Board index › Coping in life › Love and Dating

What NT Women Want

Page 4 of 11 [ 166 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 11  Next

Previous topic | Next topic

quite an extreme
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Aug 2018
Age: 326
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,922
Location: Germany

21 Feb 2020, 7:32 pm

B19 wrote:
None of this seems to address the double communication problem which can be a significant barrier to establishing a relationship.

You are right but it still depends on the communication problems and the autism level and it helps once you are aware of the differences in the brains. NT won't change so it's good to be aware of the way that their brains work.


_________________
I am as I am. :skull: :sunny: :wink: :sunny: :skull: Life has to be an adventure!


The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 44
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 33,664
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

22 Feb 2020, 1:25 am

AquaineBay wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
AquaineBay wrote:
Also think of this, Men have to have a stable job, a car, own their own home(or at least rent it). Why do women not have to know how to cook, clean, take care of the kids, basically be a stay at home mom. To me if a woman is not suppose to stay at home anymore as a requirement than a man should not have to have a job as a requirement. If having a stable job is a requirement for men than women in general are shooting themselves in the foot by being in the workforce cause for every job a woman has that's a job that a man could be working and could have a house, a car, better grooming habits, more hobbies, etc.


Why shouldn't men know how to cook clean and take care of kids (if they want a family)?

This argument doesn't make any sense to me.

A man who wants a responsible partner would do well to find himself a woman who is responsible enough to hold down a job.


The argument behind this is that back in the day a man had to have a stable job, own his own place, and a car because women could not work, couldn't own any property, and(well cars didn't exist back then).

Men weren't trained to cook, clean, or take care of kids cause as boys they were out working in the fields or doing other manual Labour. If women can work and own property then why is there a requirement for men to have to have a job, house, and car? Couldn't he just live with you and help around the house and take care of the kids(or help around the house if no kids are present)? Just cause you don't have those things doesn't mean the person is irresponsible or lazy, maybe the workforce just isn't for them.


What I find funny is her resentment tone; as if unemployment is often a choice.



hurtloam
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,748
Location: Eyjafjallajökull

22 Feb 2020, 2:00 am

AquaineBay wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
AquaineBay wrote:
Also think of this, Men have to have a stable job, a car, own their own home(or at least rent it). Why do women not have to know how to cook, clean, take care of the kids, basically be a stay at home mom. To me if a woman is not suppose to stay at home anymore as a requirement than a man should not have to have a job as a requirement. If having a stable job is a requirement for men than women in general are shooting themselves in the foot by being in the workforce cause for every job a woman has that's a job that a man could be working and could have a house, a car, better grooming habits, more hobbies, etc.


Why shouldn't men know how to cook clean and take care of kids (if they want a family)?

This argument doesn't make any sense to me.

A man who wants a responsible partner would do well to find himself a woman who is responsible enough to hold down a job.


The argument behind this is that back in the day a man had to have a stable job, own his own place, and a car because women could not work, couldn't own any property, and(well cars didn't exist back then).

Men weren't trained to cook, clean, or take care of kids cause as boys they were out working in the fields or doing other manual Labour. If women can work and own property then why is there a requirement for men to have to have a job, house, and car? Couldn't he just live with you and help around the house and take care of the kids(or help around the house if no kids are present)? Just cause you don't have those things doesn't mean the person is irresponsible or lazy, maybe the workforce just isn't for them.


Very few people enjoy their jobs. We're tired, but we drag ourselves out of bed every morning and work because we want a roof over our heads and we want to eat and we don't feel entitled to a free ride off of anyone else.

The workforce not "being for them" is the very definition of lazy.

Women didn't work because they weren't "supposed" to or weren't accepted in certain roles. They were just expected to have children and stay home. Those were women in families with money.

It's not the same as deciding to stay home. Your argument is a false equivalency.

A lot of working class women did in fact work, in factories, as maids, in the fields, as seamstresses. They had to. Even the children worked, up chimneys, in the fields, down mines.



hurtloam
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,748
Location: Eyjafjallajökull

22 Feb 2020, 2:03 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
AquaineBay wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
AquaineBay wrote:
Also think of this, Men have to have a stable job, a car, own their own home(or at least rent it). Why do women not have to know how to cook, clean, take care of the kids, basically be a stay at home mom. To me if a woman is not suppose to stay at home anymore as a requirement than a man should not have to have a job as a requirement. If having a stable job is a requirement for men than women in general are shooting themselves in the foot by being in the workforce cause for every job a woman has that's a job that a man could be working and could have a house, a car, better grooming habits, more hobbies, etc.


Why shouldn't men know how to cook clean and take care of kids (if they want a family)?

This argument doesn't make any sense to me.

A man who wants a responsible partner would do well to find himself a woman who is responsible enough to hold down a job.


The argument behind this is that back in the day a man had to have a stable job, own his own place, and a car because women could not work, couldn't own any property, and(well cars didn't exist back then).

