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What makes someone unattractive?

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Sabreclaw
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18 Mar 2017, 11:31 pm

Shahunshah wrote:
You almost frame it as though autistic people are worthless.


What? Not at all. It was self-reflection mainly. All I meant was that it's easier as a lonely person to blame others for your position, because self-criticism can be really hard to cope with. I'm sorry if I insulted anybody.



Shahunshah
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18 Mar 2017, 11:34 pm

Sabreclaw wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
You almost frame it as though autistic people are worthless.


What? Not at all. It was self-reflection mainly. All I meant was that it's easier as a lonely person to blame others for your position, because self-criticism can be really hard to cope with. I'm sorry if I insulted anybody.
Just read this again.

"Once you realize that loneliness is a result of your own worthlessness, you fall into deep depression and since you're all alone nobody is going to even care, making depression that much more powerful."

It kind of implies that autistic people might have to realize that their failure to get a girl is because they are worthless which they don't want to see.



Sabreclaw
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18 Mar 2017, 11:43 pm

Shahunshah wrote:
Sabreclaw wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
You almost frame it as though autistic people are worthless.


What? Not at all. It was self-reflection mainly. All I meant was that it's easier as a lonely person to blame others for your position, because self-criticism can be really hard to cope with. I'm sorry if I insulted anybody.
Just read this again.

"Once you realize that loneliness is a result of your own worthlessness, you fall into deep depression and since you're all alone nobody is going to even care, making depression that much more powerful."

It kind of implies that autistic people might have to realize that their failure to get a girl is because they are worthless which they don't want to see.


I was just expressing my personal experience. I've said in the last two posts that it was emotionally-charged, self-reflective expression. I'm not trying to cast others in a negative light, just extrapolate through my own feelings why some people might resort to making sweeping generalizations against the opposite gender.



ltcvnzl
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18 Mar 2017, 11:48 pm

Just to clear things:

I don't agree that external forces can't have a impact in our lives, and I know that dating/love is complicated. I even commented here previously that I feel I'll be always alone... and look, I'm a woman! There is many man struggling to find love and there is many woman struggling to find love as well.

Some commentaries sounds like "people" means man, and woman aren't individuals, but some another category of mean things that the real humans, aka man, need to work hard to achieve. We are people too and many of us have struggles just like you. It has much more to do into fitting in a pattern of attractiveness and success than being from a certain gender, and both patterns are hard to fit in and are excluding.



Shahunshah
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18 Mar 2017, 11:54 pm

Sabreclaw wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
Sabreclaw wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
You almost frame it as though autistic people are worthless.


What? Not at all. It was self-reflection mainly. All I meant was that it's easier as a lonely person to blame others for your position, because self-criticism can be really hard to cope with. I'm sorry if I insulted anybody.
Just read this again.

"Once you realize that loneliness is a result of your own worthlessness, you fall into deep depression and since you're all alone nobody is going to even care, making depression that much more powerful."

It kind of implies that autistic people might have to realize that their failure to get a girl is because they are worthless which they don't want to see.


I was just expressing my personal experience. I've said in the last two posts that it was emotionally-charged, self-reflective expression. I'm not trying to cast others in a negative light, just extrapolate through my own feelings why some people might resort to making sweeping generalizations against the opposite gender.


I don't feel as though their is an easy answer to this. Autistic people have to not harbor their resentment onto others. But we can't treat those who struggle as though it is entirely their fault either. If we do that we avoid giving them the support we need.

Neurotypicals have had their part to play in this as well, to say the least.



Shahunshah
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19 Mar 2017, 12:08 am

ltcvnzl wrote:
Just to clear things:

I don't agree that external forces can't have a impact in our lives, and I know that dating/love is complicated. I even commented here previously that I feel I'll be always alone... and look, I'm a woman! There is many man struggling to find love and there is many woman struggling to find love as well.

Some commentaries sounds like "people" means man, and woman aren't individuals, but some another category of mean things that the real humans, aka man, need to work hard to achieve. We are people too and many of us have struggles just like you. It has much more to do into fitting in a pattern of attractiveness and success than being from a certain gender, and both patterns are hard to fit in and are excluding.
I think you summed it up pretty well. Sometimes people on this forum, fall into black and white thinking and some silly assumptions and you have described quite well why that is wrong.

