Looks, Intellect, moral character, interests, personality?

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You will be searching for a VERY long time indeed. If you don't maintain the woman's interest level in you, then she will begin to think of looking elsewhere. For NT women this behaviour is not a choice. I suspect that an AS woman's attention would also begin to wonder though they would be less likely to actually cheat or go behind your back. Perhaps your own maturity needs attention, in that you need to realise that only constant maintenance of a relationship will make it last.

How can people honestly put looks last? Are you saying you'd be satisfied with a hunch-backed scholar?

Looks draw your eye, personality draws your ear, interests establish conversation, intelligence draws the conversation, moral character establishes longevity and lastability.

I can't speak for techstep, but I assumed that he would take care to do his best to meet the needs of his beloved. But we can't always make things perfect for the one we love and temptation will always occur. It's best to align ourselves with people who have made the conscious decision to be ruled by their wills, not by their emotions, when it comes to fidelity.

I know what it's like to have the temptation to wander. My first "husband" (sorry, I have to put it in quotes because he gives the word a bad name) was a sociopath. It tires me to detail what he did, but rest assured that he was habitually quite evil. When other men treated me nicely, thoughts would flit into my head, like "I bet he wouldn't do xyz. I bet he'd be nice to me." I'd immediately push those thoughts away, because I wanted to be true to my values. A more reactive woman under the same pressures would have flirted or had an affair (emotional or otherwise) and felt justified in doing so.

Most people won't encounter such intense hardships in their relationships, but even little hardships or certain types of common circumstances can trigger those sorts of tempting thoughts. A mature individual knows that doing the right thing isn't always going to feel good or be immediately rewarding.

Precisely! Looks aren't everything, but they tend to begin the process. Ultimately, there will need to be much more to create something deep and meaningful.

But it's also true that there are cases in which getting to know someone reveals a certain chemistry that wasn't originally present when you were going on looks alone.

I know that for me sometimes a winning personality can increase someone's handsomeness quotient.

But Adonis himself couldn't get close to me if he were disgusting on the inside.

That's why many people rank physical attractiveness below personality. Sure, it has got to be there. But the standards may be less rigid and more forgiving in this category than in some others.

(edited for spelling. my keyboard is broken and it's ruining my groove )

Last edited by gwenevyn on 04 Aug 2007, 10:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ok let me add to what I was saying. There are degrees of love, people have breaking thresholds where the degree of love is such that it dips below the point of no return. It is expected that the degree of love during a couple's relationship will oscillate over time. Lets say that the breaking threshold is 50% interest. You want to stay in the 55-95% range indefinately. This is the ideal. 100% is really not possible and when you get to 55% there is massive amount of maintenance work needed in order for the survival of the relationship.

I think Gwenevyn, that you were teetering on the 55-65% range for a long time (from your post). You are not supposed to spank yourself for thinking that maybe things could be better with a non-sociopath. Anyways, I don't want to make too many assumptions about your experiences. The value people should aim to hold is that once you dip below 50%, you tell the person you have lost all interest and you end the relationship. So when all interest is lost, end it, and then look to engage in something better. Unfortunately many people stay in bad relationships for one reason or another and will engage in infidelity.

Well, I think it's partly a question of definitions. I'd refer to those feelings as attraction or affection, not love. Love, in my book, is a decision you make once and choose to renew constantly. It's nice when those feelings are present, and everything should be done to encourage them... but the number of butterflies in your stomach isn't a reliable indicator of the presence of love.

In situations such as mine, in which a marriage was entered into under false pretenses (in my case he was pretending to be somebody he was not... and if I'd known who he really was, I wouldn't have ever gone on a single date much less made vows and a baby), leaving is acceptable. But I had to make certain what was really going on first, because I don't think vows should be broken. And until I could be sure of the underlying reality of his motives, it was my responsibility to be true to my word.

In a real marriage (in which both partners have goodwill toward the other) I don't think that failure is an acceptable option when the initial glow dissipates. What should be done is to work at it until the good feelings are regained.

Mere dating is a whole 'nother deal. I wholeheartedly support leaving at the first red flag. I think people are generally too reluctant to end boyfriend/girlfriend relationships that need to die. Maybe they're scared there's nothing better.

I put it last, because honestly it is last.

I always have a long term view when it comes to looks. And when I am evaluating someone, long term is always on my mind... it may be creepy... and not what you are supposed to do... but it's what I do.

When thinking long term, people get old. Old people don't look as good as young people. What if the years are not kind... will this cause me to run away. Of course not.

What about a freak accident, they lose an eye... arm gets amputated... whatever. I go through the same process... I think you get my idea...

Physical features aren't really the biggest issue long term... so they aren't really the biggest issue short term.

But looks are needed, but what I look for is more in how they smile... subtle movements that inform me of her character. Cute shyness. Things that are more or less time independent.

Attraction starts in my head... then works outwards. Perhaps my approach is more feminine... but I can't see anything but trouble when looks aren't the lowest valued quality.

Pandora,

Na, I'm not depressed as I'm afraid. I lack fear when I'm depressed (which has been all of once in my life).

calandale,

Jealousy is a bastard.

gwenevyn,

Because beauty means naught to the beast.

To be serious for once (well, I was serious, but perhaps it only pertained to this thread if you were in my head):

Loyalty (we walk through heaven and hell together)
Accepting and understanding of which I am (love who I am, not whom I'm not)
Both are reciprocated to "you" because that's who I am

That's it. (Which might just be the hardest list listed anywhere.)

Pugs,

In saying you have a long-term view when it comes to looks, does this mean that you have a long-term view when it comes to relationships (as in, you treat them all as if they will last forever)? I ask because it usually takes a long time for people to get old

But I find it refreshing when people can honestly say that they don't place heavy weighting on looks. I suppose these days couples treat eachother more as fashion accessories (in my view), rather than a unique mind wrapped in some skin. Blame it on the external nature of Western society.

Well once I get married of course, that's what I am looking for... someone I can connect with to spend the rest of my life together.

I could go crazy if I am with someone that doesn't have a good personality... someone's physical appearance doesn't have quite the same affect.

Do you think it wasn't that way in the past, or in other places?

I don't mean that in a challenging way. I'm just curious what you think and why.

I was supposing that things really haven't changed much in this way. Though I do also suppose that in more ancient times or in poorer cultures, one's socioeconomic position or family ties may be more important than looks in determining a match. But it seems to me that a good-looking woman has always been a status symbol for wealthy men throughout the ages.

Is it wrong to treat someone as a mind accessory?

Haha!

Bringing along a braniac date to make oneself look smarter at a cocktail party.... now there's an idea few men have thought of!

I would say something similar. Sure, I care about looks, but not as much as other things. And I also notice that unattractive girls with good perosnalities seem more attractive if they have good personailities.

That's different. No one can see your mind, especially not from afar.

Gwen, I neglected to say 'moreso now'. But in those days, the inequality between men and women were greater, societal roles more lopsided and so it was more accepted. Women have gotten smarter, more independent, and so I feel relationships should reflect this. Instead, all I see is women getting as drunk as men and being just us whore-ish and shallow.