Should me and my ex-GF go to couples counseling?
AngelRho
Veteran
Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,366
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile
Oh, I didn't mean that YOU were gathering information----I meant that when you told her, you wanted to hit her, SHE would use that against you; it made you SUPER-vulnerable, because then she knew what buttons to press, in the future.
Yes I apologized to her literally everyday since that happened a few months ago, cause I felt so bad about it.
Okay, you've got to STOP that, IMMEDIATELY----cuz, again, that "arms" her; she knows that all she ever has to do, is say: "Oh yeah, remember that time you hit me?", and she'll get you to bend to her will, very easily.
To answer your other questions:
1. The only time I have ever hit someone before was when I was about 11. There as a bully picking on me all the time in school, and I eventually snapped and hit him after, I had enough. But I haven't hit someone out of anger since then, up till a few months ago.
That's fine----bet he never bullied you, again!
2. I am not afraid of getting another gf. I think it is possible. But after making mistakes in the past, I am afraid of making future mistakes. Mainly in the past I have made mistakes including bad career choices, and that fear of making mistakes, perhaps may have transferred over to relationships. I am afraid of making bad life mistakes in general now. I am confident of getting other women. I have done it before, but a lot of times women are looking for flings, short term relationships, or maybe long term but it doesn't work out. I felt I had a lot in common with her. But I could get other dates if I wanted to and am confident in that department alone.
That's understandable----anytime one makes a bad choice (whether, regarding a career or relationship, or anything else), it'll make them gun-shy the next time, around.
3. Yes I can write down all the things I want in a relationship.
Okay, good----I hope it helps you as much as it's helped me, when I've had to figure-out stuff.
4. I can make a list of things I have learned from this one as well. I actually have been replaying a lot of the things that she didn't agree with her things that upset her in this relationship, and I replayed in my mind how I think she should have reacted and felt towards me in those situations. But I don't want a girl to have to agree with everyone that I am and submit to me as well, if I am doing something that is too much about me either, if that makes sense.
Yeah, I totally get what you're saying----it's no fun being with someone who doesn't have their own mind, goals, dreams, etc.
It's good that you've been replaying everything, cuz that's the only way, IMO, to figure things out. I always suggest writing things down, cuz it involves more of our senses----you SEE your thoughts, more clearly; you have the FEEL of the paper and pen (or, whatever instrument you choose); and, to me, it is a more organized way to engage you cognitively, and hopefully, you'll remember it better.
I haven't gone back to her. She keeps emailing me telling me how I am her soulmate and how she cannot eat and keep any food down, since I have left. She keeps wanting me to give me another chance, and is willing to be okay with the things that she was not before, which I felt was a good sign maybe. But I have not gone back to her. But I cannot help but feel sorry for both of us, and feel compelled to do something to get her to move on, or make her feel better, since she is taking it so roughly.
I feel badly for both of you, TOO----but, here's the thing..... She would sell her own MOTHER down-the-river, to get back with you (meaning, she would tell you ANYTHING). She's most probably lying about the not being able to keep food down, and stuff----that's pretty much a "standard line", for any girl that gets dumped (even, some guys).
Here's the thing, with narcs..... They've always got someone waiting-in-the-wings; and, it's quite possible that the only reason she's working so hard to get you back, is cuz she's already trained you----with somebody else, she'll have to start all-over, from scratch.
The only thing you can do, IMO, is to STOP ALL COMMUNICATIONS, with her. You have to think of YOURSELF, as well----emailing, isn't helping YOU move-on, EITHER; and, your feeling like you should do something to help her..... Isn't that the way you ALWAYS feel, after talking to her? She knows----she knows what buttons to push----she knows the way you think----she KNOWS what'll make you give-in----cuz, look at how long / how many times, she's been successful in getting you to bend to her, over the course of your relationship.
As for you being her soulmate..... I doubt if she has any idea what her soul FEELS, cuz everything she feels is from her interactions with other people----people whom she has manipulated into being her BRAIN'S ideal. She "manufactures" every relationship, every situation, every outcome, every emotional response, etc., etc., etc.----from, not only other people, but from HERSELF, as well. She's living a lie, really, cuz she's NOT gonna look in the mirror----she's not gonna explore HERSELF, cuz that's entirely too much work, and she'll NEVER take the responsibility for the role SHE plays, in when things go wrong.