I feel this forum would benefit quite a bit if more people were like you. Such as Realize that women often have it tough and not fall into thinking traps.



Sabreclaw
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19 Mar 2017, 12:10 am

Shahunshah wrote:
Sabreclaw wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
Sabreclaw wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
You almost frame it as though autistic people are worthless.


What? Not at all. It was self-reflection mainly. All I meant was that it's easier as a lonely person to blame others for your position, because self-criticism can be really hard to cope with. I'm sorry if I insulted anybody.
Just read this again.

"Once you realize that loneliness is a result of your own worthlessness, you fall into deep depression and since you're all alone nobody is going to even care, making depression that much more powerful."

It kind of implies that autistic people might have to realize that their failure to get a girl is because they are worthless which they don't want to see.


I was just expressing my personal experience. I've said in the last two posts that it was emotionally-charged, self-reflective expression. I'm not trying to cast others in a negative light, just extrapolate through my own feelings why some people might resort to making sweeping generalizations against the opposite gender.


I don't feel as though their is an easy answer to this. Autistic people have to not harbor their resentment onto others. But we can't treat those who struggle as though it is entirely their fault either. If we do that we avoid giving them the support we need.

Neurotypicals have had their part to play in this as well, to say the least.


In what way can NT's be blamed if somebody happens to not have a romantic life?



Shahunshah
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19 Mar 2017, 12:17 am

Sabreclaw wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
Sabreclaw wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
Sabreclaw wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
You almost frame it as though autistic people are worthless.


What? Not at all. It was self-reflection mainly. All I meant was that it's easier as a lonely person to blame others for your position, because self-criticism can be really hard to cope with. I'm sorry if I insulted anybody.
Just read this again.

"Once you realize that loneliness is a result of your own worthlessness, you fall into deep depression and since you're all alone nobody is going to even care, making depression that much more powerful."

It kind of implies that autistic people might have to realize that their failure to get a girl is because they are worthless which they don't want to see.


I was just expressing my personal experience. I've said in the last two posts that it was emotionally-charged, self-reflective expression. I'm not trying to cast others in a negative light, just extrapolate through my own feelings why some people might resort to making sweeping generalizations against the opposite gender.


I don't feel as though their is an easy answer to this. Autistic people have to not harbor their resentment onto others. But we can't treat those who struggle as though it is entirely their fault either. If we do that we avoid giving them the support we need.

Neurotypicals have had their part to play in this as well, to say the least.


In what way can NT's be blamed if somebody happens to not have a romantic life?

Its complicated.

Some Neurotypicals have often bullied autistic people because they are different.

I feel sometimes they shouldn't throw around words like social ret*d as much as we do and see them as creepy. When all they need to do is learn how to behave normally, its puts them a box and prevents them from climbing out.

I think that sometimes neurotypicals could make a small effort to include autistic people in their conversations, it allows them to feel more relaxed around people as well as gradually learn how to communicate. Sometimes neurotypicals just don't want to have anything to do with us even if what they have to do is so small.

And finally neurotypical people sometimes need to realize that different does not translate to threatening.



Sabreclaw
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19 Mar 2017, 12:29 am

Shahunshah wrote:
Sabreclaw wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
Sabreclaw wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
Sabreclaw wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
You almost frame it as though autistic people are worthless.


What? Not at all. It was self-reflection mainly. All I meant was that it's easier as a lonely person to blame others for your position, because self-criticism can be really hard to cope with. I'm sorry if I insulted anybody.
Just read this again.

"Once you realize that loneliness is a result of your own worthlessness, you fall into deep depression and since you're all alone nobody is going to even care, making depression that much more powerful."

It kind of implies that autistic people might have to realize that their failure to get a girl is because they are worthless which they don't want to see.


I was just expressing my personal experience. I've said in the last two posts that it was emotionally-charged, self-reflective expression. I'm not trying to cast others in a negative light, just extrapolate through my own feelings why some people might resort to making sweeping generalizations against the opposite gender.


I don't feel as though their is an easy answer to this. Autistic people have to not harbor their resentment onto others. But we can't treat those who struggle as though it is entirely their fault either. If we do that we avoid giving them the support we need.

