you, and it all just happens without this agonizing.

There really is truth in that corny book "He's Not That Into You" -- I never read that book but I heard all about its premise, and what that guy who wrote it said is all true. If some guy is back and forth and you're rationalizing it with "Oh he just doesn't know what he wants" -- NO. He really just isn't as into it as you think he is.

A guy who wants something with you starts something with you. A guy who doesn't, doesn't.

And definitely, if you are starting to feel you have to stunt your intellect in order not to make his feel threatened, that's a total red flag! Why would you even want a guy like that, a person who wants to be smarter than you and "puts you in your place" when you show that you are his equal???

Holy guacamole!! !! That's NOT a good guy to let get under your skin the way he is. If this were me I'd seriously be nixing my feelings for him and moving on bigtime.

That is true, but I think when this happens they still are interested in you, it's just that they are tied-up elsewhere and unable to take it any further. You can easily find this out by checking their relationship status, just like you did in the above case.

Another real possibility with a neurodiverse guy is that he is blocked from making further contact, so he really wants to pursue it further, but he just can't. This typically happens when the girl is totally passive and expect the guy to do everything. In order to advance here, the girl must change her mindset and go half the way, otherwise it won't go any further.

In the present case, I think it is safe to assume that the guy is not tied up elsewhere (perhaps except for an old ex).



Typical dating also goes wrong (pretty frequently even), so I think you need to expect a few problems with this too. It doesn't mean it is unusable.



That doesn't look like a good thing though. People like that can typically be exposed by seeing if they are flirting with everybody or just you. Going between hot and cold usually is related to that.



I think the problem is that he is really special in multiple ways, so it's not just so that any other guy can just replace him.



But I don't think he is back-and-forth multiple times. Doesn't look like it from the description.



That's definitely an attitude that will make you unable to get a neurodiverse guy, because it is totally wrong.



I doubt he have done anything of the sort.

Aha -- but we all believe that the person we are interested in is "really special in multiple ways"!

There's the rub! Nobody develops feelings like this, and spends this much energy on thinking about a guy (or girl) unless they DO believe "this one is really special."

I thought my flirtatious guy was really special too, possibly "The One" and oh how amazing we would be together, and oh, I'll never, never find in anyone else this amazing set of qualities I find in him!

That's the problem -- everyone in the world who gets hung up on someone tends to believe this. And it's never actually true. There is always someone else on the planet as "special" as that person. I've learned over years that they are never that "special" after all. It's all just the brain chemicals of infatuation that make us believe that about a person.




Errr, actually, the OP came right out and said he did exactly that.



She said, herself, that he seems to want to be "the smartest person in the room" and every time she shows herself to be on some kind of equal footing there, "he retaliates and tries to put me back in my place."

WHUUTT?? Jesus, if any person is doing that to me, I'm outta there. Seriously. That's fcked up.

She even says that this aspect of him is "starting to grate on me. I don't want to be a bonsai tree and purposely stunt myself to keep his ego secure."

Does that honestly sound like a prize to you? This guy is beginning to sound like a bit of a jerk, when the OP reveals things like this she's experiencing from him.

Sheesh.

One of my biggest regrets about the most active dating years of my life is that I spent time pondering and worrying over some guy EXACTLY the same way the OP is doing here. I know these feelings well. And of the relationships I've had that successfully became a relationship for any duration -- even my marriage -- NONE of them started like this.

With the "Saw him today, what does it all mean? He did this thing....he said this thing...what do you think? Should I...will he?.....how does he feel? What about?....when will i see him again? why doesn't he...? do you think he will...."

None of the times this stuff was happening turned out to be anything but wasted time with a guy nothing ever happened with.

Look, I get that this guy is said to be on the autism spectrum so things are "different" -- but there are some things universal to humans -- and this bull crap dancing around and flirting yet saying "I don't want anything" is one of them.

This stuff has little do with whether this guy is spectrum and everything in common with any time any human in the world has been more interested than their crush is in them. It's universal and old as time, spectrum or not.

I wasted aggregate YEARS of my younger life agonizing over someone it never happened with, while the relationships I did get to have happened with people who were right there on the same page with me from the start.

At 53 I look back and shake my head at my younger self for not knowing when to call it quits on the ones who were "not a chance in hell" for one reason or another.

I just can't stand to see young women now repeating my mistakes over something that will never be.

I have lived long enough to know something of this nature when I see it, now, because I've had to learn this very lesson.

And I'm not going to argue further about this, because I KNOW what my opinion is and your debating with me is not going to change what I truly believe is the prognosis here.

You can throw my quotes back at me and debate every point -- I don't give a s**t and you're not going to get anywhere with me. Don't waste your energy, I know what I think about all this. I'm no kid.