Here's you some more homework:
This is professional advice, for dealing with a narc.
http://www.psychalive.org/narcissistic-relationships/
This is a blogger that I really like (this link was given to me by a very caring WPer).
http://narcissists-suck.blogspot.com/2008/06/best-of-posts-on-narcissists-suck.html
I suggest you go to this first link in this pair, so you can understand all the abbreviations, on the second link. I really like this place, cuz there's no bf-bashing----just help, and being able to get things off your chest.
http://outofthefog.website/glossary/
http://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=dfa4u4pr4bfm64lj26mnrcvg40&board=8.0
Now, you may feel like you don't need any help----or, that you'd rather wait until you've got a better grip, or whatever (though, this last pair of links, would help you get "there", more quickly)----and, that's totally fine; but, at least now you've got a place / articles to help you, when you want / are ready, to explore this "phenomenon" (narcissism), more.
Also, do NOT tell her you think she is a narcissist!! I PROMISE you that she will NOT listen, and that she will turn everything around on YOU, and make everything bad, that happened between the two of you, YOUR FAULT!! Don't think "Aww, she wouldn't do that"----that's what EVERY victim of a narcissist says, and every victim has been WRONG, for thinking that!!
PREACH!! ! ;-D
Okay thanks. I haven't made the time to answer these questions yet cause I feel really lousy about the whole thing. This week I decided to get back out there, and do what was suggested to me and meet other women. So I posted a pic of me on a dating site. Since I had been with my gf for years now, I did not have any recent pics to choose from, and wanted something recent, in case I looked a little different. Plus a lot of my older pics are lost now, over the years.
Every pic of me for the past few years has my gf in it as well. I took a pic of me and her and cropped me out, and used it for the dating site, since it was a really good pic of me. A good pic of us of course, but also a good pic of me, if you crop me out, and it's just me.
So I posted the pic of me on a dating site. A new girl sent me a message a couple of days later, and we talked for a bit and then went on a date. When I got back home, my gf sent me an email saying that she saw me on the site. She is on there too, with her own profile now. Can I post what the email read, or do you think that would be too personal, and innapropriate, even though we are broken up now?
I just feel bad after this email and I wanted to explain some things, and thought it might help to show it.
AngelRho
Veteran
Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,366
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile
You can post the email if you feel the need. But at this point, don't you think it's irrelevant? When situations like yours happen, you have to make your ex less than a non-person in your life. Every email, text, etc. is a fingerhold on your life. Block her. Ignore her out of existence. That's the only way girls like her learn.
Congrats on getting back in the saddle! Keep rolling with that. You're gonna be just fine.
Okay thanks. I guess it's not necessary, as long as she as actually manipulating me, and there was no mistaken since like one user on here said, 'all we can by is assumptions'.
On the dating site, she also made her own profile, before she saw me on there. On the profile, she listed all the qualities in a guy she wanted, and she listed all the qualities she doesn't. The things that she didn't want in a guy she listed, were all the problems she had with me, I noticed.
Campin_Cat
Veteran
Joined: 6 May 2014
Age: 64
Gender: Female
Posts: 25,953
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, U.S.A.
Basically, I agree with everything AngelRho said, in his last post----BUT, I can certainly understand why you'd want to post the email (NO NAMES, though----just, copy and paste her words), cuz you still need to work through this. We'll be glad to help you----plus, it'll give us something from "the horse's mouth"----we'll analyze it for you, and tell you what we think.
I was really concerned when you said you put your picture up, on the site----I was thinking "Oh, no----what if SHE is on there"----and then, of course, she WAS. Did you take notice of the date she joined. If it gives the DAY, along with the month and year, I would check to see what emails she wrote BEFORE and AFTER she made a profile, on there (if it doesn't give the DAY that she joined, it probably won't do much good). Also, anything she says to you, now, is moot, IMO, cuz she went lookin' elsewhere, didn't she----seems like she didn't have a WHOLE lotta problems, keeping food down, did she; and, it seems like she wasn't feeling NEARLY as badly as she lead you to believe.