Neurotypicals have had their part to play in this as well, to say the least.


In what way can NT's be blamed if somebody happens to not have a romantic life?

Its complicated.

Some Neurotypicals have often bullied autistic people because they are different.

I feel sometimes they shouldn't throw around words like social ret*d as much as we do and see them as creepy. When all they need to do is learn how to behave normally, its puts them a box and prevents them from climbing out.

I think that sometimes neurotypicals could make a small effort to include autistic people in their conversations, it allows them to feel more relaxed around people as well as gradually learn how to communicate. Sometimes neurotypicals just don't want to have anything to do with us even if what they have to do is so small.

And finally neurotypical people sometimes need to realize that different does not translate to threatening.


I think you're putting way too much responsibility at the feet of NT's. In the same way that lonely men shouldn't be pointing the finger at women, lonely aspies shouldn't be pointing the finger at NT's. It is not their fault if we happen to be forever alone.



Shahunshah
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19 Mar 2017, 12:57 am

Sabreclaw wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
Sabreclaw wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
Sabreclaw wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
Sabreclaw wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
You almost frame it as though autistic people are worthless.


What? Not at all. It was self-reflection mainly. All I meant was that it's easier as a lonely person to blame others for your position, because self-criticism can be really hard to cope with. I'm sorry if I insulted anybody.
Just read this again.

"Once you realize that loneliness is a result of your own worthlessness, you fall into deep depression and since you're all alone nobody is going to even care, making depression that much more powerful."

It kind of implies that autistic people might have to realize that their failure to get a girl is because they are worthless which they don't want to see.


I was just expressing my personal experience. I've said in the last two posts that it was emotionally-charged, self-reflective expression. I'm not trying to cast others in a negative light, just extrapolate through my own feelings why some people might resort to making sweeping generalizations against the opposite gender.


I don't feel as though their is an easy answer to this. Autistic people have to not harbor their resentment onto others. But we can't treat those who struggle as though it is entirely their fault either. If we do that we avoid giving them the support we need.

Neurotypicals have had their part to play in this as well, to say the least.


In what way can NT's be blamed if somebody happens to not have a romantic life?

Its complicated.

Some Neurotypicals have often bullied autistic people because they are different.

I feel sometimes they shouldn't throw around words like social ret*d as much as we do and see them as creepy. When all they need to do is learn how to behave normally, its puts them a box and prevents them from climbing out.

I think that sometimes neurotypicals could make a small effort to include autistic people in their conversations, it allows them to feel more relaxed around people as well as gradually learn how to communicate. Sometimes neurotypicals just don't want to have anything to do with us even if what they have to do is so small.

And finally neurotypical people sometimes need to realize that different does not translate to threatening.


I think you're putting way too much responsibility at the feet of NT's. In the same way that lonely men shouldn't be pointing the finger at women, lonely aspies shouldn't be pointing the finger at NT's. It is not their fault if we happen to be forever alone.


Maybe. I think I am showing a very collectivist attitude their so I will try to stop.

I don't think that neurotypicals who embody what I just said necessarily have it as their fault that things are that way.

It is in the human physce to scared of difference, we can't blame them for simply thinking that. It is just a perception that we as a society have got to change.

I think that people should include aspies in their conversation to a minimal level. It is okay to set boundaries you don't have to be friends with these people. But for some individuals on the spectrum it is one of the few chances they got. The best thing we can do is allow them to climb. If not than some of these people will be left behind whilst many neurotypicals get married, have kids etc.



The_Face_of_Boo
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19 Mar 2017, 6:24 am

What basically Sabreclaw is saying that lonely people ended up lonely because there's something fundamentally wrong with them, it can be anything (too ugly, too poor, too uneducated, too aspie...etc) and not because of others.

I kinda agree with this.



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19 Mar 2017, 6:55 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
What basically Sabreclaw is saying that lonely people ended up lonely because there's something fundamentally wrong with them, it can be anything (too ugly, too poor, too uneducated, too aspie...etc) and not because of others.

I kinda agree with this.


At times I feel like there must be something fundamentally wrong with me, but I have friends and family who tell me that's not true. Now, I know that you are analytical like me Boo and you will come back with an argument for that. You'll say that they are biased and feel that they have to say that out of politeness. Well, that's true to a certain extent.

