Women in their 30’s stop liking “bad boys”?

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Raphael F
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14 Oct 2019, 12:43 pm

hurtloam wrote:

Yeah, Raphael is doing a very good job at being empathetic and explaining how he got things to turn around for him. I'm not quite so good at putting things into words.

A big stick isn't the best motivator sometimes.

Madam, you flatter me! Some might say I was only doing a good job of talking about myself (which is a skill I've been practising for many years now...). However, I'm not saying my own exact way of getting things to turn around for me will necessarily work in any other specific person's case. I was only attempting to illustrate how deep-rooted and how complex someone's problems can be, way more deep-rooted and complex than many mental health professionals are ready or able to handle alas.

Marknis wrote:

hurtloam wrote:

A big stick isn't the best motivator sometimes.

It isn’t at all. Twilightprincess thought I needed “tough love” and she only just made me feel worse.

I venture to suggest we have all, in our different ways, been endeavouring sincerely and constructively to say some things which we, separately and variously, felt needed to be said. Unfortunately, none of us is Marknis and none of us has necessarily been quite where he is. And I remember very very vividly that when I first began expressing the fact I was struggling and unhappy and had a problem, not even I really knew just how fundamental my problem was, and I was not in a place where I could really take in (or even believe) much of the advice many well-wishers sought to offer. Certainly a lot of the things Marknis says he's been hurt or offended by would have hurt me and brought extremely hostile reactions from me, when I was younger: reactions which would have struck my intending well-wishers or mentors as gratuitously obnoxious and wilfully negative; reactions which would have lost me a lot of sympathy, or at least triggered some momentarily angry reproaches.

So it's probably just as well we didn't have the internet back then!

Maybe, so far as being marginalized and remaining single goes, it is slightly different for a male?

Moreover, although it is not necessarily the case that Marknis is in a place worse than some posters have ever been, it may well be he is in a place unlike any place they've ever been or even heard of. So we may all be doing our best, but if you're lost in the middle of Paris and I'm telling you how to get from Piccadilly Circus to Trafalgar Square, you may have difficulty expressing your gratitude for my input, or indeed feeling much gratitude! Because my directions through central London are going to be of very little help to you there in Paris, however experienced a driver I may be.

But good luck, Marknis. There are those of us who have also found it impossible to believe things could ever get better or come right in any way, and yet subsequently been proved wrong. I hope it happens for you sooner rather than later, and I only wish I could give you a timetable.

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sly279
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14 Oct 2019, 5:19 pm

Raphael F wrote:

sly279 wrote:

My last therapist used my sessions for job search so I could become a real man since no woman would date me without a real job.

My situation is hopeless

Sorry your experience with that therapist was so unsuccessful. The very fact you now feel your situation is hopeless demonstrates it was not the right therapist for you.

Sincerely respect your feeling that your situation is hopeless. I've spent too many years of my life feeling the same. Luckily psychotherapy changed that, in my case. If you were to find a better therapist, maybe either your situation could be improved or your fear that it's hopeless could be dispelled.

But again there are those who find medication is a better and simpler way of achieving the same end.

Incidentally, despite my having been permanently signed off as "away with the faeries" and completely incapable of earning a living, a few women have, from time to time, occasionally, been interested in me. No denying affluence can help, but that's an attribute I've almost never possessed, and there's been no correlation between my employment status or bank balance and my success (or lack of success) with women.

Believing that my situation was hopeless was, in retrospect, something of a turn-off for women. And even in the realms of Platonic friendship, actually.

So psychotherapy did help me to find girlfriends, in a very real way: it enabled me to start feeling less hopeless, and hey presto I was a less unattractive person! Even while my physical body was ageing, and thus becoming less desirable, my personality was magically improving and becoming more desirable. So this illustrates what is possible.

So, may I venture to wish you good luck? There's no denying you need some of that, too...

Trophonius wrote:

I believe at any age the main factor of attractiveness is social status.