Also, I'm not surprised that she said she wanted somebody withOUT all the things that you ARE, cuz I'm thinking she didn't want you, anyway----she just wanted to see what-all she could get out of you. When you were so nice and giving, she saw you as an easy target.
_________________
White female; age 59; diagnosed Aspie.
I use caps for emphasis----I'm NOT angry or shouting. I use caps like others use italics, underline, or bold.
"What we know is a drop; what we don't know, is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
AngelRho
Veteran
Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,366
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile
@Campin_Cat:
@ironpony: I stand by my advice about ignoring people out of existence. Just a little warning about that, though. Ignoring people is a kind of nuclear option that will inspire all kinds of despair and rage in people you do that to. I'm not walking back what I said. Just be prepared for all kinds of ugliness and backlash from it. People who get ignored will go to all kinds of lengths to get noticed or get a reaction from you. Don't fall for it. When your friend comes to you and says "X said ____ about you," the correct response is "Who? I don't know her..."
Okay thanks. I don't mean to ignore advice, and I haven't been. I haven't gotten back together or anything. Here is what the email from her read:
of course you can do what you want to do just cant believe you put that picture of us that we took and put it on pof. that is so low wow You know i really thought you cared about me or loved me and has not been that long sense we broke up but maybe i was wrong and thinking that you cared or even loved me. you played mind games with me and really hard to finally realize all you wanted was sex and not just sex but f****d sex too . That's what you like and i feel used you don't even care how you hurt me or what you did to me it was only one month ago that you were in my home watching movies with me and you could move on so fast wow Tell me how did you it, did you f**k someone already that's how. I was wrong about you 4 years i never knew you at all i was very wrong that i cried for you and just thought for one sec that you might have wanted to work on each other or at least give some time but no you right away go off do what you do. I do not care anymore i delete all pictures and all video and everything i have of you nothing left anymore of us. i know you wont read this message because too busy talking it up with another girls ... you asked me what can you do for me to forget about you just did it ! !! ! I can not believe i forgave you for doing what you did to me , i f*****g hate you why why all i can say why did you do this to me ........ you could have least try to care but you didn't i don't want to ever see you again or hear your voice i do not want anything from you . Do want you are best at doing is lying cheating f*****g or yes and not forget talking about your ex's .....i know that i will find someone good i do not need to go pof and f**k around just so i can feel alive, i will find good man who truly loves me and cares and who really is honest and loyal and faith and most of all who really has good heart and not who is like you. it will take some time to heal not because you broke up with me its what you did after and now that i saw your true colors i realized what people said about you was true stay away and wish i would have listen back then and i did not . i do not care about you anymore or whatever you want say. do whatever you want and want ever little part that i had that loved you its gone ....... just feel disgusted and feel like i wasted time on you ...... DO NOT WRITE ME BACK DO NOT CARE ANYMORE WHAT YOU SAY you have really help me to move on showed me that i can do much better then someone like you ............. and glad this happen because now all my fears that i thought was just in my mind came true and what people said about you i realized now that it was truth not worth me crying over and worth me being sad not anymore .
AngelRho
Veteran
Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,366
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile
Um...yyyyyyyeeeeeeeaaaaaaahhhhh...oKAY. Wow.
Reminds me of my ex. I invited a girl friend to visit me at college once, and this was a few months after we broke up. My friend was right there, and my ex was like "we have to talk." I said, "uh, no we don't. I'm a little busy right now."
So my ex screamed so loud you could hear her across campus "BUT I WAS PREGNANT!! !"
Um...NO, that would have required an ill-timed oopsie or a broken condom, neither of which happened AND you're on the pill. So don't bother trying to humiliate me now. You're just making yourself look even more insane.
The bad ones always show their true colors when their worlds fall apart.
Campin_Cat
Veteran
Joined: 6 May 2014
Age: 64
Gender: Female
Posts: 25,953
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, U.S.A.
@IronPony: LIES----ALL lies!!
Be on the lookout for these, before you're exploited!
5. "It’s Not My Fault / It’s Your Fault!"