Men weren't trained to cook, clean, or take care of kids cause as boys they were out working in the fields or doing other manual Labour. If women can work and own property then why is there a requirement for men to have to have a job, house, and car? Couldn't he just live with you and help around the house and take care of the kids(or help around the house if no kids are present)? Just cause you don't have those things doesn't mean the person is irresponsible or lazy, maybe the workforce just isn't for them.


What I find funny is her resentment tone; as if unemployment is often a choice.


It can be for a minority of people. I have a friend who's husband refused to work after she married him. She carried him for years till he finally died. She should have left, but he manipulated and gaslighted her and her self esteem was shot and she saw no way out. Her youth was wasted.



The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 44
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 33,664
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

22 Feb 2020, 2:20 am

hurtloam wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
AquaineBay wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
AquaineBay wrote:
Also think of this, Men have to have a stable job, a car, own their own home(or at least rent it). Why do women not have to know how to cook, clean, take care of the kids, basically be a stay at home mom. To me if a woman is not suppose to stay at home anymore as a requirement than a man should not have to have a job as a requirement. If having a stable job is a requirement for men than women in general are shooting themselves in the foot by being in the workforce cause for every job a woman has that's a job that a man could be working and could have a house, a car, better grooming habits, more hobbies, etc.


Why shouldn't men know how to cook clean and take care of kids (if they want a family)?

This argument doesn't make any sense to me.

A man who wants a responsible partner would do well to find himself a woman who is responsible enough to hold down a job.


The argument behind this is that back in the day a man had to have a stable job, own his own place, and a car because women could not work, couldn't own any property, and(well cars didn't exist back then).

Men weren't trained to cook, clean, or take care of kids cause as boys they were out working in the fields or doing other manual Labour. If women can work and own property then why is there a requirement for men to have to have a job, house, and car? Couldn't he just live with you and help around the house and take care of the kids(or help around the house if no kids are present)? Just cause you don't have those things doesn't mean the person is irresponsible or lazy, maybe the workforce just isn't for them.


What I find funny is her resentment tone; as if unemployment is often a choice.


It can be for a minority of people. I have a friend who's husband refused to work after she married him. She carried him for years till he finally died. She should have left, but he manipulated and gaslighted her and her self esteem was shot and she saw no way out. Her youth was wasted.



And you, AS women, are a minority too; a very tiny percentage of female population. ;)

I am currently living in a place with 40% unemployment, https://www.the961.com/news/final-leban ... n-released
I am employed but I would flip out if I hear women complain about men’s unemployment; it is very rarely a choice for men; and anyone may become unemployed overnight.



The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 44
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 33,664
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

22 Feb 2020, 2:24 am

hurtloam, a lot women still choose to be housewives/stay-at-home, even in the advanced countries; even when they hold degrees.

Why only if the man stays at home then suddenly the woman becomes “carrying him for years... oh poor her”, while the millions of men who take care of their housewives are not “carrying them for years... oh poor them”?

The manipulation and gaslighting thing has nothing to do with the work status.



hurtloam
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,748
Location: Eyjafjallajökull

22 Feb 2020, 3:53 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
hurtloam, a lot women still choose to be housewives/stay-at-home, even in the advanced countries; even when they hold degrees.

Why only if the man stays at home then suddenly the woman becomes “carrying him for years... oh poor her”, while the millions of men who take care of their housewives are not “carrying them for years... oh poor them”?

The manipulation and gaslighting thing has nothing to do with the work status.


It's about his attitude. He was an all round dud. There is a definate difference between losers who won't work ( and he would not) and those who can't find work, you are correct. But I live somewhere with low unemployment. Every one I know has a job, apart from retired people and those with illnesses.

Some guys are definitely carrying lazy women though. That's true.

Where I am I don't know many married women who don't also work, who don't have pre-schoolers to look after. I can't think of one.

Wait I thought of one, she's a dud, not just because of that, but her whole bad attitude. There's a definite link to bad attitude and will fully unemployed.



hurtloam
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,748
Location: Eyjafjallajökull

22 Feb 2020, 4:01 am

Some guys like the status of keeping a wife. I do think the last guy I dated is like that. I wasn't femininely employed enough for him. My job wasn't menial enough. He likes status. His status.

And that's why I am glad he rejected me. I'm not status oriented. I'm just a grafter getting on with things.



AquaineBay
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Apr 2017
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,022
Location: Houston, Texas

22 Feb 2020, 2:51 pm

So Hurtloam I'll ask you this: Do you think women should be held to those same requirements as men? If she doesn't meet them that she should work on herself until she does before attempting to date?


_________________
Autism is a disorder not a personality trait!

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
and Wisdom to know the difference."


hurtloam
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,748
Location: Eyjafjallajökull

23 Feb 2020, 12:18 am

AquaineBay wrote:
So Hurtloam I'll ask you this: Do you think women should be held to those same requirements as men? If she doesn't meet them that she should work on herself until she does before attempting to date?


Yes I absolutely do.

It's hypocritical to expect something of someone else that one is not willing to do oneself.



Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,278
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

23 Feb 2020, 12:26 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
hurtloam, a lot women still choose to be housewives/stay-at-home, even in the advanced countries; even when they hold degrees.

Why only if the man stays at home then suddenly the woman becomes “carrying him for years... oh poor her”, while the millions of men who take care of their housewives are not “carrying them for years... oh poor them”?

The manipulation and gaslighting thing has nothing to do with the work status.


Well the only real issue I can see with a stay at home parent, at least here in the U.S is with one staying at home they might not make the income to make ends meet. Like gone are the days a single person working can afford themselves a house. But outside of that I see nothing wrong with having a stay at home parent or partner, like idk if they want to do the housework and stay around to care for the kids does seem ideal just one partner could go earn the bread so to speak. That said I don't think it should be a role designated to a specific sex, like I see nothing wrong wit a situation where the wife/mother makes most of the money and the dad sticks around raising the kids and diong the general house cleaning...or the guy could work and the woman could do that.

But currently at least where I live in the U.S its hard to afford a place to live unless you and your partner are both working and even then it is difficult. I can't even see how people have kids here...like I don't see how me and my boyfriend could support another mouth to feed even if we did want one.


_________________
Tis the time to melt the Ice.


Mona Pereth
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Sep 2018
Gender: Female
Posts: 9,077
Location: New York City (Queens)

23 Feb 2020, 10:14 am

AquaineBay wrote:
Also think of this, Men have to have a stable job, a car, own their own home(or at least rent it). Why do women not have to know how to cook, clean, take care of the kids, basically be a stay at home mom. To me if a woman is not suppose to stay at home anymore as a requirement than a man should not have to have a job as a requirement. If having a stable job is a requirement for men than women in general are shooting themselves in the foot by being in the workforce cause for every job a woman has that's a job that a man could be working and could have a house, a car, better grooming habits, more hobbies, etc.

I'm under the impression that many (though not all) men these days prefer a woman with a steady job too, so that the family as a whole can have more money, and also to avoid having to pay alimony in the event of divorce.


_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.


rick42
Toucan
Toucan

Joined: 20 Jun 2018
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 252

23 Feb 2020, 10:21 am

So basically,the OP believes that AS people(men specifically) need to change who they are and become"normal" with great social skills to be considered "dateable"? Perhaps this is why many AS people can't get dates because NT women expect perfection and we usually don't have great social skills.She must don't understand that we tend to struggle more socially compared to the average population.



Last edited by rick42 on 23 Feb 2020, 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

Karamazov
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Mar 2012
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,979
Location: Rural England

23 Feb 2020, 10:48 am

^ indeed: the real question is: what qualities and character traits make for an NT woman who is psychologically capable of sharing her life with an AS man, to what extent can any given AS man know how to recognise these, what is the best approach to finding such a woman, and winning her heart if one does?

But that’s a big question made up of lots of little questions with no singular set answer that will work for everyone.

(And let’s not forget all the AS women who want love and companionship)

(additionally, what about non-hetero AS men & women?)

I think the OP’s desire to help, which I see no reason to doubt as genuine, would be better served by engaging with those of us who are lonely for love on a case-by-case basis, rather than delivering a big general list, which clearly has not worked out in practice as hoped.



Mona Pereth
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Sep 2018
Gender: Female
Posts: 9,077
Location: New York City (Queens)

23 Feb 2020, 11:02 am

B19 wrote:
None of this seems to address the double communication problem which can be a significant barrier to establishing a relationship.

AS people say what they mean, and if they say "Let's have dinner some time" that is literally what they mean. NTs will say things like this in order to flick people off, without any literal integrity.

NT people will say, "Yes, that's interesting" when they mean exactly the opposite. AS people will interpret such a comment as genuine, and think "she/he is interested in that" and be encouraged to continue.

These are just two small examples of many such examples of talking past each other.

All the grooming in the world doesn't address this core problem of double communication. Until either NTs decide to say what they mean or AS people learn to decode the insincere NT messages. However generally NTs expect AS people to make the accommodations, not themselves, to expect AS people to act like pretend NTs. NTs basically don't care about people different from themselves in social situations (nor work situations).

So "disabled" people are admonished or excluded or ignored for being disabled, and again, no grooming product will fix the general character of NT expectations and "rules". Suggesting that appearances etc will fix this is going to set up people to fail.

Very important points.

Tiana, do you have any comments on the above?


_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.


The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 44
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 33,664
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

23 Feb 2020, 12:45 pm

rick42 wrote:
So basically,the OP believes that AS people(men specifically) need to change who they are and become"normal" with great social skills to be considered "dateable"? Perhaps this is why many AS people can't get dates because NT women expect perfection and we usually don't have great social skills.She must don't understand that we tend to struggle more socially compared to the average population.


But here's the thing, most average to good-looking NT women don't care if you make it or not, regardless if your reasons are justified. They have plenty of other options to pick from, options that can reach to hundreds thanks to social media and dating apps.