Agree it can be a powerful factor, but again my own experience proves other factors can supervene. Also the most successful womanizer I know is short, fat, not especially good-looking, and has never had any money: he does it all on personality; so again, working on one's personality really could be a big help, and at least it's something constructive one can actually do (often we can't change our social status or our employment status, but we can work on our personality, yeah?).

100% agree self-esteem is part of the recipe for success. Whatever self-esteem I may now fragilely possess, I owe it all to psychotherapy.

Never had a woman show interest for me in person in my 31 years soon to be 32 years of life.

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sly279
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14 Oct 2019, 5:25 pm

hurtloam wrote:

sly279 wrote:

hurtloam wrote:

That's because you're not a genuine nice guy. You're self absorbed, only focussed on one thing, you're bitter, you constantly complain and have a huge chip on your shoulder. Mature women want someone balanced, with a mature outlook, who doesn't behave like a victim of society. They want someone positive and grown up enough not to blame every tiny problem in their lives on their parents or people they dont like. Someone who doesn't harp on and on about the same things without looking at the positives or doing anything positive in their life. Even when you do something positive, like take a college course that interests you, all you do is moan about all the negatives you think exist around that situation. What are you bringing to a relationship? Why should they want to date you? Ask yourself what you can bring to the table. With work you can bring good things, but you're not ready yet.

Relationships shouldn't be about what people bring to the table that's a very superficial materialistic mindset and I'm tired of seeing it repeated here.

Hello! You're talking to me. I didn't mean material things.

I meant, what positive qualities can we all bring to the table?

You're actually quite a caring person, which means you have an edge over a lot of men I've met. You wouldn't mess a girl around like guys have messed me around.

Genuineness is a great quality.

But also I mean things like being responsible. Being able to find the good in things and not throwing an insurmountable dark emotional burden on one's partner.

My positive qualities are as other here have put it “basic human qualities everyone human should have and can have so not considered any thing special therefore I offer nothing.” They can get a well off guy to be caring and compassionate but they can’t make a caring compassionate guy well off.

I’m responsible. I find positive in others situations. I wouldn’t be as sad if I had a gf, other things would be more bearable. My crap job wouldn’t suck as much if I had someone to go home to ever night, it’d be more worth putting up with. I’d rather be poor with someone or rich alone. If I ever win lottery I won’t seek a relationship.

The things I have to offer are expected from every man so it’s default. So I offer nothing. It’s the material things people consider one has to offer.

I’ve given up on ever finding anyone, so hopefully in few years I’ll give up on life.
Works getting worse, I need to work hard on not talking and ignoring people when they try to talk to me. This is going depress me. I got a job so I’d socialize and get out, now it’s just going be more harmful and for the money. Going try to make it til I pay off iPad and save some money up then probably quit. Don’t think they’re let me transfer.
Again it’d be bareable if I had someone, I see all the others at work have someone it makes it bareable for them. I go home to be alone and play games alone. I’ll never speak verbally much anymore. Isolation leads to becoming wild like :cry:

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kraftiekortie
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14 Oct 2019, 6:23 pm

Many women just want a “regular” guy.

I’m a “regular” guy. Nothing special.

How in the hell does “regular” turn into “nothing”? That makes no sense.

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15 Oct 2019, 9:13 am

kraftiekortie wrote:

... How in the hell does "regular" turn into "nothing"? ...

When someone: (1) Focuses only on the negative aspects of his or her life; (2) Expresses that negativity in action, attitude, and word; (3) Gives up on any form of self-improvement; and (4) Expects the world to change for him or her.

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kraftiekortie
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15 Oct 2019, 9:24 am

I noticed, in Sly, quite a glimmer of Possibility. He has read lots of history, and knows lots about other things.

And he's okay-looking. And pretty tall.

What I'm saying: he should have a more realistic impression of himself.