I've seen it ALL before and nothing can persuade me that a little "patience" or whatever is going to get this guy and gal their happy ever after.

I'm sorry but it's all not going to happen and the OP KNOWS this. She just has to face up to it.

It's all brain chemistry and it's all misleading.

OP, please don't waste your loving feelings on a person who just isn't in it. The REAL stuff with someone who really wants you doesn't come this hard, I don't care who the hell he is.

Yes, but it was me that wrote that, not the OP, and I don't have a crush on him.



Sure, but it is extremely enjoying to be involved in, so why not take the chance when it appears? You don't need to be so serious with it like "this is the guy (girl) of my life", you can think of it as "this is a real special guy (girl) that I want to know".



What's wrong with that? That's how you work when you are really obsessed with somebody. I does not harm, and in fact is pretty enjoyable too.



Well, for me it did. I got married.



That's you. I also wasted (bad term, but anyway) years. However, I don't see why the "effectivity" parameter of relationships makes much sense. For me what matters is if I enjoy it or not, and a crush and obsession like this is so HUGELY enjoyable that it beats everything else. Just finding a girl "just like that" and then "living happily ever after" sounds extremely dull and boring. Not my kind of thing at all. Zero on the enjoyable scale.



Same age here, and it still makes me warm and fuzzy when I think about old obsessions like that. It's the best memories I have, so why would I want to change anything even if I could?

I also had a relationship much like the one you describe as your "ideal" around 29, but I don't think a lot about her, and regard it more or less as a bad experience only.

No I'm sorry, you are mistaken. You quoted Utena's post, not mine.
My crush is intelligent, but in no way unfriendly or on a different level.

I don't want to be hard, but please check who you quote.

I have no such experience.

I do recall the opposite; a relationship with a roommate who was reluctant to show interest at first, but we got together eventually. It lasted for a year, we split up, didn't see each other for 4 years, and now he has become my best friend. We see each other nearly every week and I couldn't wish for a better person to rely on.


Well, that's your advice from your experience. I'm not being blind here. I wouldn't have come here would it all have worked out smoothly. I admit I need experience of others to get a better idea of whether, and how, to be on this any longer.

The more I understand his way of thinking, the less I feel rejected - so thanks to all who gave their insights. Of course, there is a good possibility he does reject me for other reasons than his own 'social shortcomings' or auti aspects. However, as you could have read in my opening post, the signs are that he is interested in me, though not ready for it, and he is slow to open up to new chances. If that is the case, then I'm not going to be the one rejecting him.

The only thing here is that I need to learn to have patience, and you are far from the first to say so. His close friends already gave it a good chance as long as I would have this patience and understand how he thinks. Now I'm just happy that I can speak my mind here every now and then, and be held back when I - too soon - try to contact him again.

If he, in the future, admits to regular contact, I know most troubles are gone. We have had good contact with no blockings whatsoever. I know I can be level with him and even more. So I'm not afraid of the 'what's next' part, not at all - on contrary.

I want to stress that I appreciate your take on it, and that I should not be blinded by dreams and illusions. But I come from different experiences. I have no regret in whom I fell for during my teens and twenties. I have always felt I've gone after good guys and they could have played a part in my life. The only things I sometimes regret are the extreme things like dressing 'slu*ty' or dancing too close to them - persuasion on the wrong aspects. I did it because I was young and unaware, but not unaware of them; but unaware of how to attract a man decently. I can smile at it, at my young and wild me, and I hope you can try to look at it the same way for yourself. It's all a path of learning!

Just want to say I appreciate being able to talk about this with other people. I have a lot of thoughts in my head that I needed to organize.

I am realizing that I want my person to be someone they are not. They might be that person in a few years, but I need them to be that now.

I was willing to give up a lot of things I knew this person would never be because I have an idea about who I think they are. You shouldn't do that. It's always easier to fall in love with an idea of who you think someone is, because an idea is perfect and infallible.

I have mentally decided to move on. I am going to try and date other people and just keep this person as a friend. I am not going anywhere for a while. If he wants to do something, then he can bloody well make a move. I am not going to force him into being with me because I am awesome and I can find someone else.

This is a hard step to take, but I am taking it. Thanks for the insight and showing me that, yeah, he's kind of a jerk!

I suppose that in your case it might be the best thing to do.

Though I'd say not to call him a jerk for it. He hasn't reacted in the way you hoped, but he has done you no harm on purpose.

Neither can I blame my crush at this moment. He has told me multiple times he just cannot hurt me (verbally, or physically), he just cannot. He stated explicitly he sees no need in antagonizing. Neither do I. He's so awfully sincere on that point, it almost hurts