But our friends and family also know us well enough to know our good points too. The people we meet and try to date never get to know us well enough to know our good points. They only see a shallow surface representation of who we are.

So yeah, there's some things about us that may bit a bit difficult to deal with for a large number of people, but don't ever anyone feel that you are completely flawed. We all have good points too.



Sabreclaw
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19 Mar 2017, 7:54 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
What basically Sabreclaw is saying that lonely people ended up lonely because there's something fundamentally wrong with them, it can be anything (too ugly, too poor, too uneducated, too aspie...etc) and not because of others.

I kinda agree with this.


Just take a look at the kind of person that can end up in a relationship. The one thing they all have in common is... well, nothing. People of all sorts of personalities and body shapes/sizes end up in relationships, or at the very least are sexually active. It's rare to wind up forever alone, and it means that something isn't quite working on your end. I refer to this something as the "x-factor", since it's nothing I can point to.

If I could go back and rephrase my first post I would. Ignore it; it just relates to my feelings about myself. I don't mean to suggest all lonely people are worthless, just me in particular.



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19 Mar 2017, 8:29 am

Sabreclaw wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
What basically Sabreclaw is saying that lonely people ended up lonely because there's something fundamentally wrong with them, it can be anything (too ugly, too poor, too uneducated, too aspie...etc) and not because of others.

I kinda agree with this.


Just take a look at the kind of person that can end up in a relationship. The one thing they all have in common is... well, nothing. People of all sorts of personalities and body shapes/sizes end up in relationships, or at the very least are sexually active. It's rare to wind up forever alone, and it means that something isn't quite working on your end. I refer to this something as the "x-factor", since it's nothing I can point to.

If I could go back and rephrase my first post I would. Ignore it; it just relates to my feelings about myself. I don't mean to suggest all lonely people are worthless, just me in particular.


Maybe it's just luck? They are lucky enough to find the right person?



Sabreclaw
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19 Mar 2017, 8:33 am

Alliekit wrote:
Sabreclaw wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
What basically Sabreclaw is saying that lonely people ended up lonely because there's something fundamentally wrong with them, it can be anything (too ugly, too poor, too uneducated, too aspie...etc) and not because of others.

I kinda agree with this.


Just take a look at the kind of person that can end up in a relationship. The one thing they all have in common is... well, nothing. People of all sorts of personalities and body shapes/sizes end up in relationships, or at the very least are sexually active. It's rare to wind up forever alone, and it means that something isn't quite working on your end. I refer to this something as the "x-factor", since it's nothing I can point to.

If I could go back and rephrase my first post I would. Ignore it; it just relates to my feelings about myself. I don't mean to suggest all lonely people are worthless, just me in particular.


Maybe it's just luck? They are lucky enough to find the right person?


It's not even about finding the one right person. It's about the difference between having a normal romantic life and being a forever-aloner. What do normal people have that the perpetually single don't?



Last edited by Sabreclaw on 19 Mar 2017, 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

The_Face_of_Boo
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19 Mar 2017, 8:36 am

Sabreclaw wrote:
Alliekit wrote:
Sabreclaw wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
What basically Sabreclaw is saying that lonely people ended up lonely because there's something fundamentally wrong with them, it can be anything (too ugly, too poor, too uneducated, too aspie...etc) and not because of others.

I kinda agree with this.


Just take a look at the kind of person that can end up in a relationship. The one thing they all have in common is... well, nothing. People of all sorts of personalities and body shapes/sizes end up in relationships, or at the very least are sexually active. It's rare to wind up forever alone, and it means that something isn't quite working on your end. I refer to this something as the "x-factor", since it's nothing I can point to.

If I could go back and rephrase my first post I would. Ignore it; it just relates to my feelings about myself. I don't mean to suggest all lonely people are worthless, just me in particular.


Maybe it's just luck? They are lucky enough to find the right person?


It's not even about finding the right person. It's about the difference between having a normal romantic life and being a forever-aloner. What do normal people have that the perpetually single don't?



The luck comes into play into finding the right person.... like the person being your SO is a great person but that's it, you are right, for one who ends forever alone (aka, not accepted by anyone as a romantic partner) is a completely another matter and certainly not related to luck.