Inevitably, the self-absorbed and manipulative machinations of a chronic narcissist will catch up with her or him, and land the narcissist in hot water. When this occurs, one of the most common responses of the narcissist is to point fingers, and shift responsibility to others. Oftentimes, the narcissist will blame their victims for having caused their own victimization. Another common response is making excuses - there is always some unexpected or unforeseen circumstance which deterred the narcissist from being responsible. Finally, the narcissist may make herself out to be the victim, pointing to any number of difficulties and hard-luck struggles which prevented her from being accountable, and ask for leniency (again being an exception to the rule). All of the manipulative devices above serve to shift scrutiny and responsibility away from the narcissist, so that her or his weaknesses, deficiencies, and failings can remain hidden.
6. "I'm Here for You / I Care About You / I Love You!"
Narcissists have the ability to be charming and charismatic when they choose. Like a master salesperson, they know how to say the right things to entice your attention, and steer you into believing their sugar-coated persuasions. In interpersonal and/or romantic relationships, narcissists are often quick to profess their admiration of and attraction for you, usually without bothering to really know you as a person. In reality, the narcissist wants you to feel special not because they really care about you, but because they want something from you. Sweet talk is a form of emotional manipulation calculated to seduce and exploit. In romance, the narcissist is often more enamored with the seduction process than he or she is with you, for you represent a "conquest" to them. Like a master con artist, they will hook you in, get what they want, and then leave you hanging out to dry. You’re left picking up the tattered relational pieces, perhaps wondering whether YOU did something wrong.
7. "You’re Not Here for Me / You Disappoint Me!"
Pathological narcissists often demand constant attention and sacrifices from those around them, for such placating makes them feel important. When someone in the narcissist’s manipulative orbit has the courage to be independent and chooses her or his own priority, the narcissist will often become highly agitated, sometimes fly into a (narcissistic) rage, and accuse the other person of being "selfish", "disappointing", or "not here for me". In reality, the narcissist is simply throwing a child-like tantrum for not getting his or her way. If you find yourself on the receiving end of these accusations, ask yourself the following questions:
Am I being treated with genuine respect?
Are this person’s expectations & demands of me reasonable?
Is the giving in this relationship primarily one way?
Ultimately, do I feel good about myself in this relationship?
If one or more of your answers to the questions above are in the negative, the truth may be that the narcissist is actually the one who’s not there for you.
8. "I'm Sorry / I'll Change."
Because narcissists often operate on inauthenticity and falsehoods, the consequences of their actions may eventually catch-up to them, and exact a heavy price. These are the moments of life-crisis for the narcissist, which may include family estrangement, marital separation or divorce, trouble with the law, damaged personal and/or professional reputation, etc.
During these moments, some narcissists will dramatically profess their wrong-doing, promise to change their ways, and ask for forgiveness. They may sound convincing, and perhaps even believe in the contrition themselves. But be very careful! Johnson warns that when many narcissists enter psychotherapy as the result of life crisis, it is not for the purpose of fundamentally changing their pathology, but only to affect crisis management. Often, as soon as the crisis is over, they’ll go back to their Machiavellian ways. When a narcissist says "I'll change", what he or she often wants is for the unpleasant situation to go away, without changing himself.
(Emphasis, mine.)
DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS EMAIL! ! That's what she WANTS you to do!! I know----I know----I know she said she didn't want you to, BUT she DOES!! She's passive-aggressively yankin' your chain, so you'll feel guilty and come running-back. REMEMBER, she's on that singles' site, TOO!!
_________________
White female; age 59; diagnosed Aspie.
I use caps for emphasis----I'm NOT angry or shouting. I use caps like others use italics, underline, or bold.
"What we know is a drop; what we don't know, is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
Okay thanks. Sorry I didn't reply for while, I just needed to not talk about the whole thing for a while.
I haven't seen her for a few weeks, but as I was shopping, she came up from behind my car at the grocery store and started yelling at me and making a scene. next time, i am in a parking lot, i am scoping teh whole place out first lol
then if i see her, i will call her and tell her i want to talk and try to get her away from the car, before i get in a drive away.
She was probably picking up her bro who works at that grocery store, and I didn't think of it at the time, that she may by small chance, be there.
