Masculinity issues in society

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lidsmichelle, many women mock the type of men you are describing - they call them metrosexuals.

And generally, they are not seen too positively by women - based on what I hear from many of them.

[quoteThis is Australia, we aren't Europeans, though it seems we're becoming this way.[/quote]

Gotta love a little subtle racism.

I'll take a cultured European any day.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend you hurtloam, I just thought some male grooming habits, specifically the one's I dislike, were inspired by some parts of Europe? Is that not the case? I see David Beckham having the look I'm talking about, though he still manages to look quite masculine.

I've just heard a lot about French cultural grooming habits for example to be a lot more 'Metrosexual'.

If not from Europe it must have come from somewhere.

Historically, some past male fashion trends in Europe may have been considered 'feminine', at least for me.



Men wore wigs or styled their hair long and in ponytails and buns and all that. They dressed colorful and extravagant. Think of all the 16-1800's fashion of men.

But trust me, we're very racist.

Racism against Sudanese people is common, as is Lebanese, referred to insultingly as 'Lebos', Indian people are referred to with the endearing term of 'Curry-munchers' and usually stereotyped as incompetent (this is what I always hear whenever someone ends up dealing with an Indian man or woman in a service of some kind e.g. doctors, customer service positions, taxi drivers, etc. "We get stuck speaking to dumb curry-munchers" according to my Mum).

But don't assume for a second I agree with any of this.

Lots of racism here by the ignorant against 'Those pesky immigrants' who are all 'coming here to take all of our jobs and take over the country' and apparently the government is 'just letting them all in just like that and giving them a free house and job and land'.

It's all statistically been debunked, the majority of refugees are detained in unsuitable living conditions on Nabaru island or wherver it's called, an island just north of here. It's inhumane.

The minority that make it through are given the very basics and low-quality housing/etc. regarding assistance from the government.

For everyone's sake here, please don't assume Australia is multicultural or tolerant. Far from it. There isn't even enough respect or rights for the Indigenous people here, why would Australia have any more respect for that which is considered strange and foreign?

Anyway, with regards to masculinity, I just always thought of Australia as this place that managed to keep traditional masculinity in modern times, and by that I mean the 'good' aspects of masculinity and not the bad, but masculinity seems to be associated with misogyny. Just my opinions alone on an ideal woman will get me a lot of flack when I don't mean to oppress the woman I end up with if I ever do end up with one.

It just seems a bit narrow minded to me to say that only one way of being is "masculine" we're the macaronis actually considered effeminate? I'll have to Google that.

Most of those guys with the wigs were quite masculine, perhaps overly so; they used to fight lots of duels in those days.

In fact, that's what would happen if anyone called them effeminate.

lidsmichelle, since hygiene is that too important for you, I am curious to ask you: Do you use the bidet? (or at least do you wash the ....private parts after toilet use?)

It's a sort of what I call 'traditional masculinity' that I place high value on, and feel is lacking in today's world.

I think the best type of masculinity in a modern society would be combining the best of modern masculinity with the best of traditional masculinity.

These are all just my thoughts, disagree with them if you will. But I've seen masculinity, modern or otherwise, demonized too much to stay quiet about it.

Same thing with femininity as well.

I'm all for women having equal rights and opportunities as men, and men having equal rights to women, but not at the price of sacrificing our modesty and integrity, which I feel is lacking in today's extremely liberal generation.

Being masculine doesn't mean some stupid, brutish, aggressive oaf, it means being polite, and chivalrous, a leader, or a loyal follower. A hardworker, ambitious and dedicated. This is all just in my opinion. Femininity to me also shares many, but not all, of these traits. At least half of the things I consider 'masculine', I also consider 'feminine', which is my way of saying I don't always believe the genders are that different at all, but the differences still exist. A simple one being men are more inclined to be logical, women emotional.

Anyway, for me, masculinity also means to love and support those who depend on him. But, of course, he depends on his wife and children just as much as they do on him.