Marknis
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15 Oct 2019, 9:41 am

My mother actually told me many years ago my height would make me desirable even though at the same time she was telling me she didn’t want me to have a girlfriend. Well, her outlook was complete crap. A former friend of mine was short and he had female attention without even trying. A high school bully of mine looked like a little kid and he had girls on both sides of him constantly. Someone else I knew in high school was similar and he had a very pretty girlfriend.

I find the whole idea that you need to be tall to have a girlfriend to be nonsense. Not being brainwashed by that idea is also partly why I am not an incel. I also don’t want a religious theocracy or root for Trump like they do. I also don’t think the Western world is sick like a lot of them think despite how they bow down to Trump.

Last edited by Marknis on 15 Oct 2019, 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

kraftiekortie
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15 Oct 2019, 9:43 am

I never said you needed to be "tall" to have a girlfriend.

I'm not even 5 foot 5----and I had only some trouble with romance. Many women are taller than me; I've gone out with a few women who are taller than I am.

But, in certain instances, height DOES help.

Marknis
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15 Oct 2019, 10:01 am

My mother does certainly have outdated dating ideals and she was shocked to learn that girls my age disliked chest hair and weren’t impressed with the “yuppie” fashion sense she pushed onto me.

kraftiekortie
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15 Oct 2019, 10:03 am

I don't like how much people shave these days.

I'd rather go back to the 70s and 80s----when shaving was definitely not de riguer--even amongst ladies.

I only shave my face; I don't look good in a beard.

Marknis
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15 Oct 2019, 10:16 am

I shave all my facial hair since it ages me. Ironically, my redneck father does the same thing for the same reason.

I wish I didn’t have chest hair and once crudely shaved it all off because I felt like it was keeping me from having a girlfriend.

Raphael F
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15 Oct 2019, 10:22 am

I have not conducted a scientific survey, but I do seem to remember overhearing various conversations among women as to whether they did or did not like hairy men. Some do, some don't, is the conclusion I've come to. And even then, some end up with a hairy man when they really in theory prefer not-so-hairy men, and vice versa.

As someone who occasionally drives a bus, I have perhaps overheard more than my fair share of such conversations, because the bus driver (e.g. for a "hen party" trip to the seaside...) is practically invisible, part of the furniture, like a Victorian domestic servant; which suits me fine, naturally, because then I don't have to interact, I can just listen, and meanwhile enjoy the drive...

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Marknis
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15 Oct 2019, 1:27 pm

Redneck women tolerate hairy men more than other groups from what I’ve seen. A lot of their boyfriends have their mouths covered over by hair and the smell of cigarettes is strong.

sly279
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15 Oct 2019, 1:33 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

Many women just want a “regular” guy.

I’m a “regular” guy. Nothing special.

How in the hell does “regular” turn into “nothing”? That makes no sense.

Is a blade of green grass in a field of green grass considered special?

Regulate guys have good jobs, cars and own place aka their life together, regular is middle class as all Americans are raised to want to be middle class and live middle class lifestyle.

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sly279
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15 Oct 2019, 1:37 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

What’s more realistic then accepting what most women of me? To go against that would be ignoring reality and thus nit realistic.
Might as well believe I can fly and go jump off a tall building.

Most people are tall here and tallness doesn’t buy houses, cars, dinners out or vacations.

I retain useless information:(

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IsabellaLinton
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15 Oct 2019, 1:43 pm

Marknis wrote:

I don't classify people as rednecks or non-rednecks because that's elitist, but I don't think I would be considered one. I like guys to look however they are meant to look. If they are naturally hairy chested, leave it and don't shave it off like a prima donna. If you are naturally unhairy, that's fine too. Be yourself. It's emotionally unhealthy to hate one's self, one's appearance and one's body, because of a persecution complex or perceived opinion about other people's preferences.

I'm reading so much self-shaming lately, I can't help but wonder if we should have a thread about Body Dysmorphic Disorder.

Or, maybe there is one?

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