Not feeling (romantically) - is that an AS thing?

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Yep I'm sure it's a big part of the issue . . .. . But friendship can happen between very different people. It's what makes life interesting otherwise we would never learn much about other types of people or even ourselves.

It makes it more difficult for sure but if we care enough to keep,trying then that's good enough for me.

So I guess I am NT . .. I am over emotional , very caring, very aware of others feelings and emotions to the point of it becoming overwhelming at times. I guess I am popular and have many friends. . .a lot of them have been friends for 20 plus years (male and female) I do however enjoy my own company much of the time, and am considered by others to be a strong woman willing to face troubles and adventures head on. I laugh a lot and like to use humour to cover some of my own emotions. My friends consider me somewhat a loner, they often fight hard to get me to join social events and parties.

Why am I telling you this? Because we then move onto my close friendship with an Aspie man I met about 18 months ago. After the initial stage of our friendship when he was constantly texting and messaging me, chatting all day every day often late into the night things began to change. I realise now that he is Aspie ( i didn't at the time) I used to be offended by some of his apparently abrupt answers. I used to read purely direct answers without emotions as meaning he didn't want to do something or didn't care. I would often make statements such as "if you aren't v bothered let's call an end to this" it felt as if I was always the one making arrangements. .. .. etc etc all the usual things that an NT with limited understanding of the effects of AS complain about. However I never gave up, I did begin to understand more, I read and read and read and cared enough to take a step back and not let my emotions run away with me.

Speaking on behalf of my Aspie friend. He met someone that he found fun, humorous and interesting . .. .then suddenly she started to act in a way that seemed to be constantly tripping him up. Always wanting to talk about emotions and how does he feel. He would take time out then come back and try and sort it out, then it would soon start all over again. I can tell he found it exhausting. He chose not to answer what he considered to be no win situations. Often feeling that whatever he said would be the wrong thing, and finding it easier just to ignore. . . . .however he also never gave up. He never walked away and was always ready to answer within 5 minutes when I had calmed down and text him a simple "hi"

My point for all this ramble is that the dynamics of an AS /NT friendship are harder than normal friendships. I found that I became all the things that AS folk complain about. I was needy, irrational , over emotional and demanding. This is not whom I am normally in my friendships. It is a reaction, I believe, to not understanding the cues and responses because they don't follow the normal social pattern of friendship. I would state how much I enjoyed his company, how much he made me laugh and smile. In response I would simply get a text stating "thank you" now I would smile and be happy with that but initially I would think "well he doesn't appreciate me, where is the reciprocation of things he enjoys about me" etc etc. Then I would begin digging for compliments, and my Aspie friend would run and hide until I shut up!

So I think we bring out the extremes in our personality types and that can make the clashes big . . .. . We have far less now. I do still remind him sometimes that even though what he has said is rational and in the context of the words used perfectly true The problem is I am never going to be able to stop adding emotional weighting to some statements.
In the same way I accept that he will never feel comfortable discussing emotions. Instead would like me to accept that the fact that he is still around as enough sign that he doesn't hate me!!

I'm glad you came to the conclusion of the last sentence yourself, because someone could end up getting really hurt in the end.

Your post here really upsets me - nothing against you personally, just the alexithymia and how people who have it see a situation. The paragraph about how the relationship will end is true, but you are seeing it from a logical side. What is not discussed here is what the other person is going to have to endure - the feeling part. People with alexithymia do not have to suffer those feelings that could go on for years leading to possible depression and even suicide. The feeling part can be very traumatic and can change the person forever. I knew a person who had this and I told him that he was going to keep hurting people by the way he treated them - cutting friendships and relationships off when they no longer served a purpose for him. It didn't bother him one bit when he cut these people off and that is why he could keep doing it. I really cannot see the difference with a person having this alexithymia and a person who is a psychopath or a sociopath. A feeling person cannot even begin to comprehend the situation. I can't understand how it would be, but I have been on the receiving end and it was traumatic to say the least.

My question is does he really care? Caring is a feeling and is not logical. Maybe he sees you as a comfort for him because you are always there and reliable for when he wants someone around.

How do we know if anyone really cares? When I'm with him I feel the warmth. I see in his face that he cares . . .. when he hugs me it is a long and hard hug.

I think you can read things either positively or negatively in any relationship. I didn't choose to become close to an Aspie . . .. but it happened and I am trying to make,it work

I get that. I'm trying to see this alexithymia from a logical point of view. The one above who has alexithymia and said his relationship isn't going to work is right. It's kind of like a person who is really smart needs to be around someone who can spark that side of them and really make them think - that is a turn on for them. If they have no feelings, a feeling person is going to be on a totally different level from them and not be of interest. The feeling person is also not going to be turned on by someone who has no feelings and is unable to share those feeling experiences. The person who is logical can see this fact, but its the feelings of the feeling person that get in the way making it seem like "anything can work when there is love" kind of stuff. The fact is that the feeling person will have to give up the feeling part of the relationship which is actually what relationships are comprised of with NT's. If there are no feelings, there is no caring and the person is just another person. The same goes with a feeling person - if someone doesn't spark a feeling interest in a person who is feeling, then there is no relationship there unless the feeling person starts feeling something for that person because of another reason. I am a feeling person. If I have no feelings for someone they are most likely just a stranger to me and not worth my time. I feel nothing for them. So with someone who is alexithymic, it sounds like the other person would have to have a trigger that will interest their logical side. Am I making any sense here or am I just babbling?

Yes I think I understand although it is getting late. Is there a reason you have had friendships with 4 different aspies as you know and understand the pitfalls of trying to understand each other? I think my guy does have feelings just has incredible difficulty showing them. I do get hurt but he never does it intentionally. . .. . .. . I have to ask myself too why I am so fixated on making this friendship work when I have other people who have made it very clear they would like to be close to me, yet I keep them, at arms length . .. . As NTs we are not so straightforward either.

