It will not work...it can't work..

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21 Jun 2016, 1:43 pm

I think you are referring to Al Azhar in Cairo.
It was eatablished in 970 tho.
But it was purely a school for clerics for centuries, teaching islamic jurisprudence, quran... etc.

It was only much later that real sciences were introduced to it by Gammal Abd el Nasser in 1961.

So it wasn't a real... university before that.

underwater
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21 Jun 2016, 1:50 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Eventually all my coworkers knew that I am atheist, even the muslim ones - but they're all well educated and elite engineers, designers and IT, it was a safe environment, there was no problem; and they were in the 30-50 range meaning atheism isn't something alien for them, communist and leftist movements were very popular among the muslim community back in the 70-80s.
My lady friend is mid 20 and she doesn't recall the era of the red flags at all. She was born in the time of increasing religiosity.

I find it scary how the islamists are rewriting history, and everybody lets them get away with it. You get these teenagers convinced that they are defending their culture, which in their adolescent minds is a static thing. Meanwhile, Granny doesn't dare admit she spent the 60ies wearing knee-length dresses and shaking her ass to pop music.

Sorry about the digression. Rambling. Maybe you could introduce your friend to modern history?

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kraftiekortie
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21 Jun 2016, 1:51 pm

I sense that this is similar to some of my girlfriends who were religious, and knew that I wasn't religious.

My wife believes in God, Jesus, and some African things (no matter how much she denies it!)--but she doesn't go to church too often. She doesn't try to impose her religion upon me, either.

You do have to stick to your guns about what you believe in. You're not married yet. If she's influenced by French culture, I find that she won't be extremist about Islam, in the sense that all non-Muslims are supposedly infidels. Even if she feels strongly about her religion.

If you want to know the truth, most universities in Europe during Medieval times were similar to Al Azhar, in that they were schools for clerics, too. Monasteries provided quite a bit of the grammar school, pre-university education in those times. This was the state of affairs until the Renaissance (though religion still played a great role in the curriculum). The true secular movement in education took place during the 18th century Enlightenment.

One thing you can say about Nasser: he was truly a secularist. A nationalist. I remember hearing about him growing up. His Vice President was Sadat.

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22 Jun 2016, 3:11 am

Mr.Boo, pursue her until something dramatic happens.

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The_Face_of_Boo
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22 Jun 2016, 3:40 am

Drawyer wrote:

Mr.Boo, pursue her until something dramatic happens.

kraftiekortie
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22 Jun 2016, 6:53 am

She must be really pretty----you lucky dog you!

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22 Jun 2016, 7:17 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

She is my best friend; so cutting contact with her is out of the question.
We didn't bring up the subject of a serious relationship; but here we are, still... going out togother just the two of us on like every weekend. She is still very obviously interested and getting more fond of me.

When I think of telling her, I keep thinking more of the
"Don't open a door you won't be able to close" - Egyptian proverb.

I wonder if I did already open it.

It's open already if you're pondering it like this. Sounds like you're just delaying the inevitable by not discussing this with her and causing extra grief for yourself in the meantime.

The_Face_of_Boo
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25 Jun 2016, 9:09 am

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Her gradfather died few days ago; the condolences part was awkward for me(I know her brother too), as usual, I had no choice but to go "with the flow" at times, while she was there and knows my reality.

Condolence terms and etiquettes are so related to god and religion; literally there's no single condolence expression in Arabic that doesn't have the word of Allah or Rabb (ie, may Allah be mercriful to his soul, may Allah compensates you...etc).
Not that only, but during the funeral the cleric would at times ask the audience to stand up and do the prayers - I know the words and the gestures and all....but I have no faith in them at all. So much fakery from my part but what else can I do.
"Little" things like those make reconsider again.. and again...infinite loop.

She texted me today telling me she wanna have a fresh air outside after iftar tonight(ramadan dinner); no way I would say no in such circumstance.

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29 Jun 2016, 3:09 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

So I had an iftar (the dinner meal that muslims take at dusk time to break their fasting) with my...I can't know whether to call her my close lady friend or girlfriend or... I dunno anymore - but let's say she's too affectionate with me to be seen by her just as friend (in brief, it's complicated). I knew her since 2012 - within a tiny group of friends sharing common interests - however we were going out extensively very lately just the two of us; like countless of times, and she's the one who is initiating most the times.
Needless to say, I almost know everything about her, she even knows that I am atheist. In fact, among my whole social circle; she is the only person besides my parents/siblings and my atheist coworker who knows that about me. I admit I am kinda attached to her too; we do share a lot of interests.

Anyway, she is a devout mulsim, like... very devout - she doesn't wear any veil but she does not drink, nor she accepts any drink on a table she shares, she only goes to women-only pools, prefers women-only gyms...

Anyway, during the dinner she dropped a bomb question of akwardness: "don't you feel any curiosity to try fasting again and get the feeling?" - it got me awkward and I was like "you know I was used to fast as a teen so I still recall how it is like".

It was so awkward. Does she still hope me to return to her faith?

And honestly what makes things worse I do have a problem with Islam, I... do not respect this religion and despise Mohammad's teachings but she doesn't know that side about me. Islam is the only religion that I really cannot find anything in it to respect.

I feel like I am dragging myself and her to something that won't work... I don't know what to do.

I am kinda torn, feeling I am wasting time and my hair is getting greyer.

She couldn't be that devout if she is associating with a man who is not her close family member and not her husband. I wonder if she asked though, because possibly she would like to marry you?

We have a lot of inter-religious couples in my family and it works out fine provided you respect the other person in their beliefs.

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29 Jun 2016, 2:20 pm

In most cases I know, when talking about mixed secular-religious couples in any religion ( or in a muslim case متدين وعلماني,) it's obvious who's gonna settle more or in other words "give up" on a few things... I've seen it work, but not from my personal experience though. Usually people with similiar interests and opinions fit each other and are likely to get along in the long run...

If my girlfriend was religious I wouldn't go out with her. Whatsoever. It's a completely different mentallity. They have a path set and we have our own. I don't want to marry right now at 22, I already had intercourse, dont want 8 kids, wouldn't wanna put any religious clothing on me "for her", etc ,etc. Most religions in general are anti-women actually.

The_Face_of_Boo
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29 Jun 2016, 2:27 pm

Chummy wrote:

What? Which is going to give up? o.O
But I agree, usually one of them gives up for the other.

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29 Jun 2016, 2:41 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Drawyer wrote:

Mr.Boo, pursue her until something dramatic happens.

Are you afraid that once you give dating her a chance you won't be allowed to break up because of outside interference?

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The_Face_of_Boo
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29 Jun 2016, 2:47 pm

TheSpectrum wrote:

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Drawyer wrote:

Mr.Boo, pursue her until something dramatic happens.

Are you afraid that once you give dating her a chance you won't be allowed to break up because of
outside interference?

If I commit with her for any kind of relationship, then she would certainly ask me to meet her parents to make things official (pre engagment..).
The words boyfriend/girlfriend don't exist in her dictionary - only friends, fiancé and marriage! *gulp*

TomS
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29 Jun 2016, 3:13 pm

Compromises work. If this lady could accept you being Atheist and accept you may never change that... (and vice versa) and could you go thru the motions for her, so that others would not know and avoid her having to deal with endless questionings from family friends, etc.

When dealing with the world I see it as just another mask. And they are needful at times and preferable to losing ones head. It would only be faking if you tried to deceive this lady. Something that would never work anyway.

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