Traditional men may have been the breadwinner who put food on the table, but where would he have been without a wonderful wife supporting him and making him feel loved, and both his wife and children giving his life meaning, purpose, and people worth fighting for.

I know, I know. Women were oppressed in the past, women were controlled by men, but we don't necessarily have to sacrifice the traditional household to give women equal rights.

A man who chooses to work and a woman choose to be a housewife should be equally acceptable as a man who chooses to be a househusband and a woman to work, or for both to choose to work, in today's society.

When it comes to duels, I do think there's nothing necessarily wrong with two men agreeing to a good fight. Violence should be a last resort to solve issues, but if two men consent to do it, than more power to them.

But if they're going to fight, do it in an organized and structured environment with rules and regulations.

It's a world of difference two men having civil discussion when there's an issue but deciding they will resolve the issue by challenging each other to a duel at a later date or, better yet, a boxing/wrestling match in an actual ring with a hired referee of some kind, and two men in the streets aggressively spouting obscenities at one another and then starting an unprovoked punch-up on one another.

I think violence between two people, regardless of gender, will always exist. But if we are to ever commit violence, let it be in an organized event.

This doesn't include criminals assaulting/robbing you, etc.

Of course criminals aren't going to respectfully challenge you to a duel/competition of some kind.

But two friends arguing to the point they both won't be friends anymore need not solve the issue by getting their friends and assaulting them gang style, starting back-and-forth feuding.

Just one good civil, agreed to fight, may the best man win, whoever loses need not be embarrassed because they fought valiantly, shake hands and leave it at that.

Maybe I'm seeing the past with rose-colored glasses to think two men could ever handle conflict, even violence, with such civility.

Still, even challenging another man to a duel, while resulting in one man dying, has some honor to it. They both follow the rules and do things properly, instead of just gangsters of today pulling a knife or gun out and going all-out on each other, and only hurting both of each other more than they ever would if they instead challenged each other to a planned boxing match.

BOO:

I'm a little surprised some of the women here appear to be supporting the idea of rising beauty standards for men.

It's not a black-and-white men must look like Ken Dolls or be dirty grubs thing - there's a middle point.

I understand if women want men to take care of their appearance and hygiene better, because let's face it, some males do have very poor hygiene and I come across it all the time with family and friends, but why would they support the idea of beauty standards for men being just as hard as it is for them?

I'd rather we go in the opposite direction, and have a society where beauty standards for both men and women are 'lower', and by lower I mean realistic instead of unrealistic, instead of actually making it harder for men too.

For many decades, women have suffered from self-esteem issues, body image issues, and eating disorders, but recent studies are also saying plenty of men are suffering from these things too and these things are on the rise for both genders.

A recent problem men are facing is the opposite of anorexia - bigorexia.

Just like anorexics who think they are fat when they are very skinny, men have a distorted image of their body and think they are extremely skinny and weak, when they may actually be normal-sized or even very strong.

Some of the most obsessed resort to steroid abuse to gain muscle size. Mn are now influenced by fashion industry and magazines and such as much as women are nowadays.

Why should we make a generation and society striving for perfcection in looks instead of going for the opposite direction and simply finding beauty in the plain, the realistic, and the ordinary?

I don't think a man applying moisturiser is an over the top beauty standard. Although, men do tend to have more moisture in their skin than women anyway.

I don't think my peers have changed much, they still look vaguely the same. Still using hair gel like they did in the 90s. Mostly they are more hairy because beards have become fashionable.

In the 90s i liked Nines Crane. I wanted a guy like him.

Turns out I like someone a bit more rugged, who uses moisturiser I might add. A soft cheek is kinda nice for a cuddle. I braced myself for a prickly cuddle, but was pleasantly surprised.

But don't feel like you have to live up to that lol.

The real problem isn't looks it's interaction.

If a man is too weird in the way he talks and what he talks about that's a big turn off for me. I like quirky, but there's a line.

I haven't paid much attention to this thread. I wonder how it got to how we clean up after pooping.

You know how things progress on WrongPlanet. We are creative people. We diverge from the topic at hand, frequently.