I think it's because we are feeling people. For me, it was like a continuous repeat cycle - in the beginning all of my Aspie guy friends were giving me attention that I really wanted and that caused me to develop whatever feelings I had for them, then they would do something that hurt me (like not texting me back, or not getting in touch with me for weeks, or not wishing me a Merry Christmas - things that I normally expect and get from other NT's) and I would try to shrug it off as it was me that was the problem. I'm too needy and clingy and need to lighten up. I'm an independent woman and I have other friendships that I can get my feeling fix from. I even brought up the subject to my Aspie guy friends asking them if they would connect with me more and they would try, but then fall back into their old habits like anyone does. I just couldn't shake the what I call a "lack of connection" that I had with them. I think now one of the things lacking on their end was empathy. Not saying they didn't have any empathy, but they were unable to convey to me that they had it. That was a biggie. I think it was the lack of empathy that lead to me always feeling a sense of loneliness. I was never able to connect with them on an emotional level because they were not emotional - they were logical. It was always a feeling of being up one minute when I heard from them to being down the next because of the way they said something or I didn't hear back from them when I thought I should have. I thought there was something wrong with me. There is a condition that I have read about in Asperger books that usually affects women NT's in relationships with men Aspies and I forgot the name of it now. It happens because the woman's emotional needs are not being met and it often leads to depression and sometimes suicide. Feeling people have to have that side of them satisfied or they will get extremely depressed.

I am able to see the situation that you are in logically now because I have no feelings invested. I could not see my own situation for what it was because my feelings were getting in the way. Now that I don't miss my Aspie friends anymore (it's been a couple of years now), I can see the situations for what they were. I know I could not be with anyone who has alexithymia or is a sociopath or a psychopath. I found out that I do have to have my feeling needs met or I will get seriously depressed.

The Cassandra effect I think it's called. Yes I understand that. I think there is something addictive about waiting for the little nuggets of gold (as my friend call them) when they do do or say something loving or emotional. That in itself can provoke a cycle that could easily become emotional abuse - on either side of the relationship.

However I do accept that I am not going to ever get my emotional needs met. We are not in a romantic relationship and I know I need someone who can show me a lot of love in romance. I would be lying if I said I don't get hurt, but I honestly do not think it is ever intentional on my friends part, and I know he appreciates that I do not walk away from him like many people have done in the past. Bottom line is I adore the infuriating complicated and rather quite humorous creature!

That's it - the Cassandra Effect.
I also like being around them - obviously, or I still wouldn't be here, right? I actually think its because they satisfy my logical side. I like being around smart people. And not all Aspies have alexithymia.

While I appreciate that sentiment you're completely wrong. Seriously, why do you think we even have this subforum?

Psychopathy/sociopathy manifests as total apathy in general whereas alexithymia is a simple impediment to identifying emotions & their intensity. I'm alexithymic & that f*cking hurt.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/samantha- ... 30914.html

From the article:

"Conversations with alexithymics can feel monotonous and frustrating. In the excellent (although jargon-heavy in the last chapters) book Emotionally Dumb: An Overview of Alexithymia, the author writes, “The alexithymic communication style is object-tied and logical, with a striking absence of poetic undertone which might reveal deeper resonances of psychic life.” The alexithymic does not often lead with opinions or reflections. Rather, he discusses factual happenings in his day, or details about his activities, without offering observations or feelings about them that would draw others into his story. It seems to others that the alexithymic is intentionally shutting down deeper communication, but he just does not understand how or why people would continuously discuss feelings or hypotheticals. Alexithymics are very literal. They usually don’t enjoy novels, or shows or movies that focus on emotions, but if they come into contact with them, they may learn ways of talking or relating from them, just as they mimic others in their social circle."

Alexithymics are not feeling people - they are literal.

Literal people feel & more importantly read or how would we be literal? I read plenty of novels, I can enjoy dramas. Not going to deny loving me some cold, monolithic logic but it's not all numbers & machinery. Comparative linguistics shows this well, for Example modern english is terrible where expressions like these are concerned. Keep in mind the social & geographic meanings of 'romance language'.

If you really think this boils down to a potential for extreme violence & willful ignorance then you must not have breached the subject with anyone your alexithymic profile might apply to.

One of my Aspie friends up in Boston told me he was alexithymic and had absolutely no feelings for anyone or anything. He said that he actually would forget a person even existed once they were out of his sight. He said he had no feelings for his parents, any relationships that he had been in or even his cat for that matter. He was always on an even keel - no happiness, no sadness, no love. I'm sure not all people are the same and that there are different levels for alexithymics. He knew how to act well - I'll say that. I would have never known that he had no feelings if he hadn't told me. I really felt bad for him, but it didn't really bother him. He had never felt anything so he didn't know what he was missing. He treated his Ma and Pa really well though for someone who said they felt no love for their parents. I have only good memories of him. Still have a picture of him and his cat on my computer. I hope things turned out well for him.

He reads like a high functionionong sociopath from a positive background IMO, actually from what I've learned that basically means totally normal. I wouldn't tend to think it mutually exclusive from HFA. I remember interviews & documentaries with the psych researcher who publicized the 'warrior gene' only to find out he carried it - it just wasn't heavily expressed due to his positive upbringing & family.

I think alexithymia generally does not reach such an extent that people experiencing it might tell others they don't feel something. If anything, the usual response would relate to uncertainty rather than any absence of emotion as a whole. Love is something some people have to experience dynamically whereas you might see many things about it as definite action.