AngelRho
Veteran
Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,366
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile
I haven't seen her for a few weeks, but as I was shopping, she came up from behind my car at the grocery store and started yelling at me and making a scene. next time, i am in a parking lot, i am scoping teh whole place out first lol
then if i see her, i will call her and tell her i want to talk and try to get her away from the car, before i get in a drive away.
She was probably picking up her bro who works at that grocery store, and I didn't think of it at the time, that she may by small chance, be there.
Don't ever say anything to her. She's not even a person anymore as far as you're concerned.
Ever see "A Beautiful Mind"? Schizophrenic eventually becomes aware of the delusions. So while he still sees imaginary characters and they seem real, he just ignores them. Make her a mere figment of your imagination.
If she continues to harass you or physically threatens or attacks you, call the police. I think she's psychotic and probably needs to be locked up for her own safety.
Okay thanks. When I broke up with she told me to take my ring back and then she gave me the ring back. I was about to leave when she started begging me and wouldn't let me leave, and so I had to move her out of the way, and she then told my friends that I hit her during the break up, when all I did was push her away from the door, so I could get out, after pleading with her to let me leave, several times.
During her begging me to stay, she kept asking for the ring back, but I was mad and upset and said no, since she told me to take it back.
I then left. Do think it is her ring, since I gave it to her and maybe I should have given it back. She asked for it back later in an email, saying it was hers. She also wanted the money back which she payed me back with for the dentist, that I lent her before, which I talked about before in my threads.
I do have some clothes of hers, to give her back as well. Those I should give back for sure, but what do you think? How should I approach this, if never talking to her again, is the best idea?
nick007
Veteran
Joined: 4 May 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 28,552
Location: was Louisiana but now Vermont in capitalistic military dictatorship called USA
You could ship her cloths to her.
_________________
"I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem!"
"Hear all, trust nothing"
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Ru ... cquisition
Reading that email is a textbook case of a Borderline Personality Disordered girl and is frightfully like my ex. Do they ?have access to the same script? I believe she literally said the first sentence word for word too! Ultimately, the only difference is she messaged me literally SECONDS after I created my public dating profile.
When you talk about slapping her, I almost ended up doing that myself and I am one of the most gentle people imaginable. I actually could see why spouses would commit murder and that was the point I knew something with SERIOUSLY wrong. The only thing you can do it break off all contact and seek counselling as to why you would even consider a relationship with someone obviously so messed up. I've seen enough of these relationships and it will ultimately end with a visit to the hospital, prison or morgue (or all three). My ex still cyberstalks me to this day even though I have happily married. When I finally had the courage to walk away for good, she swung from loving, kind messages to nasty hate filled ones. Her last word was that she was 'too good for someone like you'.
Good women are NOT like that. My wife does some things that drive me up the wall occasionally (and I'm sure I do the same to her) but we have NEVER yelled, NEVER argued angrily, NEVER badmouthed her, NEVER fought with her family or friends and she is NEVER moody and NEVER disrespectful. Who cares what your family thinks? It's YOUR life and these types of girls almost never change or improve.
Come on man, get a backbone and walk away before you end up with false rape or domestic abuse charges. You deserve so much better than being with a child and STAY AWAY FROM POF if you value your sanity. These types of women will ruin your life and are capable of serious self-harm and then having delusions you did it to her.
Okay thanks. She now sent me an email saying that I forced her to have sex with during the relationship... This makes me feel really concerned. There were times when we sort of had these rape fantasies. It's kind of like when James Bond was rough with p**** Galore, but he didn't actually mean to hurt or violate her.
We didn't do it like that often, just once in a while, here or there. But even though she was struggling, she still orgasmed and stuck with me, all that time, and kept wanting more and more sex, so either she was doing it all just to please and felt actually forced, here and there, the odd time when she would struggle, or she is just saying it now to make me feel bad.
nick007
Veteran
Joined: 4 May 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 28,552
Location: was Louisiana but now Vermont in capitalistic military dictatorship called USA
She could be so screwed up that she actually believes it was rape now even thou she didn't think it was rape at the time.
_________________
"I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem!"
"Hear all, trust nothing"
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Ru ... cquisition
